Anyone HAPPY with Borg Warner 44-44 / Auto 4WD

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loveracing1988

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In the 3rd video- you are likely right. But at the 38 second mark the front wheels do not spin until the rears slip. but hey I could certainly be wrong. There a few additional reasons why I think you could be right as well. But there a few moments where the fronts dont pull until the rears slip a bit.

Anyways, I thought I would place the videos here to point out the 44-44 is still very capable (with some video evidence) - when used correctly. Sure you dont have the same control instantly as the 44-45.
The main reason I said that is because that is an express, and a pre 2013 one at that which didn't come with the 44-44.

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loveracing1988

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The 44-44 has a few advantages when it's working as designed, but then so does the 44-45.

The only advantage it has is 4 auto, other than that it is inferior in every way. Most people have no issues with them. Most people though defend the transfer case because they've had no issues as the only time they need 4wd is in the rain, or "it worked fine in 4" of snow as I drove down a paved road so I don't understand how you don't like it". The bottom line is gm figured out how to have 4 auto yet have a full mechanical lock in 4 hi and low and the old new venture transfer cases ram used pre 2013 were the same. They were the best of both worlds, unlike the 44-44.


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The bw 44-44 case has worked very well for us.The truck has 11000 miles about 1800 off road.Its been in washed out road soft sanddunes climbed sand hills and done some rock crawling on rock roads with 12 to 18 inch rock.The transfer case works.You can feel a slight slip of the rear tires and then it moves sometimes with 1 rear tire in the air. Only one time did I have trouble when we slipped down a side slopeand had to winch out because of the angle and fear of rollover.I have always put the truck in drive when winching but when we did the rear tires started spinning causing the rear to slide down futher making it even worse.put truck in neutral and pulled it out.I had my fears at first but so far we are very happy with it .Mike
 

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JIMBOX

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:) I don't have any complaints for my '16 SPORT 4wd, 4auto is an outstanding lifesaver and the 4hi/4lo are fine for what the truck is asked to do-

If I wanted this-
Feb%202016%20023_zpsf0djuidr.jpg

I'll add Diff. lockers and tires-otherwise-this will do

SUNP0105_zpsjga54nwm.jpg


The only difference is you can't buy the truck equipped that way-

Different vehicles, different purposes-

Whatever

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Ken226

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I recall a member in another thread, or perhaps another forum was upset because ram declined to repair his bw44-45 after he destroyed it.

Apparently he was recovering a boat on a slick algae covered boat ramp. Apparently the traction control was limiting wheelspin to maintain the highest level of traction, so he deactivated it. After which, with all 4 wheels were spinning at high speed, he inched the truck/trailer/boat up the ramp.

Once the truck reached the dry, non-algae infested portion of high-traction concrete, the angular velocity of the front wheels of the locked 4wd system decelerated from high velocity to 0, over the course of about 0.01 �� seconds.

The mass-moment-enertia of the rear wheels keep them spinning despite the fact that they were locked in sync with the front wheels via a system of gears and shafts.

The gears and shafts acted as a brake, by twisting, breaking and shearing, they served to reduce the angular velocity of the rear wheels, untill they matched the front, at an angular velocity of -0-. Needless to say, the parts that self-destructed were all the expensive ones.


Perhaps a 2nd advantage of the 44-44. It's way more tolerant of the non-technically savvy user. These days, most all vehicle buyers are in that category. Watch "idiocracy" sometime, it's a rather prophetic documentary.

I just heard a interesting statistic this morning. 7% of American ADULTS believe that chocolate milk comes from brown cows.

BTW: please forgive my spelling and grammar errors. My Droid has a tiny thumboard and a gnarly autocorrect feature that is nothing short of maddening.
 

cbsmith

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I need that same scenario with the 44-44 it would do the same thing. With that mi h power and wheel spin the transfer case would be fully locked when the front hooked up. It might be different parts that break but the outcome would be the same still.

That is just abuse of the truck no matter what equipment it has.
 

Ken226

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The clutch in the 44-44 is limited to pass through about 1600 lb-ft of torque.

About 4x the engines crankshaft torque output, but about = to the gear reduced torque output at the transmission output.

Above this value the clutch will slip.

The angular momentum of 200lbs of wheel/tire/brake rotor spinning at 611 rpm (25mph), then stopping in a fraction of a second will easily surpass 1600 ft-lb and break a geared system, and slip in a clutch system.

(Corrected my assumptions with actual calculations below)
 

Ken226

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Torque=moment of enertia x angular acceleration

A couple assumptions must be made. Let's say the tires/wheels/brakes/driveshafts and all other rotating parts involved weigh 200lbs.

Let's also say that the tires are about 33" diameter, or 16.5" radius

We want our answer in ft lbs, so all units of length are in ft and of weight/force in lbs

Moment of enertia= mass x radius squared

So, moment of enertia = (200/32.2earths gravity)(1.375)^2
Moment of enertia = 1.74 slug/ft^2

Angular acceleration= from 611rpm to 0rpm in 0.1 seconds=101.8 rev per second^2 or 639.62 radians per second ^2

Using the first equation

1.74 slug feet sq x 639.62 radians per second ^2 = 1112.9388 ft lbs of torque. This likely wouldn't have damaged either transfer case, as they're built to take this.

But

Make it 50mph and
1.74 slug ft ^2 x 1280 radians per second ^2 and you get

2227.2 ft lbs. This definitely breaks the 44-45, and definitely makes the 44-44 clutch slip.

Both are designed to take the engines rated torque output times the gear reduction factor, which I believe in 1st gear is about 4:1.

400ft lbs of hemi torque x 4:1 1st gear ratio is about 1600 ft lbs.

My estimates for the weight of the rotating parts, and deltaV angular is likely pretty conservative. Chances are, the torque load was actually higher.
 

ColdCase

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The bottom line is gm figured out how to have 4 auto yet have a full mechanical lock in 4 hi and low and the old new venture transfer cases ram used pre 2013 were the same. They were the best of both worlds, unlike the 44-44.

I think FCA uses the same transfer case as GM does (in their light trucks) in their Jeep Grand Cherokee with different, more sophisticated software traction control, like locking when you punch the throttle. FCA chooses to not give you mechanical lock in 4Hi, however. For some reason, probably cost, FCA chooses to put less capable transfer cases and traction control in the 1500 RAM trucks.
 
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loveracing1988

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FCA uses the same transfer case as GM in their Jeep Grand Cherokee with some additional software traction control, like locking when you punch the throttle. For some reason, probably cost, FCA chooses to put less capable transfer cases and traction control in the 1500 RAM trucks.
I thought this was the wrong forum for you... Which trim levels and years? I know my wife's 2014 doesn't have it. But it is a similar design to gms autotrac where 4 low locks it but out of 4 lock the computer controls everything.

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ColdCase

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Any year newer than 2011 with QT. Just saying its the same MP3023 transfer case (formerly NP) that GM uses in light trucks, just that FCA chose to not implement 4WD high mechanical lock and depend on the clutches holding. Dunno why. I have a technical reference around her somewhere.
 
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loveracing1988

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Any year newer than 2011 with QT. Just saying its the same MP3023 transfer case (formerly NP) that GM uses in light trucks, just that FCA chose to not implement 4WD high mechanical lock and depend on the clutches holding. Dunno why. I have a technical reference around her somewhere.
Read that completely wrong, my bad. I thought you said FCA used the 44-44 in its grand cherokee too.

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Burla

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Bluto

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I use it once and while, but honestly I cringe when I use it. It is literally slamming hard parts together. I live in Western NY and get plenty of nasty roads. At a stop light or something in slush or rain, I will pop it into 4 high, take off from the intersection and flip it back to 2wd.

On highway drives on slick roads (not snow covered, I use 4h for that) I will use 4auto but that's about it. I think from a stop 4 auto is too rough on the hard parts.
 

iam_canadian22

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I use it once and while, but honestly I cringe when I use it. It is literally slamming hard parts together. I live in Western NY and get plenty of nasty roads. At a stop light or something in slush or rain, I will pop it into 4 high, take off from the intersection and flip it back to 2wd.

On highway drives on slick roads (not snow covered, I use 4h for that) I will use 4auto but that's about it. I think from a stop 4 auto is too rough on the hard parts.
With that case 4hi behaves the same as 4 auto anyways so its still the same parts slamming

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WilliamS

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With that case 4hi behaves the same as 4 auto anyways so its still the same parts slamming

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This is correct 4hi and 4auto will do the same thing in this situation. 4auto will hold the gear a small while when turning, but 4auto will release. My only complaint is that one situation alone. When I get home its 15mph and some tight bends and you can feel it violently disengage around them.
 
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Sir John

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I use it once and while, but honestly I cringe when I use it. It is literally slamming hard parts together. I live in Western NY and get plenty of nasty roads. At a stop light or something in slush or rain, I will pop it into 4 high, take off from the intersection and flip it back to 2wd.

On highway drives on slick roads (not snow covered, I use 4h for that) I will use 4auto but that's about it. I think from a stop 4 auto is too rough on the hard parts.

I'm also in WNY (just east of Lockport) and had the auto 4WD on my 2014 Sport. It acted the same for the most part. My 2016 Rebel, with the BW 44-45 acts much different and I like it better.
 

WilliamS

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I'm also in WNY (just east of Lockport) and had the auto 4WD on my 2014 Sport. It acted the same for the most part. My 2016 Rebel, with the BW 44-45 acts much different and I like it better.

44-45 is a real transfer case. When you tell it 4wd time it locks up. Where as the 44-44 you tell it 4wd time and it says, well I dont think you need it yet, I will wait till you slip somewhere.
 

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Saw this bumped back to the top again, my answer hasn't changed. :favorites13:
 

mohemipar

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I just find it annoying how they label it as 4 Hi like its going to stay engaged as the traditional cases. I didn’t learn about this until after I bought my 1500. Was bummed about it when I learned. They might as well just make it Auto and 4 Low and have the auto be what 4 High currently is. It wouldnt be misleading that way but some buyers would probably get turned off when they found out its essentially just like an SUV or crossover with AWD.

If you are driving on paved roads in light snowy or wet weather then the 44-44 will be fine, I suppose. I never had any problems with it in the couple years I owned my 1500. But for non-paved roads or extended off/on road driving with mud, deep heavy snow etc, no doubt in my mind would I want the 44-45. Even just for the peace of mind.
 
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