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clay282

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Thought I would throw this out there. Live in the south and the heat and humidity are relentless all summer. In town I expect the engine temps to fluctuate, but it never sat well with me on the interstate. I get it, aerodynamics etc. Still, I never thought it was doing the drivetrain any good at a steady 80mph, heating up and cooling down over and over.

I've owned the truck for a few years now and it's not had any problems, but I decided to finish paying it off and run her till she drops. Accordingly, making some changes for longevity seemed worth it.

Last month, middle of the worst heat, it's clear that she feels more peppy BEFORE she's run for a long time and the engine and trans are heat soaked. I looked at the mods on YouTube for the Active Grill Shutter delete and really didn't feel like drilling and buying some kit etc. One I found, the guy just took out 6 fins and left the Active Grill Shutter as is. He left the top 2, middle 2 and bottom 2 fins and there was just 6 fins left, top row, middle row and bottom row. So, the AGS system kept working as intended, but only operated 3 rows. Maybe it took me 30 minutes. Boosted Motorsports also has a grill removal video on YouTube, it was easy! The motor still runs those 3 rows of fins and no codes get thrown but now, like, 90% of the radiator is open all the time.

Here's what I DID NOT expect! I did not do it for any other reason than keeping the temperatures more evened out so it would hopefully lower stress and last longer. Now, even on those miserable hot humid days, the temps all stay lower. Highway at 70 or 80 mph and she runs at 199 - STEADY. It feels like it's got more pep ALL the time. She used to bounce between 7th and 8th gear on the highway, all the time. Now she just hops into 8th and stays. My average MPG was pretty much always in the 18 MPG area, now it's low 21 MPG.

I think some of these performance things people get, like the cold air intake, they buy it believing it'll bring more power. The engine sound changes a bit, so they think it has more power, when it doesn't. I didn't do this expecting any performance or fuel economy added, but I think the lower temps might help performance more than expected. If you're thinking about the mod, just do the FREE one and delete 6 fins. It's been a month now and it's not just a fluke... it's been a consistent improvement.
 

HDGoose

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Interesting observation. I know that cooling play a huge part in performance of carbed engines. On the fuel injection and computer controlled engines, I'd guess that's how something is being automatically adjusted.
 
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clay282

clay282

Black Betty had a child... named Betty White
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I have tried to figure out why and I can only come up with things like ya'll posted. I didn't know if the timing and air / fuel mixture changed at higher temps to keep from pinging or maybe the remaining fins were enough to still direct air around the front of the truck. Maybe there's a break off point where the added airflow keeps the engine cooler and power higher but the remaining fins direct enough air around it, that you still get some benefit. And maybe... since I leveled it, which changed the rake and maybe changed the aerodynamics, the shutters worked against it.

I also wonder how negatively it will affect the truck when winter hits. Even with the shutters, mines never warmed up very fast. And then the cold winter air is more dense and harder for the truck to push through.

One thing is for sure, get a can of A/C condenser / evaporator cleaner if you do it. The bottom section of the grill that's always open and doesn't have shutters, funnels some SERIOUS bugs and junk through that one area. Mine was packed, out so I cleaned it while I had the grill off.
 

Hound Dog

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great write up, was thinking about doing it
 
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clay282

clay282

Black Betty had a child... named Betty White
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Found this interesting from the weekend. Went to the lake and was pushing against a heavy headwind. Truck heated up and stayed about 203 degrees and MPG dropped to 19.2. Never got close to the 220 range that would call for shutters open or a fan.

On the way back, that heavy headwind was a heavy tailwind and the truck actually ran hotter and than expected but stayed 206-208 degrees, so it never needed the shutters open of the fan still. By the time I got home I was back up to the 20.3 MPG that it's been running since I pulled the fins.

Still... haven't seen a reason to keep them. I don't know what FCA found when they were doing wind tunnel testing and thought something so complicated was needed, but I don't see a reason for them yet.

Home.jpg

To the lake.jpg
 

SitKneelBend

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Thought I would throw this out there. Live in the south and the heat and humidity are relentless all summer. In town I expect the engine temps to fluctuate, but it never sat well with me on the interstate. I get it, aerodynamics etc. Still, I never thought it was doing the drivetrain any good at a steady 80mph, heating up and cooling down over and over.

I've owned the truck for a few years now and it's not had any problems, but I decided to finish paying it off and run her till she drops. Accordingly, making some changes for longevity seemed worth it.

Last month, middle of the worst heat, it's clear that she feels more peppy BEFORE she's run for a long time and the engine and trans are heat soaked. I looked at the mods on YouTube for the Active Grill Shutter delete and really didn't feel like drilling and buying some kit etc. One I found, the guy just took out 6 fins and left the Active Grill Shutter as is. He left the top 2, middle 2 and bottom 2 fins and there was just 6 fins left, top row, middle row and bottom row. So, the AGS system kept working as intended, but only operated 3 rows. Maybe it took me 30 minutes. Boosted Motorsports also has a grill removal video on YouTube, it was easy! The motor still runs those 3 rows of fins and no codes get thrown but now, like, 90% of the radiator is open all the time.

Here's what I DID NOT expect! I did not do it for any other reason than keeping the temperatures more evened out so it would hopefully lower stress and last longer. Now, even on those miserable hot humid days, the temps all stay lower. Highway at 70 or 80 mph and she runs at 199 - STEADY. It feels like it's got more pep ALL the time. She used to bounce between 7th and 8th gear on the highway, all the time. Now she just hops into 8th and stays. My average MPG was pretty much always in the 18 MPG area, now it's low 21 MPG.

I think some of these performance things people get, like the cold air intake, they buy it believing it'll bring more power. The engine sound changes a bit, so they think it has more power, when it doesn't. I didn't do this expecting any performance or fuel economy added, but I think the lower temps might help performance more than expected. If you're thinking about the mod, just do the FREE one and delete 6 fins. It's been a month now and it's not just a fluke... it's been a consistent improvement.
Can you post a link to the video you used as reference?

Sent from my HTC U11 using Tapatalk
 

Ramm5.7

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Found this interesting from the weekend. Went to the lake and was pushing against a heavy headwind. Truck heated up and stayed about 203 degrees and MPG dropped to 19.2. Never got close to the 220 range that would call for shutters open or a fan.

On the way back, that heavy headwind was a heavy tailwind and the truck actually ran hotter and than expected but stayed 206-208 degrees, so it never needed the shutters open of the fan still. By the time I got home I was back up to the 20.3 MPG that it's been running since I pulled the fins.

Still... haven't seen a reason to keep them. I don't know what FCA found when they were doing wind tunnel testing and thought something so complicated was needed, but I don't see a reason for them yet.

View attachment 221029

View attachment 221031



In my opinion one of the easiest ways to keep temps somewhat lower.
I removed all but the upper row and lower row, one on each side upper and lower, no problems/codes!
I did it on my 17 and 2 weeks after I bought my 19 classic.
Temps went from highs of 112 to 115 to now 206 usually. Every once in a blue moon it will get to 208 but not often!
I dont have a v6 so mileage fluctuating by 1 or 3 mpg doesnt matter much. On the freeways Im getting 17-18 if I dont run 85+
 

Tim Garceau

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Still... haven't seen a reason to keep them. I don't know what FCA found when they were doing wind tunnel testing and thought something so complicated was needed, but I don't see a reason for them yet.

You won’t have good heat into the cab until a little longer(Especially if traveling at high speeds) during the winter and will wear out your OEM thermostat faster.

We engineers have all the PFMEA covered, but you guys keep thinking you’re smarter.

upload_2020-9-13_12-7-9.gif
 
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clay282

clay282

Black Betty had a child... named Betty White
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You won’t have good heat into the cab until a little longer(Especially if traveling at high speeds) during the winter and will wear out your OEM thermostat faster.

We engineers have all the PFMEA covered, but you guys keep thinking you’re smarter.

View attachment 221366

Isn't the thermostat cycling even more with the shutters? On the highway it swings up to 220 degrees (thermostat wide open). Then the shutters open and it cools down and the thermostat and shutters kick in to keep the temp in line. repeat over and over and over. I would think my thermostat now, on the highway, is holding in a steady position. In town with a heat soak, it's doing the same thing it would be with the shutters in place.

Now it's cooling off outside and the A/C fan constantly running, seems to be enough to hold 199 degrees at idle sometimes. I idled last night for a good 15 minutes at the drive in and it stayed at 199.
 
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clay282

clay282

Black Betty had a child... named Betty White
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Sorry if I missed it, but don't the shutters stay open 100% of the time when the A/C or defrost are selected?
If they're staying open, I wouldn't think the temps would swing so much on the highway with a steady flow of air. Now that I removed them, the temps stay steady and only fluctuate 1-3 degrees.
 

Tim Garceau

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High flow water pumps in these race engines, without a cutaway video I’d presume a traditional coil spring design Thermostat would either be fully opened or shut.

There would also another prerequisite in the shutter logic for oil temperature in case the thermostat was in a stuck open state.
 
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pacofortacos

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Sorry if I missed it, but don't the shutters stay open 100% of the time when the A/C or defrost are selected?

Only if the AC pressure calls for it - the shutters can close with the AC on.
 
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clay282

clay282

Black Betty had a child... named Betty White
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High flow water pumps in these race engines, without a cutaway video I’d presume a traditional coil spring design Thermostat would either be fully opened or shut.

There would also another prerequisite in the shutter logic for oil temperature in case the thermostat was in a stuck open state.

The traditional coil spring thermostat is what I thought it would have and what I based my assumption on. I thought, as the temp of the coolant rises, the spring slowly opens the thermostat and 199 seems to be the sweet spot where it's open enough, it's cooling, but not enough to cool it down anymore. Sorta like turning on a faucet halfway.

Actually, oil temp is a good question. That is the odd thing I have noticed, the oil temp always runs higher than coolant. I wondered if there was a thermostat on the oil cooler or something that would cause it to always be a bit higher.

 

15 Handicap

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Can you give us weekly updates on how it's going? Very interested in this.
 
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clay282

clay282

Black Betty had a child... named Betty White
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Can you give us weekly updates on how it's going? Very interested in this.
Weekly? Not much to report... It's cooling down outside and everything is staying the same. It was 52 degrees this morning when I headed to the Walmarks. I did notice that it's doing it's usual cold weather thing and staying in 7th gear more. Cold air is denser air and it's harder for the truck to push through it. Haven't needed the heat on, but i'd say it's heating up like normal.

Thanks to Covid-19, I haven't put the miles on it like I normally do running REAC inspections everywhere. Accordingly, I haven't put 10k on this oil change with the shutters pulled to see what Blackstone Lab says about the synthetic oil life, running cooler with the shutters pulled. With the shutters on, the oil analysis said they estimated the oil life to be 11-12k miles. Not that I would push it that far but, it would be nice to comfortably do the 10k miles and just swap filters at 5k like I have been doing, without worrying. I was wondering if the temperature change would make any difference. I did hit 5k on this oil change and did my usual filter swap out. So, we'll see.
 

15 Handicap

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With me in Floriduh heat is important to manage. Thats why I asked for weekly but hey if its cooler now no worries.
 
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clay282

clay282

Black Betty had a child... named Betty White
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With me in Floriduh heat is important to manage. Thats why I asked for weekly but hey if its cooler now no worries.

It is cooling down here now, but I've run with the missing shutter fins since July. I'd think if there was going to be a problem, it would have come up by now. Not for you since you live in Florida... But my concern now is how it will warm up in the winter and fluid life. The only thing I've noticed positive with fluids so far is coolant. I always keep a jug of Mopar coolant because it takes one of the special OAT blends. Usually, at the end of summer, I would need to add some coolant for some reason. I have never seen any leaks in the garage and assumed that it was burning off in the summer heat cycles. I haven't noticed any coolant loss anymore.
 
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