Synthetic Oil

[Burla]

that sucks, I might consider a bypass?

 

[HEMIMANN]

Meh, there aren't that many of "us" (heavy duty + Hemi guys), and the two longer filters I mentioned help. I'm good. Just trying to help provide complete info for the few of us odd ducks out there.

Here's the pic I posted in Oil Filter Thread:
(note they already put a sleeve protector on the rad hose anticipating it was probably going to rub on the stock oil filter diameter).

 

[Burla]

Meh, there aren't that many of "us" (heavy duty + Hemi guys), and the two longer filters I mentioned help. I'm good. Just trying to help provide complete info for the few of us odd ducks out there.

Here's the pic I posted in Oil Filter Thread:
(note they already put a sleeve protector on the rad hose anticipating it was probably going to rub on the stock oil filter diameter).

View attachment 486565

now I see why you like the 20-500 so much, on that engine it looks to be a better choice. For anyone wanting to know the quality of the 500 filter, the last few pages on oil filter thread that was the filter they tested. Was the second best filter they tested for filtration and other factors.

 

[turkeybird56]

fyi.....when I photoged the filter housing, and ran my finger in there, there was no clearance between the oil filter cannister and the lower radiator hose on my truck. I didn't buy an oversize diameter and try to squish in the hose, knowing driving vibration would abrade the hose.

I checked the size ref Fram Ultra XG 10060 and Mopar 4892339ab (stock) and they are almost identical. Not know the size on the larger RP. SO I do not know exact fitment and whether work without any hindrances. Maybe a filter relocation is the best of both worlds, LOL. I have even seen PPL that do relocate and run 2 filters in line. Just thinking out loud, always skerry.

 

[tjfdesmo]

Minor caveat: heavy duty truck Hemi engines don't fit larger diameter oil filters - oil filter adapter is turned 90 degrees from engine block pointing forward toward the radiator, and filter body runs just under the lower radiator hose. Royal Purple 20-820 and Fram Ultra XG2 are likely too large.

The next biggest oversize filters are Royal Purple 20-500 and Fram Ultra XG10575. I have had good success fitting these. They are the same diameter as the little factory filters, but longer.

I ran the SRT filters on my 2015 6.4 without issue, but I don't know if the 20-820 has different dimensions. Also, my buddy is running the SRT on his 2019 6.4.

 

[HEMIMANN]

I ran the SRT filters on my 2015 6.4 without issue, but I don't know if the 20-820 has different dimensions. Also, my buddy is running the SRT on his 2019 6.4.

Probably does since Royal Purple doesn't make Mopar, as far as I'm aware. Don't know what the diameter of the SRT filter is, I basically haven't considered it based on the discussions in the Oil Filter Thread.

 

[HEMIMANN]

I checked the size ref Fram Ultra XG 10060 and Mopar 4892339ab (stock) and they are almost identical. Not know the size on the larger RP. SO I do not know exact fitment and whether work without any hindrances. Maybe a filter relocation is the best of both worlds, LOL. I have even seen PPL that do relocate and run 2 filters in line. Just thinking out loud, always skerry.

I put a size comparison post in the Oil Filter Thread last summer.

 

[turkeybird56]

I put a size comparison post in the Oil Filter Thread last summer.

OK, did not feel like reading a kazillion pages, I usually try and keep up when U or Burla post something new

 

[HEMIMANN]

OK, did not feel like reading a kazillion pages, I usually try and keep up when U or Burla post something new

U can sort by searching my posts. Then list is short.

 

[ramffml]

I'm ready to try a different oil. Running Redline 5w-30 in summer and now 0w-30 in winter, and both oils, with either the RP 20-820 or Fram Ultra oil filter, give me a startup rattle on a second cold start.

So well below freezing, start truck, drive 5 minutes turn off, come out of store half hour later and start truck, now I have this horrid rattle that can be heard clear across the parking lot for 2 seconds. It's extremely embarrassing even if the problem is somewhat benign (I'm not convinced it's a good thing, despite Ram saying it's OK).

I know other hemi owners have this and don't care, so call me crazy, spoiled, unappreciative, or just plain stupid, but my expectations are higher than that and if can't fix this I'm going to trash it and get something else.

Originally I was running the 0w-30 with RP filter and had the noise, so I tried the Fram Ultra (without changing oil) and added 1 quart of 5w-30. It didn't do it for a few weeks, but it's doing it again now. It could be just coincidence, as I don't always get my truck as hot every time I hit that store, I use remote start before setting off and sometimes it runs 1 minute the next 8, so maybe the "does it" vs "doesn't do it" is more related to oil temps before turning the truck off and the filter doesn't make a difference? Or maybe I got 2 bad filters in a row?

Anyway, I've seen PUP recommended here a lot, and also Mobil 1 FS 0w-40. I can get the Mobil 1 on sale this week from parts source so that looks like my first test.

What do you all think of this Mobil 1 FS 0w-40:
1) Does it have enough moly?
2) Will it work well for towing in the hot summer months?
3) How does the viscosity compare to RL 5w-30?
3) What am I giving up compared to RL 5w-30?

Also totally open to other suggestions of course, but I need to act within a few days if I want to take advantage of the partsource sale which ends shortly.

 

[Murphy Slaw]

I've had good luck running Amsoil SS for the last few years. Even 5-20.

Some people here po-po it, but others love Amsoil products.

Best of luck

 

[Burla]

I'm ready to try a different oil. Running Redline 5w-30 in summer and now 0w-30 in winter, and both oils, with either the RP 20-820 or Fram Ultra oil filter, give me a startup rattle on a second cold start.

So well below freezing, start truck, drive 5 minutes turn off, come out of store half hour later and start truck, now I have this horrid rattle that can be heard clear across the parking lot for 2 seconds. It's extremely embarrassing even if the problem is somewhat benign (I'm not convinced it's a good thing, despite Ram saying it's OK).

I know other hemi owners have this and don't care, so call me crazy, spoiled, unappreciative, or just plain stupid, but my expectations are higher than that and if can't fix this I'm going to trash it and get something else.

Originally I was running the 0w-30 with RP filter and had the noise, so I tried the Fram Ultra (without changing oil) and added 1 quart of 5w-30. It didn't do it for a few weeks, but it's doing it again now. It could be just coincidence, as I don't always get my truck as hot every time I hit that store, I use remote start before setting off and sometimes it runs 1 minute the next 8, so maybe the "does it" vs "doesn't do it" is more related to oil temps before turning the truck off and the filter doesn't make a difference? Or maybe I got 2 bad filters in a row?

Anyway, I've seen PUP recommended here a lot, and also Mobil 1 FS 0w-40. I can get the Mobil 1 on sale this week from parts source so that looks like my first test.

What do you all think of this Mobil 1 FS 0w-40:
1) Does it have enough moly?
2) Will it work well for towing in the hot summer months?
3) How does the viscosity compare to RL 5w-30?
3) What am I giving up compared to RL 5w-30?

Also totally open to other suggestions of course, but I need to act within a few days if I want to take advantage of the partsource sale which ends shortly.

0w30 redline is changing soon if not already and I don't like the new formula. M1 fs 0w40 is super class oil, stay in grade merc and posrche specs visc in the 12's, but also lower additive to satisfy all the turbo's and diesels. What you are giving up is ester base and heavy additives, both of which can be replaced if you add biotech. I dont know the level of vii's versus 5w30 redline, but I can say because of those stay in grade specs that 0w40 will have less vii's then some similar oils that may not have those requirements of pao. Let us know how it works out. Look up uoa's and voa's if you want to see the minutia.

Can you upload a youtube taken from under engine later? Your symptoms are weird and not typical hemi tick.

 

[ramffml]

0w30 redline is changing soon if not already and I don't like the new formula. M1 fs 0w40 is super class oil, stay in grade merc and posrche specs visc in the 12's, but also lower additive to satisfy all the turbo's and diesels. What you are giving up is ester base and heavy additives, both of which can be replaced if you add biotech. I dont know the level of vii's versus 5w30 redline, but I can say because of those stay in grade specs that 0w40 will have less vii's then some similar oils that may not have those requirements of pao. Let us know how it works out. Look up uoa's and voa's if you want to see the minutia.

Can you upload a youtube taken from under engine later? Your symptoms are weird and not typical hemi tick.

I never had "hemi tick", even now I don't have what most consider "hemi tick". I ran redline because my engine was super clattery and noisy on factory oil and started looking around and found the recommendations here for Redline, which works extremely well in that area. My engine sounds buttery smooth and quiet now when it's warm, I don't have that tick/knock when its idling at hot temp which is the sign of "hemi tick" or lifter/cam failure.

My rattle is from the oil draining out of the hydraulic lifters. It's horrible clatter for 1 to 2 seconds (probably way noisier than the "tick"), and then instant silence. Literally like a light switch goes on/off. It's bad enough that guys walking in the parking lot quite some distance away can hear it when it starts and apologies if it sounds like I'm ranting but I'm not going to accept this as "normal" despite what Ram says (in the manual it says its normal).

Thanks Burla, really appreciate your feedback. I will try M1 with biotech then. I might try to catch a video of it but I'm going to change the oil within a day or two so I might not get another chance to do that.

Should I be worried about the "-40" part of the Mobile 1 oil? I'm comfortable running 30 weight, even RL 30 weight which is apparently a very thick 30 weight, but not sure if going to 40 weight is too far?

 

[Burla]

I never had "hemi tick", even now I don't have what most consider "hemi tick". I ran redline because my engine was super clattery and noisy on factory oil and started looking around and found the recommendations here for Redline, which works extremely well in that area. My engine sounds buttery smooth and quiet now when it's warm, I don't have that tick/knock when its idling at hot temp which is the sign of "hemi tick" or lifter/cam failure.

My rattle is from the oil draining out of the hydraulic lifters. It's horrible clatter for 1 to 2 seconds (probably way noisier than the "tick"), and then instant silence. Literally like a light switch goes on/off. It's bad enough that guys walking in the parking lot quite some distance away can hear it when it starts and apologies if it sounds like I'm ranting but I'm not going to accept this as "normal" despite what Ram says (in the manual it says its normal).

Thanks Burla, really appreciate your feedback. I will try M1 with biotech then. I might try to catch a video of it but I'm going to change the oil within a day or two so I might not get another chance to do that.

Should I be worried about the "-40" part of the Mobile 1 oil? I'm comfortable running 30 weight, even RL 30 weight which is apparently a very thick 30 weight, but not sure if going to 40 weight is too far?

So "super class" 0w40's should just be considered 5w30, if you look at redline 0w40 or amsoil 0w40 they are NOT super class oils, they are built THICK. But, when CAFE started their war on 20 and 30 weight oils, the oil manus to their credit developed super class 0w40's, with the thinnest visc possible for 40 weights and higher quality base oils then their 5w40 and 15 weight 40 oils use in order to stay in grade as best as possible.

redline 0w40- 15.4 operating viscosity
redline 5w30- 12.XX viscosity
m1 FS 0w40- 12.9 operating visc

If you are comfortable with redline 5w30 your choice will likely even be thinner then 5w30 in most of the interval.

 

[zogg]

For what it’s worth, I bought my 2019 classic last year and immediately changed to valvoline 5w20. After a few hundred miles I got the same lifter clatter you got for a few seconds only intermittently. I changed to Royal Purple 5w30 for 3500 miles with similar results. Last week I went wit pennzoil ultra platinum 5w20 and had no rattle since. Seems to run smoother than before. Time will tell.

 

[HEMIMANN]

Why would startup lifter clatter develop after a few hundred miles? I'm not disputing the report, I'm trying to figure out what's going on here.

Is the oil shearing enough where it drains more completely from the lifter body?

 

[zogg]

I have no idea why it takes a few hundred miles to develop lifter clatter. Or at least that was when I first noticed it. I’m pretty particular when I start my truck since my son’s 2015 wiped out his cam at 105,000 miles.

 

[ramffml]

For what it’s worth, I bought my 2019 classic last year and immediately changed to valvoline 5w20. After a few hundred miles I got the same lifter clatter you got for a few seconds only intermittently. I changed to Royal Purple 5w30 for 3500 miles with similar results. Last week I went wit pennzoil ultra platinum 5w20 and had no rattle since. Seems to run smoother than before. Time will tell.

Interesting, did it happen to you when you shut the truck off "cold" vs "hot", or did you not really notice or pay attention to that? For me I only get the startup clatter when starting the engine after the engine was shut off "cold" or mildy cold. If the engine is shut down hot, I never get a rattle the next start, even if it sits for a week.

I'd be interested in trying PUP after M1 if M1 doesn't help, but not at 5w-20, I think that is far too thin for pulling my trailer in the summer and doesn't offer near enough protection.

 

[Rod Knock]

@ramffml FWIW I'm running M1 FS 0W-40 without issues, along with a FRAM FS2 filter (similar to ULTRA XG2). No lifter bleedown even after truck was off for two weeks, and I have to short trip it sometimes. It's running so we'll in fact that I have a feeling that the 8 gallons of RedLine 5W-30 I got will end up in my mother's Santa Fe and the dozen RP 20-820 filter I got will be sold on eBay. And yes, I had lifter bleedown with Red Line 5W-30 as well, and startup rattle. How Red Line became so over-recomended is beyond me. I'd I didn't try it more than once and walked away disappointed it would be one thing, but I spend my own money on it and the results aren't great. I wanted to make sure I'm not crazy, so I asked a friend who owns several high dollar cars, including a Maseratti and a Porsche that he just rebuilt the engine for at home with help from a mutual friend that has a machine shop. He said that Red Line had good marketing, but he doesn't use it at the track because there are far better options like Motul, Driven, Eneos, and Mobil. Thank you for bringing this up. Maybe this Red Line non-sense can finally die down.

 

[Travis8352]

I'm ready to try a different oil. Running Redline 5w-30 in summer and now 0w-30 in winter, and both oils, with either the RP 20-820 or Fram Ultra oil filter, give me a startup rattle on a second cold start.

So well below freezing, start truck, drive 5 minutes turn off, come out of store half hour later and start truck, now I have this horrid rattle that can be heard clear across the parking lot for 2 seconds. It's extremely embarrassing even if the problem is somewhat benign (I'm not convinced it's a good thing, despite Ram saying it's OK).

I know other hemi owners have this and don't care, so call me crazy, spoiled, unappreciative, or just plain stupid, but my expectations are higher than that and if can't fix this I'm going to trash it and get something else.

Originally I was running the 0w-30 with RP filter and had the noise, so I tried the Fram Ultra (without changing oil) and added 1 quart of 5w-30. It didn't do it for a few weeks, but it's doing it again now. It could be just coincidence, as I don't always get my truck as hot every time I hit that store, I use remote start before setting off and sometimes it runs 1 minute the next 8, so maybe the "does it" vs "doesn't do it" is more related to oil temps before turning the truck off and the filter doesn't make a difference? Or maybe I got 2 bad filters in a row?

Anyway, I've seen PUP recommended here a lot, and also Mobil 1 FS 0w-40. I can get the Mobil 1 on sale this week from parts source so that looks like my first test.

What do you all think of this Mobil 1 FS 0w-40:
1) Does it have enough moly?
2) Will it work well for towing in the hot summer months?
3) How does the viscosity compare to RL 5w-30?
3) What am I giving up compared to RL 5w-30?

Also totally open to other suggestions of course, but I need to act within a few days if I want to take advantage of the partsource sale which ends shortly.

Im running the m1 0w40 as well. From what i can tell its slightly thinner than redline at operating temp but thats based off uoas ive seen for both oils. It does contain esters according to analysis done on the russian oil forum and gohkan on bitog. 5-7% is whats estimated for it which i would think is less than redline. It seems their upping the pao for it as well which is a plus. It runs just fine in my truck. Occassionally ive had what your describing with your truck. Its happened when i start it up and shut it off wothin 10 seconds if i have to move the truck in the driveway or something. That has not happened with this oil even when i let the truck sit for 7 days while i was in alaska last summer. However i have never run redline so i cant say its going to be better than redline for you or solve the issue