Why is the cummins soo slow

[SouthTexan]

Since this thread has become a joke anyway...I'm gonna throw out that rams marketing plan is clearly separating itself from the cummins brand and in 2014 and 15, they specifically advertised that you should be able to everything with a gas motor as a diesel (mostly to promote the 6.4 but still). Now anyone who has towed with gas and diesel knows you would need to gear down like a mother f to equal a diesel. With all that being said I hope ram dumps cummins and picks up a CAT motor like rumors have been saying for like 13 years lol...

That will never happen. For one, the Cummins engine is by far the most reliable engine in the light, medium, and heavy duty market. Most people who actually use their diesels for work, unlike the OP, appreciate reliability over racing. There is a reason why their are so many Cummins members in the million mile club with their 5.9L and 6.7L diesels while the others have just a few. Also, the last on-highway engine Caterpillar made was in 2010 because they did not want to re-engineer their diesels for emissions. My sources their tell me that they do not plan on returning to the on-highway diesel engine market any time soon either.

Besides, even if there was a Cat or even a Duramax in the Ram, it would still have the overly intrusive torque management since that is something that Ram programs into the ECM to save its weak transmission, not Cummins. This is one reason why the 2013+ Ram Cummins trucks no longer use a Cummins ECM, and it is a Ram ECM. It is not Cummins that is holding the Ram back and is more a factor of Ram holding the Cummins back.



Cummins High Mileage Club

 

[regularcab2500]

#1 CAT exited the over-the-road engine business several years ago
#2 While their big motors, 3406 for example, were excellent-at least until they got off in the weeds with their disastrous Navijunk inspired ACERT emissions strategy-their smaller stuff was never much to brag about. The 3208 was scrap and the 3116/3126 was not very highly regarded. Anything small/light enough to go into a pickup would be a Perkapiller(Perkins)anyway. Bottom line:Cummins>CAT any day.
#3 If FCA moves away from Cummins, it will be to one of their own engines like they have done with Case and New Holland.

I agree with this but a CAT powered ram just tingles my ******. The C7 ACERT motor is a monster if you can keep it on the road. Single turbo high output model was rated for 800ft*lbs at 1440 rpms. Even in an f-650 it's ********. You are correct about a case model being more viable. I'm a cat fan boy though so sue me lol.

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[regularcab2500]

That will never happen. For one, the Cummins engine is by far the most reliable engine in the light, medium, and heavy duty market. Most people who actually use their diesels for work, unlike the OP, appreciate reliability over racing. There is a reason why their are so many Cummins members in the million mile club with their 5.9L and 6.7L diesels while the others have just a few. Also, the last on-highway engine Caterpillar made was in 2010 because they did not want to re-engineer their diesels for emissions. My sources their tell me that they do not plan on returning to the on-highway diesel engine market any time soon either.

Besides, even if there was a Cat or even a Duramax in the Ram, it would still have the overly intrusive torque management since that is something that Ram programs into the ECM to save its weak transmission, not Cummins. This is one reason why the 2013+ Ram Cummins trucks no longer use a Cummins ECM, and it is a Ram ECM. It is not Cummins that is holding the Ram back and is more a factor of Ram holding the Cummins back.



Cummins High Mileage Club

The last on-highway engine CAT produced was in 2015 as a 2016 truck but they exited the market almost immediately in late February this year. But I do agree with your final statement but this has always been the case with ram/cummins. Ram has never been able to keep up with the performance of any cummins engine. At first it was the chassis that couldn't handle as much now it's computers limiting the ignorant power the cummins produces. It's 6 to 1/2 dozen. Unfortunately CAT has not had small 6cyl success overall and the epa totally screwed them with new regulations in 2009. As bad ass as the C7 ACERT can be, it's a ************* overall.

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[SouthTexan]

The last on-highway engine CAT produced was in 2015 as a 2016 truck but they exited the market almost immediately in late February this year.

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The on-highway CAT CT line of engines they put in their trucks were re-branded and repainted Navistar/International MaxxForce engines.

"The CT series, unveiled in 2010, comes with available engine options of CT11, CT13 and CT15, all three of which are Navistar MaxxForce engines that Cat engineers rebranded as their own."

Where does MaxxForce transition leave Cat truck?



"Most CT-660s now get the 12.4-liter diesel that Navistar, which builds it, has named MaxxForce 13 and Cat calls the CT-13. Other Cat trucks get the 10.5-liter MaxxForce 11/CT-11. "

Cat Trucks to Get Cummins SCR, But What About Big-Block Diesel?

 

[drittal]

If Ram moves away from Cummins, the smart money is on them using iveco. No reason to leave cummins just to spend money to use the Cat brand.

 

[Csanders1992]

I'd just hope that whatever they do (if anything), they outsource for a light duty diesel. The ecodiesel isn't overly impressive, so I don't care to see what they would do with a bigger one.


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[tjfdesmo]

The on-highway CAT CT line of engines they put in their trucks were re-branded and repainted Navistar/International MaxxForce engines.

"The CT series, unveiled in 2010, comes with available engine options of CT11, CT13 and CT15, all three of which are Navistar MaxxForce engines that Cat engineers rebranded as their own."

Where does MaxxForce transition leave Cat truck?



"Most CT-660s now get the 12.4-liter diesel that Navistar, which builds it, has named MaxxForce 13 and Cat calls the CT-13. Other Cat trucks get the 10.5-liter MaxxForce 11/CT-11. "

Cat Trucks to Get Cummins SCR, But What About Big-Block Diesel?

The whole CAT truck was a joint venture with Navijunk IIRC, so the whole project was about the logo in the grill IMHO.
I do recall reading that the Maxx-Force 15L was built around a 3406 shortblock, though.

 

[Boudreaux]

I was working at a freightliner dealer when CAT exited the on road market, forgive me for going off topic, but I see off highway equipment now has to be emissions compliant how are they doing in that segment now. I knew emissions was the reason they exited the on road market so I am curious how they are doing. I know the mechanics hated working on them. Also the cummins name is what saved dodges ass in the truck market off of name recognition alone. I don't see why ram would no longer want to capitalize on that

 

[scabrales95]

I sure miss my '10 CTD! It was deleted and running a very clean "mild" 100hp tune and would not foal coal for nothing! She had 3.73's and would move with the quickness, only lost one "battle" and that's cuz I hit the governor. Towing, she pulled like a monster and my only concern was the tranny............the over drives anyway. 1st thru 4th could handle being abused, WOT downshifts at HWY speeds would worry me as the overdrive bands no likey!! Diesels are fun but you gotta pay if you really want to play.

The 3.42's and throttle lag are probably making the biggest difference these days............along with Trq Managment.

I'm looking to buy a 2010 2500 cummins deleted, tuned, afe stage 3 intake, 4 in flo pro exhaust, hard piped intercooler, and a b and d shift kit, and maybe something else I'm forgetting. I test drove it and it was decent. I was expecting a little more kick but it has only been run on a very mild 35 hp tune. I'm thinking an h and s mini maxx tuner would help that out more. I know it's random but does that set up sound good and are there any upgrades or anything I should look into doing right off the bat? I wanna get good opinions on these pickups but don't know anyone personally that has one so thought I'd search the forums lol.

 

[Ram444]

I came out of a 2015 Toyota Tundra Pro to purchase a year older 2014 Ram 3500 to get the Cummins that Toyota has no plans to offer. The truck I got previous owner had already done everything I wanted to do so I haven't touched it. The truck has everything deleted, new intake, airbox, 5" exhaust, Bully Dog Tuner I'm using as a monitor. The previous owner had installed an EFI Live 4 tune. There are 4 different performance levels from economy to race. Even in the economy mode it pulls very strong with very light dark smoke. Turn it to level 4 and it pulls a lot harder with what I'd describe as moderate black smoke. I'm told it has between 540-600hp. The truck is certainly not as quick as my last supercharged Tundra but I'm not sure a modified 6.4 in a 3500 would outrun it. These diesels make their power low in the rpm range and seem to respond to medium throttle input better than WOT. I'm tempted to upgrade the fuel system and run compound turbos but it's not necessary and most likely would hurt reliability.

 

[trx680]

My friend has a 2015 Outdoorsman with the Cummins, and he just got the new PCM flash. He said the truck has more power than ever before. But you would think the 2016 Rams would already have that update.

I got a similar PCM flash on my 6.4 Hemi, and I gained a noticeable amount of acceleration when I drove it out of the dealership.

you had you computer flashed to open up more power from the Cummins at the Ram dealership??

How does this affect the warranty?

 

[yillbs]

The turbo lag on the cummins was just a bit to much for me. I drove the 6.4 and fell in love, then drove the 5.7 and fell even more in love. The 6.7 is a workhorse, it's not a fun daily driver imo.

 

[spoon059]

you had you computer flashed to open up more power from the Cummins at the Ram dealership??

I think that post was a little hyperbole...

 

[SwollenMonkey16]

What's this PCM flash for the 6.4s being talked about?

 

[57buick]

I don't get the debate. I bought my first diesel 2 years ago. A 2015 2500 Cummins and I am amazed how powerful and fast it is. I can hit 70 to 75mph at half throttle before the end of the entrance ramp on the highway! And Im on 37's with the stock 3.42 gears

Sure I know I can spend a few grand and make it even faster but why? Where would I use that?

 

[BossHogg]

I don't get the debate. I bought my first diesel 2 years ago. A 2015 2500 Cummins and I am amazed how powerful and fast it is. I can hit 70 to 75mph at half throttle before the end of the entrance ramp on the highway! And Im on 37's with the stock 3.42 gears

Sure I know I can spend a few grand and make it even faster but why? Where would I use that?

I'm with you, my 3500 has about the same performance as my 2013 Hemi 1500. Pulling a 15K fifth wheel I have zero issue reaching merge speed on an acceleration ramp.

The OP stated "soo slow", but that is a relative reference. If compared to a Corvette I agree.

 

[chadster21]

i just picked up a 17 cummins coming from a 15 half ton 5.7 i find the diesel so much better to drive, i get way better mileage, its got way more tourque and if you want to come on to it goes like a train. i switched to a diesel because i was sick of the high gas prices and the ****** 8 speed tranny (opinion), i dont know what i was doing wasting the last 10 years with gas engine trucks (opinon), il never go back.i went from 13mpg in the hemi to 18 in the diesel (which pretty much covers the payment difference on the truck)
truck is being deleted on the 24th interested to see how that goes.

 

[mattyk2188]

Last summer my brother was training for a new job in the neighboring state. Long story short, they would rent him a rental for the weekend to visit home. Luckily on one of those weekends they were all out of wimpy little Taurus' & had a '16 Cummins CCSB in the back with <500 miles. Needless to say, not even broken it. He too thought there'd be more power too but he's been just a cheapo car guy his whole life, owned a Geo Metro for 3 yrs. But w/ the diesel you're more interested in the torque & towing capacity regardless. I thought it was **** anyway. We took it on some back country roads & it roasted the tires pretty well so I was impressed


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[JRG18]

I find my Cummins to be the right amount of power daily driving. If I get on it though it is amazing. Can't speak for the 5.7 or 6.4 owners cause I never drove either but compared to my other diesels, this one is enormous in power and the MPG is streets ahead to those I programmed or chipped.

 

[Hemipower392]

I find the cummins to be extremely powerful and way more fun to drive than the 6.4 or 5.7