Synthetic Oil

[Rod Knock]

That actually confirms my suspision; my truck "tugs" more when going in/out of MDS with RL 5w-30 than it did with RL 5w-20. Probably due to the thicker viscosity, but since I disable MDS all the time anyway I couldn't care less.

I wonder if that's not due to the VVT. I was told by someone who works on HEMIs (rebuilds them) and runs a machine shop that thicker oil will mess with the VVT. I asked him about MDS, and he said that's not what I have to worry about. The VVT is. My experience was that with 5W-20, my HEMI fell snappier and fuel mileage improved. Because of my 180F t-stat and shutters, Red Line 5W-30 runs thick in my HEMI. Strangely enough, I don't get the tugging. Also, you have a newer truck. Mine is 2016, built in 2015. They might have updated the programming. Otherwise, Red Line 5W-30 won't hurt the HEMI.

 

[Hemi395]

Interesting, my truck goes into/out of MDS much smoother on RL 5w30 than any other 20wt oil I've ran, RL 5w20 included. On any 20wt oil I've ran it feels like a small transmission shift but on RL 5w30 or 0w30 I can hear the transition, but I barely feel it...

 

[Travis8352]

@Burla @Hemi395 @HEMIMANN @FalconHemi

I havnt watched it yet but i figured id share it here as i find any gale banks video to be very informative

How synthetic motor oil is made | Part 1 of 4

As Gale Banks prepares to debut the new Banks diesel crate engine program, he wants to know as much as he can about synthetic motor oil. How is it made, what...

m.youtube.com

 

[Lufty]

FYI,There’s a thread on Bobs that Redline reformulated all their oils to sn+/sp. There’s a link to a new catalog/brochure explaining all the changes and updated data sheets.

 

[Rod Knock]

Interesting, my truck goes into/out of MDS much smoother on RL 5w30 than any other 20wt oil I've ran, RL 5w20 included. On any 20wt oil I've ran it feels like a small transmission shift but on RL 5w30 or 0w30 I can hear the transition, but I barely feel it...

That's interesting because Red Line 5W-30 and 0W-30 are worlds apart different oils, while Red Line 5W-20 and 5W-30 share the same building blocks.

On another note, I compiled a list of more exciting oils that someone might want to run in a HEMI. I brought this up before about PUP 0W-40 SRT. However, no one seemed interested because I didn't make my argument well. This super low HTFS number of 2.17 for PUP 0W-40 SRT, along with almost 11% VI, looks like SOPUS blended this as a fuel economy oil for FCA's performance cars and sold it. As a "high-performance oil." Let's just say that I wouldn't run this in an SRT, let alone in a Hellcat or an HD truck. Even Valvoline EP 5W-30 has a higher HTHS. Then look at Pennzoil Platinum 0W-40, Mobil 1 0W-40, Castrol EDGE Euro 0W-40, and finally Red Line 0W-40. These oils, including Red Line, have almost identical HTHS numbers. For an ILSAC oil, Schaeffers looks mighty good. I didn't include the entire calculator (Gokhan on BITOG made it, and I just plugged in some more numbers), but Mobil 1, Mobil 1 EP, PP, and PUP don't look that "hot." Mobil 1 Truck & SUV are pathetic, with the 5W-30 version having an HTHS of ~1.75, and TGMO something along the lines of ~1.6-1.7 (yes, the magic oil with ~700ppm of Moly). I noticed that the crappier the HTHS number, the more friction modifiers these oils have, except for Red Line and High-Performance Lubricants, which have gobs of Moly regardless of viscosity.

 

[Rod Knock]

FYI,There’s a thread on Bobs that Redline reformulated all their oils to sn+/sp. There’s a link to a new catalog/brochure explaining all the changes and updated data sheets.

Not all of them are API SN+/SP, just some of them. Being API isn't their focus.

 

[Lufty]

Ok let me rephrase… all the high performance line of Redline is now sn+/sp or seems to be reformulated?

Better?

 

[Rod Knock]

Ok let me rephrase… all the high performance line of Redline is now sn+/sp or seems to be reformulated?

Better?

All of it seems to be reformulated, but not all of it is SN+/SP. Just look at the table below:

 

[Lufty]

Your right but they are reformulated with some having different noack , pour points, etc. The 0w-30 I’m using went from 3.4 to 3.3 hths and a 11.7 to 10.8 CT’s at 100C and the pour point is now -48C. So they did make a change

 

[Rod Knock]

Your right but they are reformulated with some having different noack , pour points, etc. The 0w-30 I’m using went from 3.4 to 3.3 hths and a 11.7 to 10.8 CT’s at 100C and the pour point is now -48C. So they did make a change

Yes, they updated all of them. Seems like the 5W-X and higher got better high-temperature resistance, while 0W-X now has better cold flow characteristics. Motor oil is a compromise, and you can't have it all in one oil... The cheapest oil that's almost perfect for a HEMI is Mobil 1 FS 0W-40. PP Euro 0W-40 is also a great choice, as is Castrol EDGE Euro 0W-40. These will flow well year-round and provide good protection. Of course, Red Line is in a league of its own.

 

[Lufty]

Hopefully these changes are for the better and Redline still gives the same or better results in quieting some Hemis. Ours are very quiet on Redline. Ill let you oil gurus hash it out if these new formulas are for the better or not.

 

[Rod Knock]

Hopefully these changes are for the better and Redline still gives the same or better results in quieting some Hemis. Ours are very quiet on Redline. Ill let you oil gurus hash it out if these new formulas are for the better or not.

Fixing the passenger-side exhaust manifold bolt is what quieted down my HEMI, damn that was misleading. I'll be honest with you, I ran PYB 5W-20 (dealer), M1 5W-20, Castrol EDGE EP 5W-20, M1 FS 0W-40, Castrol EDGE 0W-40, and Red Line 5W-30, and my HEMI sounded the same on all of them. The placebo effect was strong though with each and every one of them, especially with M1 0W-40 and Red Line 5W-30... well, with Red Line it was the strongest since I spent the most on it. However, it still sounds like a sewing machine, as it should, due to those huge rocker arms under the valve covers. The only difference I noticed was a drop in fuel mileage as I went thicker, most drastic with Red Line 5W-30, and some VVT lag, again, as I went thicker. I also run a 180F t-stat and deleted my grille shutter, so running a thicker oil no longer benefits me. The other thing I noticed was higher idle oil pressure as I went thicker, the highest being with Red Line 5W-30.

 

[Burla]

Hopefully these changes are for the better and Redline still gives the same or better results in quieting some Hemis. Ours are very quiet on Redline. Ill let you oil gurus hash it out if these new formulas are for the better or not.

Best news ever, I have been waiting for redline to get that di market, thanks for the update. Now guys with DI Turbos you have the greatest possible oil to keep away lspi, you have super high moly which is a lspi quencher, and now low CA which will keep deposits low, with esters also a good base oil for lspi. Furthermore, Mag is likely a little better then CA anyway, so no problem with this formula for hemi's. As for 0w30, I know a guy who will test it for us

I would like to thank redline as well, no doubt I wouldn't own this truck a decade later if it wasnt for this butter smooth no knocking hemi, just like 80% of the guys who run it. If not for redline, this ram would be long gone and a 90's ford would be sitting in my driveway. Thanks to the voodoo, I literally hope to drive this 20 years more. Never thought an oil could do this, but it can.

 

[Burla]

BTW, as a bonus redline HP also has higher zinc then any api oil by 400 points, and that is also an lspi quencher. So man, the picture just got perfectly clear for someone looking for the best possible oil for di turbos. Nothing comes close. zinc and lspi

 

[Travis8352]

Best news ever, I have been waiting for redline to get that di market, thanks for the update. Now guys with DI Turbos you have the greatest possible oil to keep away lspi, you have super high moly which is a lspi quencher, and now low CA which will keep deposits low, with esters also a good base oil for lspi. Furthermore, Mag is likely a little better then CA anyway, so no problem with this formula for hemi's. As for 0w30, I know a guy who will test it for us

I would like to thank redline as well, no doubt I wouldn't own this truck a decade later if it wasnt for this butter smooth no knocking hemi, just like 80% of the guys who run it. If not for redline, this ram would be long gone and a 90's ford would be sitting in my driveway. Thanks to the voodoo, I literally hope to drive this 20 years more. Never thought an oil could do this, but it can.

I believe magnesium is better than calcium. Mobil 1 used to use way more magnesium than they do even today if you look at old uoas from the 98-02 years and im sure due to cost they cut magneisum when exxon entered the picture

 

[HEMIMANN]

I'm not understanding why Red Line would care about SN+ / SP? Is new owner Phillips 66 after the base consumer market? That's where the small GDI turbo motors are.

 

[Hemi395]

I'm not understanding why Red Line would care about SN+ / SP? Is new owner Phillips 66 after the base consumer market? That's where the small GDI turbo motors are.

I would say this is 100% the reason. Not sure why the care about it when the have the api friendly Prof Series tho....

 

[HEMIMANN]

I would say this is 100% the reason. Not sure why the care about it when the have the api friendly Prof Series tho....

If this is the case, how can they market it without adding the API starburst symbol and SAE quality grade? Vehicle manufacturers require these for warranty.

 

[Travis8352]

If this is the case, how can they market it without adding the API starburst symbol and SAE quality grade? Vehicle manufacturers require these for warranty.

My guess is their not api certified and their just putting sp/sn+ as sort of a guideline to what the add pack could be (high magnesium/low calcium)

 

[Rod Knock]

I'm not understanding why Red Line would care about SN+ / SP? Is new owner Phillips 66 after the base consumer market? That's where the small GDI turbo motors are.

I would say this is 100% the reason. Not sure why the care about it when the have the api friendly Prof Series tho....

That's wrong, as they already offer the Professional line, and I see no evidence that Red Line is dublicating products. Their core market is enthusiasts. BMW enthusiasts are one of their biggest customers. There are many BMWs now with small T-GDI engines. Many Red Line employees are BMW enthusiasts as well. Other manufacturers make sports cars with small T-GDI engines as well. And that's just one example, as amongst it's many faults, LSPI was not a problem for RedLine. I believe that the few SN+/SP ratings are purely incidental, based on the HTHS numbers and viscosity. To be precise, only 0W-16, 0W-20, and 0W-30 are SP rated. And as they are not API licensed, they are not fully API compliant either. Red Line had bigger issues and I hope they fixed those by now. Poor soot handling and oxidative thickening were two of those issues, and I hope they are gone completely with this reformulation. I see this as a positive, and as a sign that they are striving to improve their products. Values like a NOACK of 4 are unheard of, so they are making some big moves. Anyone who cares about their engine will have a good reason to choose them over the competition. I like this, and though it took me a long time to warm up to Red Line, I will stick with them now and will probably use their oil in other vehicles as well.