Trying to understand all these capacity numbers

Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. If you click them and make a purchase, we may earn a small commission.

VirtualRAM

Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2014
Posts
30
Reaction score
15
Ram Year
2014 Big Horn
Engine
Hemi 5.7
I'm trying to understand all the numbers RAM publishes for towing, GCWR, etc.

The RAM towing website says The Bighorn, 4x4 QC can carry 1600lbs.

Yet, there's a sticker on the driver's door that says I can carry no more than 1267lbs passengers and cargo. Yet, the sticker says the truck can carry 6 passengers. 6 adult passengers at 200lbs each, leaves 67lbs of cargo.

The RAM towing guide says I can carry 4 passengers (with a small note that RAM considers a passenger 150lbs...Not sure, but I don't know of many 150lb adults in the U.S., especially those who buy big vehicles...) and carry 1035 lbs on top of that, which doesn't add up to the 1267lbs on the door sticker.

Seems like RAM (and I'm assuming GM, Ford, et all) play lots of funny games with these numbers, depending upon where you look.

These half ton trucks are way over marketed on their capacities and toughness, for what the numbers really state they are capable of.

I would bet pretty much every truck heading out on the weekend with the family, cargo, and towing the boat/wheelers/camper/what have you has gone way over the capacities of these vehicles.
 

BoldAdventure

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2014
Posts
1,440
Reaction score
1,061
Location
Airstream, USA
Ram Year
2015
Engine
Hemi 6.4
Seems like RAM (and I'm assuming GM, Ford, et all) play lots of funny games with these numbers, depending upon where you look.

These half ton trucks are way over marketed on their capacities and toughness, for what the numbers really state they are capable of.

I would bet pretty much every truck heading out on the weekend with the family, cargo, and towing the boat/wheelers/camper/what have you has gone way over the capacities of these vehicles.

You are in fact correct. The big three tout out their towing capacity and most people fall for it. Ford right now loves touting the Ecoboost and it's 11000 lbs towing. But that's theoretical under perfect conditions and perfectly configured.

Ford actually does count their driver as 150lbs and includes a full tank of gas in their door sticker.

GM excludes a driver, but includes a full tank of gas.

Anyhow, how you option out your vehicle effects payload. It's not really that they are playing fuzz math on the stickers. It's that the advertising is deceptive.

All the Ram 1500's are rated at 6800lbs GVWR. So the vehicle cannot weight more than that. Longbed, short bed, crew cab, leather, sunroof, rambox, premium sound, all these configuration variables, 4x4 vs 2x4 all effect the change in the vehicles curb weight.

Payload is the vehicle's curb weight minus the GVWR. So if the truck weights 5800lbs then that leaves 1000lbs of payload and cargo. Less options, less weight, more payload. This works fine for work trucks. It's a reality check that stings when you want your truck with all the bells and whistles.

Your truck can fit six passengers sure, but they have to be within the weights. See how all this gets real fuzzy in advertising. If they explained it out to you, most folks would go cross eyed.

And you are right, I'm on a forum of trailer owners and people go cross eyed or get really mad when they figure out their payload numbers and realize while they can tow their trailer easily and often have, that they are in fact overloaded.

There is an ecoboost thread for angry Ford owners, who bought tricked out Platinum Ecoboost's because the Ford Dealer told them it would tow 11K and then discovered that once they hooked up their 8000lbs trailer with 1100lb hitch they were over loaded.

For me personally, I did not want a 2500, not yet anyways. So I had to look hard and get my numbers down on spot to get the options I wanted and just squeeze by. We've got about 280lbs breathing room based on my math, although the scales will be the barer of truth. Not a lot. But getting it done. :favorites13:
 
Last edited:

Andy578

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2014
Posts
1,385
Reaction score
276
Location
Ontario, Canada
Ram Year
2014 Outdoorsman
Engine
Hemi 5.7
You are in fact correct. The big three tout out their towing capacity and most people fall for it. Ford right now loves touting the Ecoboost and it's 11000 lbs towing. But that's theoretical under perfect conditions and perfectly configured.

yep and that's how pretty much everything is rated if they plan to use it in their marketing. this is especially true for fuel economy which is often tested on rollers or perfect conditions
 

xrsman

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 9, 2013
Posts
4,473
Reaction score
1,319
Location
Ontario
Ram Year
2016
Engine
3.0 Ecodiesel
The GCWR on a crew cab 1500 5.7L is between 15,000 and 16,000 lbs. I can't remember the exact number but I saw it on a sales managers Ram training book!
 

swanny297

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 26, 2014
Posts
159
Reaction score
41
Ram Year
2014
Engine
5.7 Hemi
Take your truck to a pilot truck stop fill it with gas and put it on their scale - deduct this weight from your 6900 GVWR and that is how much payload you have. Your tongue weight is also included in your payload and can be calculated at about 12% of the GVWR of a travel trailer and 6% of the GVWR for a boat. Payload will get you before you max out pulling.
 

jadocs

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2014
Posts
689
Reaction score
140
Ram Year
2014
Engine
6.7
Yet, there's a sticker on the driver's door that says I can carry no more than 1267lbs passengers and cargo. Yet, the sticker says the truck can carry 6 passengers. 6 adult passengers at 200lbs each, leaves 67lbs of cargo.


That's correct and is the number you should be using to estimate available payload. As mentioned, how your vehicle is configured (ie factory options) will affect how much you have to play with. So in your case you have 1267lbs to play with (that figure accounts for a 150lb driver and a tank of fuel).

Since I don't know many grown men that weigh 150lbs, you will need to account for the difference in addition to the actual weights of additional passengers/gear. What you have left over will be what your trailer tongue weight cannot exceed.

A lot of people mistakenly assume towing capacity is what's important. Available payload is more important, because you will generally run out of that before anything else.

Hell even the 3/4 tons suck when it comes to payload. Sure it has the capability to tow a house, but you will quickly run out of available payload (how much weight can be ON the truck vs what it is capable of towing).
 

jadocs

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2014
Posts
689
Reaction score
140
Ram Year
2014
Engine
6.7
The GCWR on a crew cab 1500 5.7L is between 15,000 and 16,000 lbs. I can't remember the exact number but I saw it on a sales managers Ram training book!


If the GCWR is in fact 15,000lbs, that just means that the truck plus the trailer cannot exceed 15,000lbs. It has nothing to do with payload. For example, you cannot tow a 5000lb trailer and load an extra 3000+lbs in the truck.
 

BoldAdventure

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2014
Posts
1,440
Reaction score
1,061
Location
Airstream, USA
Ram Year
2015
Engine
Hemi 6.4
Yup, you guys wouldn't believe how much debate and forum rage the subject of payload reality creates on some of the RV and Trailering forums.

Most people are overloaded and don't realize it, because the engine can still pull it. Or they've got a great hitch.

On the Airforums, there are a whole subset of folks towing massively oversized trailers, way beyond payload and capacity and they'll tell you payload doesn't matter all day long, it's all about your hitch setup.

Yup.

Of course at the opposite end is all the guys who think you can't tow with anything less than an international freightliner, and towing with a 1500 is the same as towing with a Honda Civic.

Sorry to thread jack.
 

Attachments

  • parked-540x354.jpg
    parked-540x354.jpg
    85.1 KB · Views: 877

xrsman

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 9, 2013
Posts
4,473
Reaction score
1,319
Location
Ontario
Ram Year
2016
Engine
3.0 Ecodiesel
If the GCWR is in fact 15,000lbs, that just means that the truck plus the trailer cannot exceed 15,000lbs. It has nothing to do with payload. For example, you cannot tow a 5000lb trailer and load an extra 3000+lbs in the truck.
Yes I know what the number means lol. I was throwing it out there in case anyone was wondering what it was. I thought it was useful information to know
 

smurfs_of_war

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2013
Posts
2,116
Reaction score
1,263
Location
Swift Current, Saskatchewan
Ram Year
2020
Engine
Hemi 6.4
On the subject of payload- sorry to re-jack this thread- I just found out that the GVWR of the vehicle is not only decided by the manufacturer, but also by Transport Canada (and the equivelant in the US). It would be interesting to see what criteria they use for this. BoldAdventure is correct- there are two warring factions over the subject. I tend to stay out of it- I am an axle watcher. Those, tire/ rim and GCVWR are the ones I pay attention to since they are actual potential mechanical failure points. It was only in the last few years after getting the forum paranoia that I started to watch payload but that quickly subsided. For me anyways. Not saying my way is the right way, but it's what I do and I stay neutral. I even got spooked when I bought the Ram, but after the first couple trips, I know where I am at and what is easily handled by it.

Anyways, back on topic.
 

BoldAdventure

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2014
Posts
1,440
Reaction score
1,061
Location
Airstream, USA
Ram Year
2015
Engine
Hemi 6.4

Toyota has been using the standard since 2011, the big 3 haven't but claim they will for 2015. Remains to be seen.

They can still cook the numbers however in marketing. Most always taught the biggest number, but really, the biggest number is always dependant on how you configure the truck.

The standards will help. I think the big 3 have been avoiding it because it will reduce their numbers.
 

smurfs_of_war

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2013
Posts
2,116
Reaction score
1,263
Location
Swift Current, Saskatchewan
Ram Year
2020
Engine
Hemi 6.4
Toyota has been using the standard since 2011, the big 3 haven't but claim they will for 2015. Remains to be seen.

They can still cook the numbers however in marketing. Most always taught the biggest number, but really, the biggest number is always dependant on how you configure the truck.

The standards will help. I think the big 3 have been avoiding it because it will reduce their numbers.

I thought I had read somewhere that GM just released their numbers based on this, and they didn't change?
 

WhiteExpress

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2011
Posts
18,185
Reaction score
3,275
Location
Midland, TX
Ram Year
2004
Engine
5.7 Hemi
Toyota has been using the standard since 2011, the big 3 haven't but claim they will for 2015. Remains to be seen.

They can still cook the numbers however in marketing. Most always taught the biggest number, but really, the biggest number is always dependant on how you configure the truck.

The standards will help. I think the big 3 have been avoiding it because it will reduce their numbers.

Ram put out a press release yesterday about adopting this standard for 2015, which didn't change their ratings anywho. :naughty:
 
Top