Synthetic Oil

[Burla]

So check this out, if you leave hemi tick without treating it knowing what we know now, what do you think the temps are in that spot? The heat in the lifter will go right down to the roller. So what happens when metal is hot, much easier to damage, much easier to cut, mold whatever.

If you stop that tick, one would think the temps in that spot would have to be cooler then if it ticked. I still think it would be north of 212f, because there is so little flow there, but whatever the temps I'm sure the lifter is less temp if it isn't in a tick condition. Another reason that if you can stop tick with lubrication or additive, you would be crazy not to.

Same thing with cam lob, that sucker is flying around, if everytime it hits the roller and there is resistance which uncle tony showed us, then how much hotter must that cam lob get then a cam lob that has no resistance? I bet temperature is a huge part to these cut lobs.

 

[Burla]

Point being, even long trips would be a danger for lobs as they gain temp, not just dry starts or idle.

 

[GottaBeKD]

2 points.
1... The pinned comment says that MSD off would allow more oil to spray over.
2... I wonder if this can be addressed by a recall or extended warranty

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[Burla]

The non mds lifters also have this issue, but yeah imo an extended warranty would be a great idea. I would never buy another hemi without a lifetime warranty like fca used to have.

 

[16RamHemi]

Living in a cold weather state, I want to delve into the idling issue more. In my opinion, I don't feel that cold idling or idling to let your truck warm up does much is any damage. I would think all our trucks are roughly the same running wise. Cold start with higher rpms, oil pressure typically around 53psi. To me this is good.

It's not until we drive a bit warming the engine up, then idling where it will come down into the 40s. No idea what the magic number is, but I feel it's the warm and HOT idle that is the issue. Keeping the truck running when running into the store, gassing up etc. Some idling is required. We all have stop lights, stop signs, traffic, accidents etc that require us to wait in our trucks. My truck has spent it's entire life here in Western Maine. And you see the wear numbers. And my truck was dealer oil before I switched to redline 5w30 around 15.5k miles ago.

Maybe @14Tradesman can give more specifics on idle time.

 

[Burla]

I'd just take another look at cold viscosities, cSt operating temp of 5w20 visc is 9, 5w30 it is 12, when you were having piston slap my guess is your viscosity was 1,000 or thicker. If it's so thick you are getting piston slap, I can't imagine much oil is in that lifter cavity. Dunno bro

 

[Hemi395]

Living in a cold weather state, I want to delve into the idling issue more. In my opinion, I don't feel that cold idling or idling to let your truck warm up does much is any damage. I would think all our trucks are roughly the same running wise. Cold start with higher rpms, oil pressure typically around 53psi. To me this is good.

It's not until we drive a bit warming the engine up, then idling where it will come down into the 40s. No idea what the magic number is, but I feel it's the warm and HOT idle that is the issue. Keeping the truck running when running into the store, gassing up etc. Some idling is required. We all have stop lights, stop signs, traffic, accidents etc that require us to wait in our trucks. My truck has spent it's entire life here in Western Maine. And you see the wear numbers. And my truck was dealer oil before I switched to redline 5w30 around 15.5k miles ago.

Maybe @14Tradesman can give more specifics on idle time.

I agree, cold starts have have a good amount of oil pressure and on really cold mornings my truck will sit at 1200rpm for a good 3+ mins before idling down to 1000. Not sure if that's my tuning or not tho.

I've never heard anything but piston slap on my 5.7 during an extremely cold start while running RL. I'm assuming it's due to the higher oil psi and higher rpms?

 

[Hemi395]

So I'm assuming the actual tick we hear is the lifter being slammed into the bore that's not sufficiently lubricated?

Which brings up another thing I've been thinking about, wouldn't a simple "skirt" that is raised above the lifter bores where the pushrod is feeding oil to the lifter help divert some more oil down the lifter bore? Seems like it's just spilling off the top of the lifter and draining back to the sump....

 

[14Tradesman]

Living in a cold weather state, I want to delve into the idling issue more. In my opinion, I don't feel that cold idling or idling to let your truck warm up does much is any damage. I would think all our trucks are roughly the same running wise. Cold start with higher rpms, oil pressure typically around 53psi. To me this is good.

It's not until we drive a bit warming the engine up, then idling where it will come down into the 40s. No idea what the magic number is, but I feel it's the warm and HOT idle that is the issue. Keeping the truck running when running into the store, gassing up etc. Some idling is required. We all have stop lights, stop signs, traffic, accidents etc that require us to wait in our trucks. My truck has spent it's entire life here in Western Maine. And you see the wear numbers. And my truck was dealer oil before I switched to redline 5w30 around 15.5k miles ago.

Maybe @14Tradesman can give more specifics on idle time.

Im a first responder, so when I go on runs that require me to go straight to a scene, I normally leave it running (locked). This is the majority of my idle time I would say. That is warm idling.

However to add to that, when I drop my daughter off and pick her up from the baby sitter, I usually left it running, also at full temp. Gassing up for the same reason because my daughter is generally in the truck as I fill up on my way to or from work. I dont ever have traffic to and from work, perks of living and working in a rural area.

But that stuff really does add up to a lot of idle time. Going to cut down on it and see if it makes a difference.

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[14Tradesman]

So if I did my math right, thats 22% idle time.


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[Musky Mike]

I wonder if now with this info that 0w30 redline would be the new hemi honey, it would be a little thinner for cold OR dry starts. I have to disagree a bit at this point with respect grizz. Yes, I have been saying oil choices matters less if the engine isn't ticking, but what uncle tony proved was perpendicular force and all the lifters to the point they are all scuffed. So that time we have 6 cam fails in a row with non moly'd oils, totally makes sense.

Yes it is great most hemi's wont fail, but is that the real question? If most of those hemi's are scuffing lifters due to that force wouldn't all of them benefit from EP additives that are literally built for this? It doesn't have to be redline oil, but in my opinion this changes everything as far as developing a lubrication strategy. I wouldn't go buying some non moly off the shelf oil because it's on sale. And I would think about adding some lubegard if I was running cheap otc oils which are good quality but maybe can benefit from the extra moly and esters.

Link to VOA for Redline 0W-30. Additives look similar to RL 5W-30.

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/5015428/red-line-0w-30-voa#Post5015428

 

[Jtblackram]

Point being, even long trips would be a danger for lobs as they gain temp, not just dry starts or idle.

What i thought about doing was using the +/- button on my steering wheel to lock the truck in 6th gear when im on the highway, keeps it spinning right around 2k rpm

 

[U&A]

What i thought about doing was using the +/- button on my steering wheel to lock the truck in 6th gear when im on the highway, keeps it spinning right around 2k rpm

You must have an 8speed?

Good idea. I would do it

JMo


Sent while firmly grasping my redline lubed RAM [emoji231]

 

[U&A]

Ill check my idle hours at break

 

[smiley]

.

Thought this was interesting.

What is crazy is these engines can endure a lot of hours and miles. I have had two myself. My Dad has has had three. All Ram 1500’s except one Durango I had. None of them have had or do have engine issues to my knowledge. We always use synthetic oil and don’t typically exceed 10,000 miles per change. Two of the trucks we sold and don’t know how far they made it. The Durango was at around 150 when I traded it in for the Ram. That Ram has close to 200k today. My Dads Ram also an 09 has close to 200k as well. I thought these engines were pretty much these same design from around 03 to current except addition of MDS and VVT. I personally turned off MDS but my Dad has not. Has not seemed to matter. I know they can last when worked as we both have worked ours but we both have idled a lot too living in North Dakota and not parking in a garage. I don’t think idling kills them even though that would make sense. I’ll get the idle time and mileage of my old Ram as my buddy still has it.

 

[Hemi395]

My truck has zero idle hours according to the cluster. I can't imagine in 7 years of ownership that it hasn't accrued one hour of idle time yet. Has to be a glitch.....

 

[AFMoulton]

My truck has zero idle hours according to the cluster. I can't imagine in 7 years of ownership that it hasn't accrued one hour of idle time yet. Has to be a glitch.....

Or it knows you’d beat the **** out of it, if it showed you the real time! LoL!


2018 Ram 2500 6.4L 4x4
Amsoil SS 0W-40

 

[Hemi395]

Or it knows you’d beat the **** out of it, if it showed you the real time! LoL!


2018 Ram 2500 6.4L 4x4
Amsoil SS 0W-40

[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

 

[U&A]

My truck has zero idle hours according to the cluster. I can't imagine in 7 years of ownership that it hasn't accrued one hour of idle time yet. Has to be a glitch.....

Yup,

Impossible.

The idle time clock starts as soon as you start your truck as it sitting there in park.


Sent while firmly grasping my redline lubed RAM [emoji231]

 

[Michael]

Well, if it was another other vehicle I'd say dump it before it dies, but hemi's are all high wear engines and I'd say your numbers maybe 30% higher then normal, which isn't that bad considering the application. I would however try some things if it were me, I'd probably see if 5w20 redline was as smooth as 5w30, and if so I'd check the uoa's, or even consider 5w20 PUP. I say that because PUP tends to have the lowest wear numbers. Now, if you get tick on PUP, I'd say that is a dead strategy. So a couple things you might consider. Main thing keep tick away.

If PUP has lower wear numbers why pay more for redline? Is there some other benefit of redline?