Synthetic Oil

Oil of Choice

  • Castrol Syntec/Edge

    Votes: 233 8.4%
  • Royal Purple

    Votes: 325 11.7%
  • AMSOil

    Votes: 396 14.3%
  • Valvoline Synpower

    Votes: 160 5.8%
  • Mobil 1

    Votes: 992 35.9%
  • Other

    Votes: 660 23.9%

  • Total voters
    2,766

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Travis8352

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I mean that ZF fluid was literally frozen. Pretty **** poor for a "lifetime fluid".
Embarrasing if you ask me. Amsoil it will likely be for me even though i doubt it would ever get cold enough to freeze my fluid considering it never sits for more than 8 hours in the winter time and coldest last winter was -17 and coldest ive seen is -33
 

ramffml

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So I have about 40,000 KM on my truck. I live in Ontario, we regularly get -20 C in the winter. Should I have the ZF fluid changed to something like this Amsoil ASAP? I've noticed long and sloppy shifts, hard shifts etc when my truck is very cold. Once it's hot it usually shifts great, though in a parking lot at low speeds it can sometimes jerk going from 1 to 2.

Any thoughts? Is it worth it to change the oil out at this point?
 

Burla

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Embarrasing if you ask me. Amsoil it will likely be for me even though i doubt it would ever get cold enough to freeze my fluid considering it never sits for more than 8 hours in the winter time and coldest last winter was -17 and coldest ive seen is -33

I just cant see paying those dollars for something that doesn't perform, Amsoil is an easy choice. I'd like to see him do a redline amsoil flow test.
 

Travis8352

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I just cant see paying those dollars for something that doesn't perform, Amsoil is an easy choice. I'd like to see him do a redline amsoil flow test.
I requested it in the comments of a video. He doesnt seem to do redline products at all. Never even mentions them. Perhaps because some are better? He was doing 0w20 cold flows and pennzoil platinum did much better than oe amsoil and xl amsoil but when he did the amsoil ss he switched viscosity to 0w40 pup vs 0w40 amsoil ss.
 

Travis8352

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So I have about 40,000 KM on my truck. I live in Ontario, we regularly get -20 C in the winter. Should I have the ZF fluid changed to something like this Amsoil ASAP? I've noticed long and sloppy shifts, hard shifts etc when my truck is very cold. Once it's hot it usually shifts great, though in a parking lot at low speeds it can sometimes jerk going from 1 to 2.

Any thoughts? Is it worth it to change the oil out at this point?
Mine has a slow 1-2 shift in cold if the atf temp is under 33f degrees. Coldest my atf got last winter was like 15f after work and i let it idle till the trans was 30 degrees since it was in high idle the whole time at around 1300 rpm id guess. Im going amsoil fuel efficient atf unless i find out more info on the motul atv lv
 

Burla

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I requested it in the comments of a video. He doesnt seem to do redline products at all. Never even mentions them. Perhaps because some are better? He was doing 0w20 cold flows and pennzoil platinum did much better than oe amsoil and xl amsoil but when he did the amsoil ss he switched viscosity to 0w40 pup vs 0w40 amsoil ss.

redline is clickish, seams to be well known when and where high performance oil is needed as a matter of fact, not some bull jive. Certain applications have tons of redline users, like hemi only because of hemi tick, Harley's, high reving engines as in tuned beemers, super cars, race cars, etc. Surely amsoil also has their clicks, plus everyday enthusiasts. Amsoil is more of an every day oil as that is how they marketed it. Redline surely has to be the worst marketer out there. I'm kinda surprised when 66 bought them they didn't invest in marketing, if they did they could absolutely crush the fakers and gimmick oils, amsoil clearly not being one of those, they have stayed with true quality. It is nice to see the result, but you really don't need to because the stat page already reveals the performance. Stat sheets don't lie, and you just proved it by finding that video.

If you are going to use a boutique oil, look at stat sheet. If not, just run a cheap synthetic and maybe dress it up with lubegard. No reason to pay premium money for a fake boutique, I will spare naming names but you can find them on the stat sheet. Cold flows and hths, noack there ya go.
 

HEMIMANN

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Hooray for sloppy Chrysler 66RFE!

Down with German ZF8 perfectionism!

P.S. - yep, Amsoil is expert at marketing - noticeably selective in comparison tests. Red Line is just a bunch of racing dudes. I doubt they have any desire to become the Amazon of super oils.
 

Burla

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looks like fuel economy goals also f'd up the German's, did we think it wouldn't?

I'm not sure anyone is in love with the rfe, but at least it is easily serviceable, upgradable, and operates cooler.
 

tfeni52355

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So my 16 Longhorn has been running Redline D6 for about 5000 miles. 72K miles on the truck. Has started slipping when cold just after startup. Usually 1 to 2 and 2 to 3 shift. Pulling up to lights it dumps down into first gear until warm. Once warmed up it shifts smooth as butter. Temps are running normal.

I am concerned about this recent change within the past 1000 miles. I live in SC and mornings are not that cold. I only did one fluid swap and the pan when changing to Redline so most of the fluid is still OE.

We are out of town and will be driving 500 miles home this weekend. I am thinking of draining the fluid again and seeing if it clears up. Stay tuned!


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Burla

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So my 16 Longhorn has been running Redline D6 for about 5000 miles. 72K miles on the truck. Has started slipping when cold just after startup. Usually 1 to 2 and 2 to 3 shift. Pulling up to lights it dumps down into first gear until warm. Once warmed up it shifts smooth as butter. Temps are running normal.

I am concerned about this recent change within the past 1000 miles. I live in SC and mornings are not that cold. I only did one fluid swap and the pan when changing to Redline so most of the fluid is still OE.

We are out of town and will be driving 500 miles home this weekend. I am thinking of draining the fluid again and seeing if it clears up. Stay tuned!

sadly this is not the first report like this on d6 in the zf8, and we don't have any clue to the why. In fact I think this is the third time I have heard this now, Justin being the first. Now, you will have to decide on what to use to change it, I do believe amsoil hasnt had this issue, I believe multi use atf is the correct one but to be honest I am not sure which amsoil the zf guys are using. If a fluid change corrects this you should start a d6 and zf8 transmission thread with a warning. We also have guys running d6 with no issue, but now 3 times I think it is a thing.

This is why brand love is a bad thing, we need to be in formula love, as in formulas that work against whatever issue we are having. One brand might kill it at hemi tick, but not be the best choice in another application. If I had the zf8, I'd go with amsoil over redline just from what I have heard on the board. Who knows maybe that will change as well, but if amsoil works good then we have a real option to deal with the challenges of the zf operating temps. Do you have the thermo bypass for the 8 speed guys are running?
 
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Burla

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But, the rfe seams to really dig c+, so I wonder why the zf8 has some issues. c+ actually cured a shudder I had for 8 years with oem atf. Low bog shudder in 3rd and 4th that I had previously used th to alliviate was gone with redline c+ in the sump, I no longer hit TH button every time I start truck, and rarely use it all. I use it when somebody needs a lesson at stop sign, lol.
 

Burla

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A good time to see if there is anything on redline's stat sheet that different from amsoil multi use?

Kinematic Viscosity @ 100˚C, cSt (ASTM D445) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7.5. . . . . . . . . . . . 6.3 Kinematic Viscosity @ 40˚C, cSt (ASTM D445) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 38.5. . . . . . . . . . . 30.8 Viscosity Index (ASTM D2270) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 165. . . . . . . . . . . . 159 Pour Point ˚C (˚F) (ASTM D97) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . -53 (-63). . . . . . . . -65 (-85) Flash Point ˚C (˚F) (ASTM D92). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 234 (453). . . . . . . 224 (435) Four-Ball Wear Test (ASTM D4172 @ 40 kg, 75˚C, 1200 rpm, 1hr), Scar, mm. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0.39. . . . . . . . . . . 0.41 Brookfield Viscosity @ -40˚C, cP (ASTM D2983). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9755. . . . . . . . . . . 7676


First line is amsoil atf, second is multi use which the zf likes.

Vis @ 40°C, CSt31
Vis @ 100°C, CSt6.3
Viscosity Index163
Pour Point, °C-60
Pour Point, °F-76
Brookfield Viscosity @ -40°C, Poise45


The pour points on amsoil are insanely good, but it is hard to believe that would be redline's issue because those are very good as well, much better then oem. So if I had a guess, maybe redline's formula is too slippery for the clutches in some zf's. Now, 3 experiences doesn't prove anything, but when amsoil multi use looks that good on that stat sheet anyhow, maybe it is a better choice for the zf. Be loyal to what you see on the stat sheet, amsoil multi > redline d6 if you consider the 3 respected ram forum experiences plus at least equal on stat sheet.
 

HEMIMANN

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Red Line c+ too slippery / clingy maybe? Causing increasing ZF8 slippage overtime? Presuming significant polyol ester base oil in the c+.

If the ZF8 magic mouse milk ain't even a pao, then mebbe ZF8 isn't designed for higher lubricity oils. Remember, the Europeans resisted automatic transmissions for decades. I suspect they're still behind US manufacturers in development. And cheapening!

I don't get why Mopar ATF+4 wouldn't work in ZF8.

No shuddering to date in my 66RFE with Mopar ATF+4 oil (presumed API Group III). Changed @ 35k / 4 yrs, and gonna run out to another 50k with the cooler thermostat gone (like things used to be pre-2013).
 

Burla

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it's d6 in zf8

And I have the crappy 545 paired with the crappy 3.55 gears, so I have a lot of range in 3 and 4 gear which leaves me with shudder when its bogging, low rpm shudder, it doesn't happen when its better rpm's. I havent heard this issue with 6 speeds.
 

tfeni52355

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sadly this is not the first report like this on d6 in the zf8, and we don't have any clue to the why. In fact I think this is the third time I have heard this now, Justin being the first. Now, you will have to decide on what to use to change it, I do believe amsoil hasnt had this issue, I believe multi use atf is the correct one but to be honest I am not sure which amsoil the zf guys are using. If a fluid change corrects this you should start a d6 and zf8 transmission thread with a warning. We also have guys running d6 with no issue, but now 3 times I think it is a thing.

This is why brand love is a bad thing, we need to be in formula love, as in formulas that work against whatever issue we are having. One brand might kill it at hemi tick, but not be the best choice in another application. If I had the zf8, I'd go with amsoil over redline just from what I have heard on the board. Who knows maybe that will change as well, but if amsoil works good then we have a real option to deal with the challenges of the zf operating temps. Do you have the thermo bypass for the 8 speed guys are running?

I’ll be changing to Amsoil with this next drain and fill. Probably just gonna go all the way with a PPE pan as well. I was going to run the D6 for a year or so then upgrade to the PPE pan. But now with the slipping and rough downshifts I’m just going to upgrade the pan now.

Would you recommend a multi-drain and fill to get rid of all the D6 I can? Seems it would make sense. With the PPE pan it would be a lot easier.

Kinda sucks though since I have two+ gallons of Redline D6 on the shelf. But if it’s not right, it’s not right for the ZF8 speed. As you state, falling in love with a brand can be a bad thing....

I will take you up on starting a separate thread on the Redline experience. Hopefully keep some folks from some expensive repairs.


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Burla

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I would not do multi drains unless it needed it, try one and see if you correct slipping.

I hear many guys loving d6 in zf8 and think there isnt an issue, then we get these posts and I feel bad about it. I wont ever suggest d6 for zf8, I'll just stay out of it and at least mention there has been some issues if asked.
 
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