Resonator delete

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texasfan88

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Luckily I have time to think about all of this and that's why I'm trying to learn as much as I can before making that decision. I just want to be able to spend the money and not have any regrets doing so and not end up thinking to myself, "did I spend too much?" or "If I spent just a little bit more, could I've gotten more performance?". I do truly appreciate your expertise on this by the way.
 

Nick@GotExhaust

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I think what I'll do, when I have a day off, is get a quote from a muffler shop regarding what I want. I'm still leaning towards true duals because they do give better performance than a single in/dual out system in general because the exhaust gases have two individual pipes to go through for the entire length of the exhaust system. However, if it makes more economic sense, both in terms of money spent and the performance increase gained if any, then I would perhaps just swap out the muffler and replace the factory y-pipe with a better flowing y-pipe from Magnaflow or Totalflow. If, for example, doing a simple muffler swap and upgrading to a better Y-pipe costs $500 OTD and gives me, and I'm just spit balling here, an extra 10 hp but a true dual system with either an h-pipe or x-pipe gives me 15 hp but costs twice as much, I'll go for the first option. However, I am still going to change out the factory y-pipe regardless of what I do. There are two specific mufflers that I'm looking at and the companies that make them do not have catback systems for my truck. Again, those are Black Widow and Spintech. I suppose what you're trying to say, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that because I'm only using my truck as a daily driver, I will likely never actually see the added performance benefits of a true dual system unless I invest in headers, tuner, etc.?


What I mean is the truck is not pushing enough power and flowing enough that a different mid pipe will make much of a difference especially with stock manifolds and cats. Its a few HP gain at best. Something that will never be felt in a heavy truck. You wont gain any throttle response from it either. Now if you went long tubes with a tune I would say an x pipe is a worthy investment.
 
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texasfan88

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What I mean is the truck is not pushing enough power and flowing enough that a different mid pipe will make much of a difference especially with stock manifolds and cats. Its a few HP gain at best. Something that will never be felt in a heavy truck. You wont gain any throttle response from it either. Now if you went long tubes with a tune I would say an x pipe is a worthy investment.
Oh ok, I see. In that case, if I decided not to go for the true dual setup, which seems to be the best decision given what my intentions are for the truck and just go for a muffler swap or something like the Carven Competitor setup, which I also believe is a muffler swap and something I also think sounds great, would replacing the factory Y-pipe with an aftermarket one be a worthy investment? I think they're only about $30 but I want to make sure it's something that will add some benefit and not just be there for decoration. I mean I suppose it goes back to how much power I'm pushing through the engine and through the exhaust but at least with the Y-pipe, I'm still retaining the factory design somewhat. Also, I had thought about adding a Vararam intake and maybe a tune in the future, just not really considering adding headers at this point.
 

Nick@GotExhaust

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What is $30, a y pipe replacement? You must be thinking of the universal ones. that will not be useful for you. The y pipe is from the manifolds all the way back you the front connection point of your catback and includes the cats. It is MUCH more than $30 for a replacement.

the Carven is a good option. It is a quality product and utilizes a straight thru style muffler which is great for flow. It also sounds great! If you add the optional 5" tips it gives it a nice deep tone as well!
 
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texasfan88

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What is $30, a y pipe replacement? You must be thinking of the universal ones. that will not be useful for you. The y pipe is from the manifolds all the way back you the front connection point of your catback and includes the cats. It is MUCH more than $30 for a replacement.

the Carven is a good option. It is a quality product and utilizes a straight thru style muffler which is great for flow. It also sounds great! If you add the optional 5" tips it gives it a nice deep tone as well!
Lol yeah the part is $30. I hadn't thought of the labor involved with cutting out the factory y-pipe and then fabricating two additional pipes to make it it fit and whatever else is involved. Thanks for your input, Nick. I think now a simple muffler swap or if I can find a catback system I love is the best solution. I like the idea of a muffler swap because I get to keep the 5 inch black tips I currently have but although I haven't found a catback system I love, there are two that I like and those are the flowmaster outlaw and the mbrp xp series. Rough Country also makes one that sounds good in their promotion video but I don't know anything about how the bad the interior drone for that system is, or any of the ones I mentioned for that matter. Corsa makes a good quality exhaust system that I know is designed not to drone but I'm not a fan of how they sound personally. It has too much of a European exotic race car sound to it in my opinion. How is the interior drone with the Carven competitor?
 

bfill_rebel

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Lol yeah the part is $30. I hadn't thought of the labor involved with cutting out the factory y-pipe and then fabricating two additional pipes to make it it fit and whatever else is involved. Thanks for your input, Nick. I think now a simple muffler swap or if I can find a catback system I love is the best solution. I like the idea of a muffler swap because I get to keep the 5 inch black tips I currently have but although I haven't found a catback system I love, there are two that I like and those are the flowmaster outlaw and the mbrp xp series. Rough Country also makes one that sounds good in their promotion video but I don't know anything about how the bad the interior drone for that system is, or any of the ones I mentioned for that matter. Corsa makes a good quality exhaust system that I know is designed not to drone but I'm not a fan of how they sound personally. It has too much of a European exotic race car sound to it in my opinion. How is the interior drone with the Carven competitor?

I have a carven progressive with the 5” tips. There is a slight drone at certain rpms. But honestly I feel I need to almost listen for it as my kids in the backseat or my tire noise is louder than the drone. Wife nor kids have ever complained of noise (except on cold starts when I get called into work at 2am). Kids sleep through it on car rides. People can hear me on Bluetooth. I drove it 1 mile with stock tips and carven muffler just for sound idea. Then I put on 5” tips and it deepened the tone a little. Looks great.

Other thing to consider would be solo muffler delete. I feel that would possibly be a comparable sound to your true dual you are thinking of.

There are times I’ve had the itch to try the muffler delete (just to see how much louder and the tone changes) from Nick and worst case I could sell it on here for like 50 less than I bought it for and all I’d be out is that little $$$ and a hr or two of time....


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texasfan88

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I have a carven progressive with the 5” tips. There is a slight drone at certain rpms. But honestly I feel I need to almost listen for it as my kids in the backseat or my tire noise is louder than the drone. Wife nor kids have ever complained of noise (except on cold starts when I get called into work at 2am). Kids sleep through it on car rides. People can hear me on Bluetooth. I drove it 1 mile with stock tips and carven muffler just for sound idea. Then I put on 5” tips and it deepened the tone a little. Looks great.

Other thing to consider would be solo muffler delete. I feel that would possibly be a comparable sound to your true dual you are thinking of.

There are times I’ve had the itch to try the muffler delete (just to see how much louder and the tone changes) from Nick and worst case I could sell it on here for like 50 less than I bought it for and all I’d be out is that little $$$ and a hr or two of time....


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Yeah but unfortunately, muffler deletes are illegal in the state of Texas even though I’m sure plenty of people do it. It’s weird because there’s no law against how loud the exhaust can be. They do sound pretty sweet though I won’t lie.
 

bfill_rebel

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Yeah but unfortunately, muffler deletes are illegal in the state of Texas even though I’m sure plenty of people do it. It’s weird because there’s no law against how loud the exhaust can be. They do sound pretty sweet though I won’t lie.

Well damn. Sorry didn’t know that law.


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texasfan88

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Well damn. Sorry didn’t know that law.


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Thanks for your input on the Carven btw. Definitely adding that one to the list of possible mufflers to get.
 
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texasfan88

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One other question. If, hypothetically, I were to just save up my money and go for a full header and exhaust system, such as something from Stainless Works or American Racing Headers, and choose the high flow cats on the headers, would I need to get a tune afterwards? I'm not asking if a tune is simply just recommended to get the most power out of the exhaust, I'm asking if it is absolutely required for everything to work properly as far as emissions controls. I think I read somewhere that if I go with catless pipes, which are obviously not street legal, that I would need to get a tune. Just need clarification on this.
 

Nick@GotExhaust

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With or without cats you will want a tune. Long tube headers will give a large improvement in power with a tune. Without a tune that is a lot of money spent that will not give you much more power. Plus a tune will make sure you AFR is good now that you have so much more flow.

ARH and SW are the 2 best options. SW also have a great option that I think you would like. They have a "performance connect" which is an x pipe mid pipe. you do have to order it with their performance connect catback system for it to work.
 
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bfill_rebel

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With or without cats you will want a tune. Long tube headers will give a large improvement in power with a tune. Without a tune that is a lot of money spent that will not give you much more power. Plus a tune will make sure you AFR is good not that you have so much more flow.

ARH and SW are the 2 best options. SW also have a great option that I think you would like. They have a "performance connect" which is an x pipe mid pipe. you do have to order it with their performance connect catback system for it to work.

The SW systems sound great on their site now that they relabeled their line ups. They have very thorough videos that show just headers, headers and each muffler option, just cat back... etc


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texasfan88

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With or without cats you will want a tune. Long tube headers will give a large improvement in power with a tune. Without a tune that is a lot of money spent that will not give you much more power. Plus a tune will make sure you AFR is good not that you have so much more flow.

ARH and SW are the 2 best options. SW also have a great option that I think you would like. They have a "performance connect" which is an x pipe mid pipe. you do have to order it with their performance connect catback system for it to work.
Thanks, Nick. Yeah the Stainless Works system definitely looks of very good quality and certainly sounds great. I suppose the only "downside" is that if I were to get the performance connect x-pipe option with the long tubes, I would then have to buy the accompanying catback exhaust as well, since they obviously won't work with a factory exhaust set up. Obviously if I had $3000 to spare and whatever it costs for installation, that wouldn't be a problem. However, I noticed they also have long tubes that bolt on to your factory exhaust so I suppose I could just find a catback exhaust and then, if I wanted to, just get a set of long tubes that have the y-pipe connection. I've seen plenty of people go this route so I know it works, even though it likely won't give me the same performance results as the x-pipe.
 

MosleyJu

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Be glad you dont live in Oklahoma...


2014 Oklahoma Statutes
Title 47. Motor Vehicles
§47-12-402. Mufflers or other noise-suppressing systems - Prevention of excessive or unusual noise.

Universal Citation: 47 OK Stat § 47-12-402 (2014)
A. Every vehicle shall be equipped, maintained, and operated so as to prevent excessive or unusual noise. Every motor vehicle shall at all times be equipped with a muffler or other effective noise-suppressing system in good working order and in constant operation, and no person shall use a muffler cut-out, bypass or similar device. No person shall modify the exhaust system of a motor vehicle in any manner which will amplify or increase the noise or sound emitted louder than that emitted by the muffler originally installed on the vehicle.

B. The engine and power mechanism of every motor vehicle shall be so equipped and adjusted as to prevent the escape of excessive fumes or smoke, or both.

Added by Laws 1961, p. 407, § 12-402. Amended by Laws 2003, c. 411, § 51, eff. Nov. 1, 2003.
 
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texasfan88

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Be glad you dont live in Oklahoma...


2014 Oklahoma Statutes
Title 47. Motor Vehicles
§47-12-402. Mufflers or other noise-suppressing systems - Prevention of excessive or unusual noise.

Universal Citation: 47 OK Stat § 47-12-402 (2014)
A. Every vehicle shall be equipped, maintained, and operated so as to prevent excessive or unusual noise. Every motor vehicle shall at all times be equipped with a muffler or other effective noise-suppressing system in good working order and in constant operation, and no person shall use a muffler cut-out, bypass or similar device. No person shall modify the exhaust system of a motor vehicle in any manner which will amplify or increase the noise or sound emitted louder than that emitted by the muffler originally installed on the vehicle.

B. The engine and power mechanism of every motor vehicle shall be so equipped and adjusted as to prevent the escape of excessive fumes or smoke, or both.

Added by Laws 1961, p. 407, § 12-402. Amended by Laws 2003, c. 411, § 51, eff. Nov. 1, 2003.
Yeah thank God lol.
 
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texasfan88

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So new plan, considering that my truck is strictly a daily driver meaning I have no use for an insane amount of extra power or spending a ridiculous amount of money to get it, is to get the carven competitor series exhaust. Then, perhaps later I'll get a CAI (either Vararam or S&B) and then perhaps at some point, a tune. Overall I think this is a very "affordable" and effective way of increasing sound and performance because I can pace things out. I feel that if I were to spend $1200-$1500 to get headers, which I'm not knocking btw, I would then also have to get the tuner at the same time. Also, from what I've been told, if I spend the money to get an x pipe and true duals, I wouldn't really see any benefit unless I get headers to go along with it. Having a nice sound is great but as Nick told me, it's useless to have that much flow out of your exhaust if you don't have any additional air coming in. So I figured for my situation, I could spend $500 or so for the carven exhaust (parts and installation), then whenever I want to, spend $300 or whatever it costs for the intake and do that myself. Finally, if I felt like I wanted a little extra power, I would get a tuner and obviously do that myself as well.
 

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And even if you go with long tubes some day, unless you get rid of your cats and really wanna science the hell out of the header collector length (see pressure wave tuning in my other exhaust post) for those extra few ftlbs at peak torque, you won't gain anything by placing an X the correct distance from the header collector merge section. In that case, since flow and velocity are all that matter, check out this X pipe:

https://www.dynomax.com/mufflers

Notice the inside of the "Ultraflow Welded X". Stack 2x 3" in series and you'll still flow enough to allow 800hp but it'll be pretty quiet. Add resonators at the tail pipes and you'll be deadly silent.

Want more noise? A dual in/dual out Flowmaster will do the same thing.
 

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Well, let me put a few thing’s to bed for you, First off, true duals from the stock exhaust manifold’s back will afford some more speed not torque, so long as you replace the stock cat’s with some high flow performance cat’s that are widely available and cheap, Secondly let’s not forget that unless you have a carbureted engine which you do not, you will need a custom tune and probably an unlocked pcm to run the tune. You are confusing the benefits of intake, head, carb, exhaust, non pcm on non catalytic vehicle’s performance changes. Today’s changes involving torque, horsepower yada, yada, yada, start with a tune, a better CAI and some simple exhaust mods, nothing else is needed to get them to run great and stay within legal emissions and now idiot light’s winking at you from the dash. A CAI, a set of long tube/shorty’s, high flow cat’s on a true dual without mufflers can cause a significant loss in back pressure ie: loss in performance if no custom tune/engine work is done. Not to mention it’ll dissipate engine heat causing the exhaust to prematurely rot out Andy won’t operate a nominal temperature during the winter months and that can lead to other issues down the road.
Muscle cars run great for about 65,000-70,000 miles (trust me I owned several big blocks) we also did to them what you think you want to do to yours. Today’s vehicle’s run twice as long get better mileage (some times) and do with with the a/c on. Do a simple exhaust from the cat back put on a CAI change to a better set of plugs, and plop in a pedal commander you’ll be statisfied.
 
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