Frustrated... 1999 Dodge Ram 1500 5.9L "Missing"

[James Tiberous]

New to the board, this is my first post. Thanks in advance for any feedback that you can provide to help my situation. Full disclosure... I am a Realtor (a member of the National Association of Realtors) and I am in no way am attempting portray or to pretend to be a mechanic. I am not "Mechanically Challenged" but would not call myself anything but an amateur wrench turner.

With that being said, in the words of the great American poet Brian Wilson.... "Help me Rhonda, help, help me Rhonda".

My boss's fathers 1999 Dodge 1500 with a 5.9L engine with only 222,085 miles has been having intermittent starting issues for a couple of years. You could drive someplace and when you went to start the truck again...it would just crank, no start. After 10 to 120 minutes it would start up like there was never anything wrong. It would go sometimes a month in between pulling this not so funny stunt. The other day it wouldn't start for me ...or the next day, or the next so I decided it was time to finally put this to rest.

After doing some research I learned that the probable cause is the sensor under the distributor rotor... so I replaced the cap, rotor and sensor to the tune of $75. It started right up but it had a miss in it... which was not there prior to the not starting issue. Never step I replaced all of the plug wires thinking that all the yanking and pulling on them I had done might have broken a wire inside one of the wires... nope, still had a heavy miss. When I get up to 50'ish MPH the truck starts "Shaking and Shuddering" (okay, you can't tell me that the scene from Airplane didn't just pop in your head) and "backing down".

I used a spark tester and went to all 8 cylinders and all had good spark... but it still has a miss. Could I have defective sensor in the distributor causing the timing not to advance?

Again... thanks in advance for any/all help helping me figure out what is wrong here.

 

[Patrol Pilot 98]

Have you checked to see if your injector for that cylinder is functional? Had a miss on cylinder 4 couple users back and it turned out to be a clogged fuel injector. Just a thought.

 

[James Tiberous]

Have you checked to see if your injector for that cylinder is functional? Had a miss on cylinder 4 couple users back and it turned out to be a clogged fuel injector. Just a thought.

I had not delved into the fuel system, nor even thought of it as a cause because the truck ran great right up to the minute it ... well, didn't. That issue was fixed by the cam sensor, rotor and cap (assuming the main culprit was the cam sensor) being replaced but 100% sure that issue was electrical. When restarting after the maintenance it fired right up but with a miss. My assumption (and we all know what "assume" means) is that I possibly received a flawed cam sensor that isn't "advancing the timing" as the RPM's rise? ...or am I using the wrong terminology? I read that the cam sensor is what set the timing on the Dodge trucks and "not to twist the distributors" ... so I didn't I am not even sure that the information I have is 100% valid.

I did the next best thing I knew to do which was replace the spark plug wires... which made no difference. I have a fuel injector pressure tester that I have never used... I purchased the absolute highest quality fuel injector tester sold.... by Harbor Freight This would be as good a time as any to break it in. Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[jessyj]

Are you sure you got the plug wires on right?

 

[James Tiberous]

Are you sure you got the plug wires on right?

Funny you should say that... I had the owners son in law helping me and he connected the wires to the distributor... we/he triple checked them, but honestly now that you say that, I am not positive. I am going to pop the cap off and make sure #1 is going to the #1 on the cap this afternoon. There is only one way for the sensor and cap to go on, correct?

Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[jessyj]

You need the firing order to get it right. Its on the intake manifold. And the cylinders #s are also on there.

 

[James Tiberous]

You need the firing order to get it right. Its on the intake manifold. And the cylinders #s are also on there.

I finally had the chance to pull the cap and verify that the wires were installed correctly... they are and it still runs really rough... so I am in the same boat as I was when I wrote the post.

 

[JohnnyMac]

Did you actually pull the distributor out of the motor? If so, it might be put back 180 degrees out (although I'm not sure if it would even run that way). Also, did you set TDC (compression stroke) on cylinder #1 and line up the rotor with the notch on the cam sensor? If that's not lined up correctly your timing/fuel sync will be off and cause similar symptoms to what you are describing. If you didn't have the miss prior to working on the distributor, and now you do......seems logical that that is probably where the issue lies. Good luck and I'd be interested to know what you finally figure out, so please report back with you findings.

**EDIT** On another note. Certainly not insulting you intelligence here, but just to make sure that the plug wires are in the firing order (1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2) and not just starting at cylinder one and continuing around the cap (2-3-4-5-6-7-8... ) right? Just making sure.

 

[James Tiberous]

Did you actually pull the distributor out of the motor? If so, it might be put back 180 degrees out (although I'm not sure if it would even run that way). Also, did you set TDC (compression stroke) on cylinder #1 and line up the rotor with the notch on the cam sensor? If that's not lined up correctly your timing/fuel sync will be off and cause similar symptoms to what you are describing. If you didn't have the miss prior to working on the distributor, and now you do......seems logical that that is probably where the issue lies. Good luck and I'd be interested to know what you finally figure out, so please report back with you findings.

**EDIT** On another note. Certainly not insulting you intelligence here, but just to make sure that the plug wires are in the firing order (1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2) and not just starting at cylinder one and continuing around the cap (2-3-4-5-6-7-8... ) right? Just making sure.

Thank you for your wisdom...

1. Yes, first I found a small broken wire that comes off the alternator and appears to go to the fuel injector to cylinder #3. I spliced the wire together and started the truck, it still ran rough.
2. Next I took the cap off and made sure that the #1 cylinder was going to the #1 on the cap (it was). I tried to put it back on Saturday evening but it got cold and dark (working outside) plus my back was killing me from contorting to reach the cap. I tower at an amazing 5' 7" so I have to stand on a set of ramps with a 2x6 on top to give me enough height to reach the distributor.
3. I did not put the engine at TDC since I thought the sensor has a square end and a round end so it can't go on backwards plus the distributor has a notch for the sensor to sit down in. I thought that was self explanatory and correct but think that could be my issue. I assume I should turn the engine to TDC and then put it all back together?
4. Yes Sir... I had the firing order correct as I pulled it up online and ran the wires exactly like we were supposed to. No insult taken... I know people do dumb things and you have no idea of my ability or skill level. Thank you for mentioning that on the off chance I did wire it up wrong.

A quick story on a different situation. 30 years ago I had a friend who was a Toyota mechanic. He found a Toyota for sale in the District (Washington, DC... 20 miles north of me) that the owner had spent 3 years rebuilding the motor and trans but couldn't get it running for the life of him... so he put it in the classifieds. The guy has spent a LOT of time, energy, effort and money rebuilding the car to brand new condition and was VERY frustrated the car wouldn't run. He listed the car at $500 because he thought he did something wrong deep inside the motor and was just "done" with it. My buddy showed up, looked at the car, gave the guy $500 and received a Bill of Sale and the signed title. The seller asked "Are you going to get a tow truck?". My buddy respectfully declined and said "I don't think I need one"... and proceeded to change the plug wires around, turned the key and drove the car off. The seller was PISSED... so I have known the importance of the correct firing order since I was in high school.

 

[James Tiberous]

"The philosophy of gun control: Teenagers are roaring through town at 90MPH, where the speed limit is 25. Your solution is to lower the speed limit to 20."
- Sam Cohen (inventor of the neutron bomb)

I didn't see your quote until after I sent the message... LOVE the analogy. Here is my signature on Twitter...
"When all the guns have been banned. When all the words have been censored. When all the history has been erased. When all the freedom has been taken. Only then will you discover why our right to bear arms was so high on the list."

 

[JohnnyMac]

I didn't see your quote until after I sent the message... LOVE the analogy. Here is my signature on Twitter...
"When all the guns have been banned. When all the words have been censored. When all the history has been erased. When all the freedom has been taken. Only then will you discover why our right to bear arms was so high on the list."

I like it! I'll be using that if you don't mind....You got me by an inch so I feel your pain about working on truck engines. The crazy thing is I always lift my trucks so I have to get a bigger box to stand on.. Sorry my responses come at night, I work a night shift at a comms facility and do most of my surfing while waiting for something to break..

So I tried typing how to do it from memory, but I'm failing, so here is something I cut/pasted from this website:
https://itstillruns.com/how-to-replace-the-distributor-in-a-dodge-ram-12142450.html

Replacing Distributors: 1998 to 2005 models

Trace the spark plug wires to the distributor; it will be at the back of the engine block, in a cramped space.

Disconnect the negative battery cable to the distributor and unhook the air cleaner tube. Unscrew or unhook the clamps holding the distributor cap in place, and unscrew the Camshaft Position (CMP) sensor connector with a screwdriver.

Matchmark the distributor housing and the rotor for later realignment, as well as the distributor housing and the intake manifold. Unbolt the holding clamp and remove the distributor.

Set the engine at Top Dead Center (TDC) mark of the No. 1 cylinder compression stroke with a socket with breaker bar (long-handled ratchet).

Install the Ram distributor, replace the clamp and lightly tighten the bolt. The distributor part number is A1303801 from Parts Train, but numbers differ from different manufacturers. Order using the model, year and engine size.

Turn the distributor in its seating so the rotor lines up with the No. 1 cylinder mark on the Camshaft Position (CMP) sensor. Bolt the clamp bolt to 200 foot pounds (22.5 Nm).

Reattach the CMP sensor connector and use the screws or clamps to replace the distributor cap. Connect the air cleaner tube and the negative battery cable.


Hope this helps. I'm guessing with a little searching, you could probably find a YouTube video or two with visual aids...Good luck!!

 

[JohnnyMac]

Any luck?

 

[James Tiberous]

Did you actually pull the distributor out of the motor? If so, it might be put back 180 degrees out (although I'm not sure if it would even run that way). Also, did you set TDC (compression stroke) on cylinder #1 and line up the rotor with the notch on the cam sensor? If that's not lined up correctly your timing/fuel sync will be off and cause similar symptoms to what you are describing. If you didn't have the miss prior to working on the distributor, and now you do......seems logical that that is probably where the issue lies. Good luck and I'd be interested to know what you finally figure out, so please report back with you findings.

**EDIT** On another note. Certainly not insulting you intelligence here, but just to make sure that the plug wires are in the firing order (1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2) and not just starting at cylinder one and continuing around the cap (2-3-4-5-6-7-8... ) right? Just making sure.

Greetings and salutations... Because of health and weather issues I had not had the chance to get back under the hood of the truck until yesterday. I pulled #1 plug and turned the engine to TDC, rotor was pointing to #1 cylinder, installed the cap, traced the wires and attached them.., and it still runs rough and has a heavy smell of gas when running.

To answer your question, “No”, I didn’t remove the distributor itself, just the cap, rotor and the timing sensor module. Could that module be bad? The truck wasn’t running at all before I replaced it. It can’t be on backwards because of the way it fits... I am at my wits end,,, HELP!

 

[JohnnyMac]

Well I’m pretty much at my wits end as well. It seems only logical that if it ran good (when it ran) before and now it runs rough, it must be something that you handled or in the vicinity of where you were working. Check for broken vacuum lines and wires. Pull the plugs and make sure all the cranking before you fixed it didn’t foul a plug or two. I suppose all the raw fuel that may have passed through the cylinders may also have plugged up the catalytic converter which would make it run rough. Has it thrown any codes?

 

[James Tiberous]

Well I’m pretty much at my wits end as well. It seems only logical that if it ran good (when it ran) before and now it runs rough, it must be something that you handled or in the vicinity of where you were working. Check for broken vacuum lines and wires. Pull the plugs and make sure all the cranking before you fixed it didn’t foul a plug or two. I suppose all the raw fuel that may have passed through the cylinders may also have plugged up the catalytic converter which would make it run rough. Has it thrown any codes?

I don’t have a computer to check it but the check engine light is on. I am heading over there now to give it a once over. Thanks for your help, I’ll keep you posted.

 

[JohnnyMac]

Google check engine light for the year of your truck. I’m pretty sure you can turn the key on/off 3 times then push the gas pedal or something like that and it will do a self test.

 

[James Tiberous]

Google check engine light for the year of your truck. I’m pretty sure you can turn the key on/off 3 times then push the gas pedal or something like that and it will do a self test.

Sir, I have hesitated sending a reply out of sheer embarrassment. I feel like I may have to turn in my man card after what transpired.

A friend of the family who owns the truck came into town for a month or so and is staying with the 83 year old owner of the truck. After many days of brutally cold weather we got a couple nice days. Mike is a genius, literally, his dad was a biochemist, mom a mathematician and he has forgotten more than I will ever know... but I digress. He dug into it on the first nice day we had. Long story short and my best excuse included...

The plug wires were on the wrong posts on the distributor. How? I don’t know... my only excuse is the cold and the hidden location of the distributor. I not only double checked, but triple checked each one, at least I thought I did. I guess after my fingers got cold I was not as accurate on my positioning as I thought. So in conclusion, please call 1-800-I Am An Idot...

I thank you for your assistance. As an Eagle Scout I still try to do a good deed daily for someone else, you filled your quota for awhile with me.

 

[JohnnyMac]

Glad you got it figured out and thanks for coming back and letting us know what you figured out. We’ve all been there.....Some of us a few times. I’ve got my share of help from the folks here on the forum so I have no problem trying to help out. Take care.