Thoughts 2nd gen "Dodge ram 3500"

[scippy]

Glad to be in the company of honest opinion & well informed dodge 2nd gen admirers!.....I'm presently in search of (specific) 2002 dodge ram 3500 QC LB DRW or SRW diesel. The body style (to me) is the coolest!.....right now I own a ram 2500 gas 5.9L and it's impossible (for it) to tow my 13K boat & trailer.....The few I've seen specific to my wanting and under 100K miles are not cheap, for instance https://www.ebay.com/itm/2002-Dodge-Ram-3500-/332455401336?vxp=mtr in your opinion is this truck properly priced? and is it well suited to tow my 13k lbs?...thanks, Scippy

 

[dudeman2009]

Personally I think just about all used diesels are overpriced. It's called the diesel tax, just having the magic fuel type instantly doubles or triples the perceived value to a lot of people despite the real increase being less than 80% realistically. Unless of course you find that one special truck that was owned by a level headed person who really loved the truck and didn't beat on it. I can count on two hands the number of diesels over the years i've seen that haven't been ridden hard and put away wet. Personally on a truck that with a gas engine is worth 4k, having a diesel only changes the price by 1-2k, if its in good working order.

This particular truck looks clean, very nice shape body wise. It's clear that whoever owned it cared about it, that alone makes some of that diesel tax worth it.

Being a dually with the 5.9HO, i'd say the price isn't ridiculous, a little high for what i'd pay but something that can be worked with. Personally i'd go about 10-12k on it only because its a dually and harder to find than a regular 5.9, but I don't value the manual trans like some people do so that doesn't affect the price for me at all.

The real question is what do you mean your 2500 wont haul your boat? Does it not have power, sag, are you in the mountains? On flat land and moderate hills your truck should pull that thing decent, it won't fly around but it should certainly handle it. If you don't want to try to find a new truck, you can spend about 3-4k and make yourself a monster that will pull just about anything you can stuff in that boat. Even 2k is enough to really improve what you already have and tow that boat no problem.

 

[scippy]

Thanks for your quick and honest reply!.....Concerning The terrain the boat has been towed along, it's flat no hills mountains or valleys. occasionally slight mountain grade when I tow to lake George (upstate N.Y.) my engine just struggles to get out of low gear & cruise along. I have a 4:10 rear end and the engine (has less than 85K miles & is well taken care of)) but my 5.9L is stock with no improvements. I'm willing to wake up my 5.9L Will a chip help?...what type would be beneficial for my particular engine?...I agree about the inflated price of diesels, but the one listed does look nice, but not thrilled about manual tranny and also would prefer 4x4 which this truck is not. 12K seems fair, but not 15K .....If the same truck were auto & 4x4 I'm surer they'd be asking $20,000

 

[dudeman2009]

Auto isn't rare in that particular build, but i've yet to see a 4x4 dually with a 5.9TD, usually they have beam axles in the front.

Dapepper has a good build sheet in his sig, but to start, since you already have the rear end would be pretty simple. You're looking at an intake a couple options here, throttle body 52mm or bigger, heads, shorty headers, maybe an exhaust but thats more personal preference, 1.7 rockers harland sharp is popular, followed up by a tune, FRP Racing has some canned stuff for most bolt ons. Stay away from HemiFever, you'd be better off putting a fat man in back to push.

 

[scippy]

Auto isn't rare in that particular build, but i've yet to see a 4x4 dually with a 5.9TD, usually they have beam axles in the front.

Dapepper has a good build sheet in his sig, but to start, since you already have the rear end would be pretty simple. You're looking at an intake a couple options here, throttle body 52mm or bigger, heads, shorty headers, maybe an exhaust but thats more personal preference, 1.7 rockers harland sharp is popular, followed up by a tune, FRP Racing has some canned stuff for most bolt ons. Stay away from HemiFever, you'd be better off putting a fat man in back to push.

So in the case of performance improvements my 4:10 rear is a good start?...So my engine needs bigger & better air to breathe? ...thus a throttle body?....What tune should my 5.9 Mag receive?......where to get it, here on the ram board?........I'm looking to go the least investment for the biggest punch, otherwise I would just save this money and put it towards a good used capable tow truck.......thnx, Scippy

 

[dudeman2009]

FRP Tuning has some good stuff on tunes, custom tuning isn't really an option unless you basically pay him to fly to you, or you get down to him. He may not even do custom tuning for anything less than groups anymore though. He does have canned tunes available.

Last I knew you can get a great build for about 3-4k, that is intake (edelbrock makes a decent one, the hughes airgap is pretty good too). A TB at least 52mm, 53 or 54mm is better. 1.7 roller rockers are a small bit, but they help round it out. Shorty headers are just about as good as longtube unless you do other exhaust work to make use of the decreased flow resistance from the long vs short tube. For the heads, you can get a complete head for about 430 per side, edlebrock is about 700 for both.

I'd check out the sigs of some of the guys around here, Dapepper has a great build, Yeret has a good build that is less expensive than Dapeppers but isn't as complete, as well as others.

Also check out some of the build threads on here using the search function, lots of people have done different builds and share their experiences as well as what they would change if they could do it all over.

Overall, if you aren't keen on spending 12-15k on a 15 year old truck, you can massively improve yours for about 20% the cost.

 

[scippy]

FRP Tuning has some good stuff on tunes, custom tuning isn't really an option unless you basically pay him to fly to you, or you get down to him. He may not even do custom tuning for anything less than groups anymore though. He does have canned tunes available.

Last I knew you can get a great build for about 3-4k, that is intake (edelbrock makes a decent one, the hughes airgap is pretty good too). A TB at least 52mm, 53 or 54mm is better. 1.7 roller rockers are a small bit, but they help round it out. Shorty headers are just about as good as longtube unless you do other exhaust work to make use of the decreased flow resistance from the long vs short tube. For the heads, you can get a complete head for about 430 per side, edlebrock is about 700 for both.

I'd check out the sigs of some of the guys around here, Dapepper has a great build, Yeret has a good build that is less expensive than Dapeppers but isn't as complete, as well as others.

Also check out some of the build threads on here using the search function, lots of people have done different builds and share their experiences as well as what they would change if they could do it all over.

Overall, if you aren't keen on spending 12-15k on a 15 year old truck, you can massively improve yours for about 20% the cost.

dudeman2009......gonna take some time to think this one over, but you've been a great help in making me see some different sides to this. (buy used diesel hmmmmm, or mod my present ride) curious what all the suggested improvements would yield? 50, 60, 70 + hp? & how much torque would increase?....remember, I'd be towing 13+K lbs.....if I commit to the performance mods what would be the first order of business?...like what would be the most important first step?......bare with me, I'm a little slow when it comes to wrenching and all things motor wise ....thnx, Scippy

 

[jlbayes]

Oh where to begin. First no 3500 2nd gen was sold as a srw, they were never built. Just keep that in mind in your searching. A 2wd truck is not worth the same money as a 4wd truck. Stay off of ebay. They are even more inflated in prices. I have not paid asking price for either of my trucks.

I do agree with dudeman on modifying your current ride. I did see you mention gearing of your current truck but not what tires on are it?

 

[scippy]

I do agree with dudeman on modifying your current ride. I did see you mention gearing of your current truck but not what tires on are it?

I removed the stock 16" rims & tires and replaced with Hummer rims and larger tires

 

[jlbayes]

There is part of your problem. Your effective gear ratio was changed along with a heavier wheel & tire.

 

[scippy]

There is part of your problem. Your effective gear ratio was changed along with a heavier wheel & tire.

The trucks "before and after" the tire size change really had no impact on the towing (lack) of muscle..........it sucked before and still sucks now!

 

[scippy]

Any of you guys have a "reliable place" to buy a tuner (chip) for the 5.9L gas engine?....need more hp & torque....reason being, almost lost a few $$$ on a scam setup.

 

[dudeman2009]

Any of you guys have a "reliable place" to buy a tuner (chip) for the 5.9L gas engine?....need more hp & torque....reason being, almost lost a few $$$ on a scam setup.

You cannot chip these trucks, they must be tuned with a proper tuner, like an SCT model, X3 or X4, I cant remember which.

 

[dapepper9]

X3 tuner, i run frptuning.com programming and love it. Behaves better than a factory truck in literally every way. Better drivability, more power, better mileage, better towing, better shifting. Do some research and decide whats best for you. Another good place to read on such things are dakotart.com, lotta good info there.

You currently have fairly large tires and not too crazy of gearing. Stepping up in gear or down in tire size are going to help immensely whichever direction you choose though they may be pricy.

As for modifying the truck, Hipotek sells throttle bodies in 52mm and 53mm bores at the best prices around the machine work Richard does there is top notch. Pick up a 52mm, bolt it on and go.

Headers are a nice addition for towing tq as well and CAN be done pretty cheap and easy. Can go nice and cheap with eBay/protuninglab or nice heavy duty stainless with Gibson or JBA. Don't really need longtubes for mild things like this though they are pretty wonderful in my personal and extremely biased opinion. Your local regs on emissions may make that decision for you anyways so figure out what the law allows and how likely you are to be caught if you scribble outside the lines a little bit.

Cotton drop in filter isn't so much a big power adder but it does help a little bit.

And honestly, depending on what you're willing to spend I'd stop there. New intake manifold is another $600 and won't really increase your towing ability enough to justify for that. Sounds killer under throttle vs factory though and much more fun to drive if it's included with everything else. Also if you're really feeling froggy you can do roller rockers from Harland Sharp. They're higher ratio which means more lift from the cam and a couple more degrees of duration, if you dint know what that means no big deal just know it comes out to about 10whp/wtq increase.

Now if I've confused you enough, DON'T MODIFY ANYTHING without doing a good tuneup if it's been awhile and making sure the plenum gasket isn't blown. I skimmed earlier posts in minor detail so i apologize if that hasn't been addressed yet

 

[scippy]

dudeman2009 & dapepper9 Thanks for going slow and breaking it down to where I can understand (slightly lol)......punched in my info at FRP under SCT tuning and can up with canned tuning (without tuning device) for $199.99.....is this a simple plug and play?...gonna check out hipotek for the throttle body (52mm)......understand about the larger tires (still have the stock LT 265/75R16's)

 

[dapepper9]

Mostly plug and play. You'll need the "canned tuning with device" option as you dont have the SCT 3200 X3 programmer already. When you order Ryan will email you the tune and ship you the new device. When you get the device you'll have to install the software on your PC (mac is not compatible) with the disc that comes with. Then you'll have to plug the device into your pc and load the tune from your email onto the device. If you have ANY issues SCT has a customer support line that is absolutely fantastic. They can patch in remotely and get you going as well as talk you through other issues.

Once the tune is on the device you simply plug it into the obd2 port and follow the on screen directions. Pretty much you go to "load tune" and there's an ignition on ignition off cycle it goes through, it tells you when and everything, process takes about 5 minutes total

 

[dapepper9]

Since you still have your stock 265s, one option is to either pick up a cheap set of wheels or if they're still on stock wheels toss em in a corner of the garage or storage or hell in the camper/boat/trailer whatever and swap em before trips

 

[jlbayes]

X3 tuner, i run frptuning.com programming and love it. Behaves better than a factory truck in literally every way. Better drivability, more power, better mileage, better towing, better shifting. Do some research and decide whats best for you. Another good place to read on such things are dakotart.com, lotta good info there.

You currently have fairly large tires and not too crazy of gearing. Stepping up in gear or down in tire size are going to help immensely whichever direction you choose though they may be pricy.

As for modifying the truck, Hipotek sells throttle bodies in 52mm and 53mm bores at the best prices around the machine work Richard does there is top notch. Pick up a 52mm, bolt it on and go.

Headers are a nice addition for towing tq as well and CAN be done pretty cheap and easy. Can go nice and cheap with eBay/protuninglab or nice heavy duty stainless with Gibson or JBA. Don't really need longtubes for mild things like this though they are pretty wonderful in my personal and extremely biased opinion. Your local regs on emissions may make that decision for you anyways so figure out what the law allows and how likely you are to be caught if you scribble outside the lines a little bit.

Cotton drop in filter isn't so much a big power adder but it does help a little bit.

And honestly, depending on what you're willing to spend I'd stop there. New intake manifold is another $600 and won't really increase your towing ability enough to justify for that. Sounds killer under throttle vs factory though and much more fun to drive if it's included with everything else. Also if you're really feeling froggy you can do roller rockers from Harland Sharp. They're higher ratio which means more lift from the cam and a couple more degrees of duration, if you dint know what that means no big deal just know it comes out to about 10whp/wtq increase.

Now if I've confused you enough, DON'T MODIFY ANYTHING without doing a good tuneup if it's been awhile and making sure the plenum gasket isn't blown. I skimmed earlier posts in minor detail so i apologize if that hasn't been addressed yet

They must remap the gov pressure solenoid maps. Wonder if they can do it on the diesels. Or move the over drive and lock up points. Off to email I go.

 

[scippy]

They must remap the gov pressure solenoid maps. Wonder if they can do it on the diesels. Or move the over drive and lock up points. Off to email I go.

Are you saying, in "addition" to all the advice I've gotten so far on a tune for my 5.9L gas engine, I must also do a remap to the gov pressure solenoid maps?

 

[scippy]

Mostly plug and play. You'll need the "canned tuning with device" option as you dont have the SCT 3200 X3 programmer already. When you order Ryan will email you the tune and ship you the new device.

I believe that's another $499 + $199 for just the tune.........things do add up quickly~!
Just wondering, is there any way around implementing the "tune with device" cost?......or is there no other way?