Lifter Replacement.

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farmallboy

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Ok. So as a 3 week owner of a 6.4 this has been a terrifying thread to start reading. Especially because just this week my wife kept my truck running for 20 minutes at a nice warm idle.

So where is the quickest collection of info of best advice ? I bought this thing because I was tired of fixing an old rusty truck but that thing didn't cost me 42k. I planned on this thing being a 15-20 year investment with value left down the road and at least 150k miles. So heavier oil is best thing and more frequent changes ? I just read some last night and have been uneasy since. But today I broke 500 and wanted to hook it up for the first time. While I hooked up the trailer I was paranoid about idle time and shut it off when I saw the oil pressure sit at 35.

Now I'm wishing I splurged for more warranty.


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RedneckHippy

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6.4 Hemi w/ MDS
Ok. So as a 3 week owner of a 6.4 this has been a terrifying thread to start reading. Especially because just this week my wife kept my truck running for 20 minutes at a nice warm idle.

So where is the quickest collection of info of best advice ? I bought this thing because I was tired of fixing an old rusty truck but that thing didn't cost me 42k. I planned on this thing being a 15-20 year investment with value left down the road and at least 150k miles. So heavier oil is best thing and more frequent changes ? I just read some last night and have been uneasy since. But today I broke 500 and wanted to hook it up for the first time. While I hooked up the trailer I was paranoid about idle time and shut it off when I saw the oil pressure sit at 35.

Now I'm wishing I splurged for more warranty.


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Just put that money you would have splurged for an extended warranty into a high yield bank account, and if you need to get the thing rebuilt in the future you can have a good mechanic do it the right way with whatever parts you want.
 

Halligan

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I change my oil every 5,000 miles with PUP, shut off the cylinder deactivation feature pretty much every time I drive, and avoid excessive idling. Beyond that if the motor frags I'll hopefully recoup the money I spent on the Lifetime warranty.
 

farmallboy

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I change my oil every 5,000 miles with PUP, shut off the cylinder deactivation feature pretty much every time I drive, and avoid excessive idling. Beyond that if the motor frags I'll hopefully recoup the money I spent on the Lifetime warranty.

How can cylinder deactivate be accomplished? Thoroughly upset I didn't research this motor more before purchase. Only saw the good stuff.


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WY.Ram

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My truck's got only 10k mi so far even though its a 2015 6.4L. I'm just very paranoid reading things on the internet. Right now she's not ticking or anything and I'd like to keep it that way as long as possible. Your comment totally helps - helps me head in the right direction.

One thing about zinc though, I may be talking stupid but my logic is that if high zinc oil keeps factory non-roller flat lifters working normally for many many years, it should also keep a seized up roller lifter from chewing into the cam lobe, right? A seized up roller lifter is basically a flat lifter, No?

(Christ words to apologize for too many words sorry, I might need a life. I just dig my truck and y'all's)..............

I would think it possible that a seized roller could perform like its flat tappet cousin but it seems to be much worse than that. Imagery of failures show The lifter seems to turn about 90 degrees and the edge of the roller proceeds to cut into the cam lobe and cut hard.

Looked like the roller been running that way since day one but sound clips of the tick are extremely loud and nobody is driving that sound out of their driveway.

Not to say the milder sounds aren't a prelude to such erosion but as far as a "stage 4" failure event, you'll know it. And if any sound is a prelude to that disaster it's gotta be addressed. And no way an oil filter can protect the rest of the system from that kind of Carnage. The entire lobe center will be missing with the only the edges remaining. In the shape of u, like that of a sideways roller lifter.

With that bit of fear mongering on my part, I will add that so far this has largely been an early 5.7 but some numbers in most years. The 5 7 and 6.4 are similar enough that if FCA hasn't done anything the 6.4 numbers may start to climb. But not too bad yet. Im not sure how many millions of 5.7 engines are in operation but several. Ratio ehh not terrible, pretty low. It's Still not ok tho. Especially if it's your truck, ya know.

I've read guys that say their '12 (I think) was the most probable year to see lifter failure, and some say they fixed it in '16+ engines, now I read fixed in '18+ engines but that's all unsubstantiated. FCA mythology.

Also have to add that the forum is a place where solutions are sought, so problems are more concentrated within these hallowed walls. So maybe the odds are even better yet but that does nothing for those that have had the total pita problem. The failure is real and happens far to often, imo

FCA owes the repair but my wife owes me at least 15...well nevermind. But I'm sure to not get either one. (Unless I pay more....ha)

FCA claiming that were all just hearing sounds, or we don't know what an engine is supposed to sound like and so forth is just grating.

The best 'permanent' fix I'm aware of is to replace the lifters with those used in the Hellcat Hemi. Apparently the Hellcat lifters are produced with a more substantial needle bearings, and are not prone to seizing like ours. Since the Hellcat is a non-mds engine, best practice may be to do the 'mds delete' which entails capping or plugging the mds oil channels in the heads, changing the cam to a non mds unit and probably having the mds controls in the PCM shut off. I have NOT done mine yet, so with a grain here

Not all of that is necessary, maybe, I've read guys the that change only to a non-mds lifter and their engines are currently running very well.

I'm not saying it's the mds system causing the issue but as long as were here - to me that system is ******** and nothing more then smoke.

Another discussion entirely but MDS sayS that you and I are pushing some truck down the road (Ford), a perfectly flat road, no wind. And we are doing quite well. The fastest that particular truck (Ford) has ever gone. You and me pushing with 50% of everything we have, exactly 50%.

Maintaining 50mph, and then suddenly my ***** hurts, I decide f this and I stop. MDS says RAMyou can continue to maintain that speed all by your badass self with no additional effort.

********, Delusional ********

The truck will not keep the same speed unless the exact same amount of energy is applied as before. Which means now your badass self is pushing 100%. Not 50%, not 98 or 99%, but 100%. Mds is a lie and anyone who thinks those 4 cylinders are doing less work then the 8 cylinders needs to take a class in physics. The true laws of our universe.

Matter of fact I would argue those active 4 are now doing more work because the inactive 4 are nothing but dead weight along for the ride and they brought their friend 'friction' along.

Envision me on your back and I'm dragging my feet. MDS says that makes it easier for you,, so I wanna see you hit 55mph or I wanna see you hold 50mph longer or I'll settle for you only eating half that sammich. MDS says it's so.

Gawddamn joke. There I go, all elevated and **** again. Breathe, breathe......and bong hit, aah (I am in CO after all)lol, just kidding. Kinda

Disclaimer and public apology - I am sorry I use strong language, it's how I express myself best, Ramyou, I just used you and I as an example, I'm not saying you were an advocate of MDS, and I'm not saying that the ladies can't push that truck better than me, cause they can, that's why it was my 'gina that hurt, not theirs. So no offense only hugs and smiles (for the ladies, bong hits for the brothers, and absolutely the ladies can bong hit too, and toilet paper for everyone!!!)

Did I forget to mention how much I love my Wagon, she is the girl of my dreams, and if something happened to her, I'd go get me a nice shiny, no mods 2020, and start modn.

We all know Everything is not perfect, and my 392 ci Hemi is the baddest engine / truck combo I've ever owned. Fukd lifters and all. She is the **** and she's mine, and I'd marry her again!

Tapatalk wiped my sig but a couple basic Bolt-on's, tuned by wizard, 5.13 gears turning 37" MTs and she will flat eat **** up. Naturally aspirated, 3/4 ton 7600lb rolling menace, never meant to be a quarter mile pony but they come after me so I oblige. Very few want to try again.

She's not even close to maxed out either, ported heads, and a more aggressive cam will make a her a cannibal. It already takes a twin turbo'd deleted diesel to challenge (one did send me to corner to lick my balls recently, but only once, and it was turning like 32s and you could hear the massive turbo spool for miles, it spooled, I gapped it bad, then, then it all changed, halfway thru 2nd it gapped me by 4 lengths in one gear then it was even through 5th....any way, it was badass) not bragn, well a little, but my point is DO NOT give up on your 6.4L they are worth a lifter job. Mine is worth way more than that to me even. Super proud.
Sorry bout the long, distracted post. Keep loving what you bought, seriously, they are every bit as badass as y'all were thinking when you threw your hard earned dollars at it.

I'm not stopn with mine, Kings and springs come with those lifters? F yeah, all in!
 
Last edited:

RAMYOU

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Hemi 6.4
(Christ words to apologize for too many words sorry, I might need a life. I just dig my truck and y'all's)..............

I would think it possible that a seized roller could perform like its flat tappet cousin but it seems to be much worse than that. Imagery of failures show The lifter seems to turn about 90 degrees and the edge of the roller proceeds to cut into the cam lobe and cut hard.

Looked like the roller been running that way since day one but sound clips of the tick are extremely loud and nobody is driving that sound out of their driveway.

Not to say the milder sounds aren't a prelude to such erosion but as far as a "stage 4" failure event, you'll know it. And if any sound is a prelude to that disaster it's gotta be addressed. And no way an oil filter can protect the rest of the system from that kind of Carnage. The entire lobe center will be missing with the only the edges remaining. In the shape of u, like that of a sideways roller lifter.

With that bit of fear mongering on my part, I will add that so far this has largely been an early 5.7 but some numbers in most years. The 5 7 and 6.4 are similar enough that if FCA hasn't done anything the 6.4 numbers may start to climb. But not too bad yet. Im not sure how many millions of 5.7 engines are in operation but several. Ratio ehh not terrible, pretty low. It's Still not ok tho. Especially if it's your truck, ya know.

I've read guys that say their '12 (I think) was the most probable year to see lifter failure, and some say they fixed it in '16+ engines, now I read fixed in '18+ engines but that's all unsubstantiated. FCA mythology.

Also have to add that the forum is a place where solutions are sought, so problems are more concentrated within these hallowed walls. So maybe the odds are even better yet but that does nothing for those that have had the total pita problem. The failure is real and happens far to often, imo

FCA owes the repair but my wife owes me at least 15...well nevermind. But I'm sure to not get either one. (Unless I pay more....ha)

FCA claiming that were all just hearing sounds, or we don't know what an engine is supposed to sound like and so forth is just grating.

The best 'permanent' fix I'm aware of is to replace the lifters with those used in the Hellcat Hemi. Apparently the Hellcat lifters are produced with a more substantial needle bearings, and are not prone to seizing like ours. Since the Hellcat is a non-mds engine, best practice may be to do the 'mds delete' which entails capping or plugging the mds oil channels in the heads, changing the cam to a non mds unit and probably having the mds controls in the PCM shut off. I have NOT done mine yet, so with a grain here

Not all of that is necessary, maybe, I've read guys the that change only to a non-mds lifter and their engines are currently running very well.

I'm not saying it's the mds system causing the issue but as long as were here - to me that system is ******** and nothing more then smoke.

Another discussion entirely but MDS sayS that you and I are pushing some truck down the road (Ford), a perfectly flat road, no wind. And we are doing quite well. The fastest that particular truck (Ford) has ever gone. You and me pushing with 50% of everything we have, exactly 50%.

Maintaining 50mph, and then suddenly my ***** hurts, I decide f this and I stop. MDS says RAMyou can continue to maintain that speed all by your badass self with no additional effort.

********, Delusional ********

The truck will not keep the same speed unless the exact same amount of energy is applied as before. Which means now your badass self is pushing 100%. Not 50%, not 98 or 99%, but 100%. Mds is a lie and anyone who thinks those 4 cylinders are doing less work then the 8 cylinders needs to take a class in physics. The true laws of our universe.

Matter of fact I would argue those active 4 are now doing more work because the inactive 4 are nothing but dead weight along for the ride and they brought their friend 'friction' along.

Envision me on your back and I'm dragging my feet. MDS says that makes it easier for you,, so I wanna see you hit 55mph or I wanna see you hold 50mph longer or I'll settle for you only eating half that sammich. MDS says it's so.

Gawddamn joke. There I go, all elevated and **** again. Breathe, breathe......and bong hit, aah (I am in CO after all)lol, just kidding. Kinda

Disclaimer and public apology - I am sorry I use strong language, it's how I express myself best, Ramyou, I just used you and I as an example, I'm not saying you were an advocate of MDS, and I'm not saying that the ladies can't push that truck better than me, cause they can, that's why it was my 'gina that hurt, not theirs. So no offense only hugs and smiles (for the ladies, bong hits for the brothers, and absolutely the ladies can bong hit too, and toilet paper for everyone!!!)

Did I forget to mention how much I love my Wagon, she is the girl of my dreams, and if something happened to her, I'd go get me a nice shiny, no mods 2020, and start modn.

We all know Everything is not perfect, and my 392 ci Hemi is the baddest engine / truck combo I've ever owned. Fukd lifters and all. She is the **** and she's mine, and I'd marry her again!

Tapatalk wiped my sig but a couple basic Bolt-on's, tuned by wizard, 5.13 gears turning 37" MTs and she will flat eat **** up. Naturally aspirated, 3/4 ton 7600lb rolling menace, never meant to be a quarter mile pony but they come after me so I oblige. Very few want to try again.

She's not even close to maxed out either, ported heads, and a more aggressive cam will make a her a cannibal. It already takes a twin turbo'd deleted diesel to challenge (one did send me to corner to lick my balls recently, but only once, and it was turning like 32s and you could hear the massive turbo spool for miles, it spooled, I gapped it bad, then, then it all changed, halfway thru 2nd it gapped me by 4 lengths in one gear then it was even through 5th....any way, it was badass) not bragn, well a little, but my point is DO NOT give up on your 6.4L they are worth a lifter job. Mine is worth way more than that to me even. Super proud.
Sorry bout the long, distracted post. Keep loving what you bought, seriously, they are every bit as badass as y'all were thinking when you threw your hard earned dollars at it.

I'm not stopn with mine, Kings and springs come with those lifters? F yeah, all in!

hhaahaha bravo bro. I read the whole thing and enjoyed it. Thanks
 

Halligan

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How can cylinder deactivate be accomplished? Thoroughly upset I didn't research this motor more before purchase. Only saw the good stuff.


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I have a 2015 with the 6 speed so I use the range select button on the gear shift lever to select 6th gear. Doing this will allow the truck to use all six gears but not kick the MDS on. On your truck with the 8-speed I believe your range select button is on the steering wheel. If you toggle down or up until you select "8" you will have all gears for driving but no MDS activation. Using tow/haul will lock it out as well but you have the aggressive shift pattern as a by product.

Don't be upset with yourself and enjoy the truck. My truck has almost 55,000 miles and the engine hasn't been touched and it runs fine. I hope to drive it another 5 years and add another 55,000 miles without issue before I offload her for a new 2025 Power Wagon.
 

Chris8579

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Since I have been discouraged by my 6.4 I went and looked at a new 2500 Hemi tradesmen mainly wanted to listen to it. Well it started up with a nasty lifter tick and made the same weird sound
Mine does now but didn’t make new or in the first 250 miles after getting mine back after cam and lifter. So now I’m really confused. I also looked a ram Rebel with a Hemi it made the
Same weird noise but no startup tick. So I’m really confused on what’s normal with these trucks
 

farmallboy

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I have a 2015 with the 6 speed so I use the range select button on the gear shift lever to select 6th gear. Doing this will allow the truck to use all six gears but not kick the MDS on. On your truck with the 8-speed I believe your range select button is on the steering wheel. If you toggle down or up until you select "8" you will have all gears for driving but no MDS activation. Using tow/haul will lock it out as well but you have the aggressive shift pattern as a by product.

Don't be upset with yourself and enjoy the truck. My truck has almost 55,000 miles and the engine hasn't been touched and it runs fine. I hope to drive it another 5 years and add another 55,000 miles without issue before I offload her for a new 2025 Power Wagon.

Thanks for the info and advice. I do like this truck. I wanna keep it a LONG time. My wife is due in June. It would be a nice thought to make the boy earn the truck for his 16 bday. That would be a good life to me. This truck is just tow pig and weekend warrior so it won't be worn out for a long time. I plan on doing early services of everything and using the highly recommended RL oil.

Yes I have the range selector on the wheel. I haven't tried it out yet. Just hit 500 over the weekend and soared to where my big trailer is stored, hooked up and drug it around for a little while. I'll be honest the tow haul is a dream on these trucks. The shift points are great. I still cannot get used to the shifting on the 8 speed at normal driving.


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Chris8579

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Be glad you have the 8 speed I have a 6 speed and it does 50 in 1st 80 in 2nd Flat out. so the last 3 are overdrives it’s like a 4 speed with 2 overdrives. How does that 8 speed go. I towed 12500lbs or so from Maine to Florida no problem was in 4 th gear the whole time on highway though.
 

WY.Ram

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Since I have been discouraged by my 6.4 I went and looked at a new 2500 Hemi tradesmen mainly wanted to listen to it. Well it started up with a nasty lifter tick and made the same weird sound
Mine does now but didn’t make new or in the first 250 miles after getting mine back after cam and lifter. So now I’m really confused. I also looked a ram Rebel with a Hemi it made the
Same weird noise but no startup tick. So I’m really confused on what’s normal with these trucks



Record a cold start for us. These guys are amazing, and ya ever know. Use your phone then use the file upload utility.

Many pushrod, hydraulic lifter engines chatter if they sit for a couple days like at the dealer.

Yours with daily noise - gotta hear it to really help further.

Many find there engine to quiet down with a different oil, PUP is first class synthetic that us readily available, and off the shelf in many locales. Redline has quieted more 5.7Ls here than any other (a poll was used)

Use a larger then oe filter. Do a quick search here on filters and pick one that is supported by members, I use Royal Purple 20-820, touted by many to be the one, but others exist, Fram Ultra is outstanding and in inventories, WIX is also good. These are all a spun micro glass filter element.

I use the 20-820 filter because it has twice the capacity the oe filter. Guys here have dissected these and many others, there are vids showing what they found and why it matters, The filtrations have been tested as well.

WIX readily available also.. Pic of both with part numbers. Filters are obviously critical components for their filtrations but there is also valve works inside that are mandatory for our 6.4L (maybe others too),

Capacity difference is shown the WIX is the smaller oe size,

For when you just can't read any more about this sh and you gotta have something to hang onto, Blackstone Oil Analysis (BOA). Find them online, they will send you free of charge the collection kit shown in pic 3. I think it may even be postage paid back to them unless you overnight it.

Blackstone will run your oil sample thru a mass spectrometer and return to you a fairly detailed report about the contents of your oil,( microscopic not chunks). They report on the metal content, fuel, water etc in the oil. If you have elevated content of certain metal, then you know that area of the engine is experiencing heavier then normall wear. Bearings, cam shaft, cylinders, valves, rings, etc, different metals.

Do it Once and you have a snapshot of current wear, continue to sample for wear trends Over say three years, sending in a sample 1 to 3 times a year you will have solid knowledge and records of your engines condition. $25 per sample. Includes a summary on each analysis that interprets current results, it is most informative.

For an additional $10 they will further their analysis and include a measured, accurate 'remainder of life' (tbn) on your sample followed with an oci recommendation.

They keep my wagon around 7500 miles, and my wife's 5.7L Hemi oci is 12,500 miles. (That's a 2015 5.7L Hemi w over 100k mi that is remote started and idled near daily in the winter, extremely low wear, better then a 2010 Toyota Tacoma 4 bang, oci 10k mi). Blackstone is The ****

Instructions come with the sample kits.

Keep an eye on your oil level, the BGE uses oil on a regular basis, The cooling system sprays oil on the cylinder walls at certain intervals during the 4 stroke cycle,.

Mine willl use 1/2 to 3/4 qt in 5000 miles ish.

Just know oil mileage is normal for the truck engine. I will hear light chatter half a quart low. And a quart low (only once) it's getting louder and I'm thinking wtf, top it off with RL5w40, sound of music.

Blue Moon. I won't drink 3 and then post about things I seem overly passionate about. At least for awhile lol

b9c5a97d213098a4cb338823460372cb.jpg443c4c95b3152e81ebde590d79897f46.jpg6e8ea5166770a2c6808d84815f198fa7.jpg

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El Huapo

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V6 flex
I've been reading all these lifter problems posts and I have to wonder if no aftermarket mfgr is making improved lifters which would negate these problems. I have not worked on one of these hemi engines but changing lifters can't be that damned tough for most of us, can it? I'm thinking too, roller lifters may be crap, what happened to good old sintered bronze bushings? Might need an oil port in them but they used to last for a very long time in a great many tough applications? Isky, Crower, Crane, somebody out there?
 

RVGuy

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I've been reading all these lifter problems posts and I have to wonder if no aftermarket mfgr is making improved lifters which would negate these problems. I have not worked on one of these hemi engines but changing lifters can't be that damned tough for most of us, can it? I'm thinking too, roller lifters may be crap, what happened to good old sintered bronze bushings? Might need an oil port in them but they used to last for a very long time in a great many tough applications? Isky, Crower, Crane, somebody out there?
From my understanding, roller lifters should actually last longer. It's something causing the needle bearings in the lifter to seize up. Whether it's a defect in the lifter itself, a lack of lubrication to the needles, or something else is beyond me.
I'm thinking the roller type lifters are a requirement of the VVT and MDS systems, but I might be wrong as I'm in no way a professional. I'm just thankful we're not guinea pigs to what's going on inside the new 2.7 V4 turbo Chevy engine. VVT, cylinder shutdown, a sliding camshaft, turbos, an electric water pump, and selective engine heating all in the same engine.....
 

El Huapo

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From my understanding, roller lifters should actually last longer. It's something causing the needle bearings in the lifter to seize up. Whether it's a defect in the lifter itself, a lack of lubrication to the needles, or something else is beyond me.
I'm thinking the roller type lifters are a requirement of the VVT and MDS systems, but I might be wrong as I'm in no way a professional. I'm just thankful we're not guinea pigs to what's going on inside the new 2.7 V4 turbo Chevy engine. VVT, cylinder shutdown, a sliding camshaft, turbos, an electric water pump, and selective engine heating all in the same engine.....
I think roller bearings have less friction therefore marginally better gas mileage (?)---and maybe rev higher? But they're regularly failing or it seems so from these postings. Well-lubricated bushings, like in the rod bearings and main bearings, etc. last a long time if proper oil changes are done, right?
NOTE: not claiming expert status here, I'm just an old hot rodder with grease here and there.
 

Chris8579

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Funny thing about roller lifters ford has been using them since 1985 in the old 5.0. I have owned 4 5.0 and still drive A highly modified 86 Mustang gt today as my hot rod. I have never lost a roller lifter. I drive the wheels off this car. My car makes zero lifter noise. No matter how long it sits. If ford got it right in the 80s why is ram having issues with it 35 years later. Machining technology is so much better now I know I’m a machinist.i rarely am hard on my truck only when towing. I change the oil every 5,000 miles with recommend synthetic. Am disipointef to have these problems considering how much this truck cost
 

WY.Ram

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I would love to post a video I have a few I’ve taken how can I post one on here
Are you using phone or computer, and if a phone browser based or Tapatalk?

I think I've uploaded before but I also think they've e employed new platform software since but I'll see if I can get one to go.

I could not agree more with you're comments. we've had so much improvement with manufacturing in the last 30 years, some amazing products these days. I'm not a machinists, I just love most all the tools and toys availble. Well except RAM lifters.
Some 35 years ago roller lifters were working, wtf is RAMs problem.
The suck for it for sure

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Chris8579

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Using an iPhone with safari. I have been talking with ram care on Facebook they want me to get my truck in for appointment after I posted a video on Facebook in one of thier truck adds because someone else called them out on it said maybe you should show us some faith and take care of his truck. but I’ve been telling them I don’t just want to be told it’s normal again. Then get charged a diagnostic fee. I also lost 2 hours of work waiting on the shuttle for a ride back to work last time to get the it’s normal speech and my hood not latched all the way if I didn’t notice before the highway my hood would have been in the windshield. Service writer pretended to be on the phone too had someone else hand me my paperwork.
 

Chris8579

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Engine
6.4 hemi
I've been reading all these lifter problems posts and I have to wonder if no aftermarket mfgr is making improved lifters which would negate these problems. I have not worked on one of these hemi engines but changing lifters can't be that damned tough for most of us, can it? I'm thinking too, roller lifters may be crap, what happened to good old sintered bronze bushings? Might need an oil port in them but they used to last for a very long time in a great many tough applications? Isky, Crower, Crane, somebody out there?
For the dealer it’s a 14 hour job the heads have to be removed. I can do it have done other pushrod engines. But then I have to pay for parts and warranty will be void. This company makes a fix. https://hotrodenginetech.com/gen-iii-hemi-lifter-tick-solved/
 

Mr Rich

Member
Military
Joined
May 9, 2019
Posts
60
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Location
Santa Maria
Ram Year
2018
Engine
Hemi 6.4
I think roller bearings have less friction therefore marginally better gas mileage (?)---and maybe rev higher? But they're regularly failing or it seems so from these postings. Well-lubricated bushings, like in the rod bearings and main bearings, etc. last a long time if proper oil changes are done, right?
NOTE: not claiming expert status here, I'm just an old hot rodder with grease here and there.
I had a 1990 Chev 350 TBI engine with roller lifters that I wanted to use for a car project when I retired. It had low miles and I stored it in my garage until I was ready to use it. After I retired I made the decision to use that engine as a replacement for the 350 engine in my 1989 Chev K1500 EC. That engine was a crate engine with flat tappets that I replaced when it was new in '93. It had the same block casting number as the roller lifter one; for all intents the only diff. between the two was roller lifters. I never got better than 17 mpg on that engine and when I took a trip with the truck with the roller lifter engine I got 20 mpg repeatable times. It was a definite difference in my experience and I kept records for both.
 
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