Excessive rocker arm chatter.

[Paul lynch]

2014 ram and I've rebuilt the top end with Jay's .5 cam kit, ( cam, lifters, pushrods, springs) It runs great and I'm happy with it but for the life of me I can't get rid of the chatter from the rockers. Never had it before. The chatter is coming from both heads. I have did some research and came across some info about to many shims could cause excessive play in the rockers. When I installed the new springs, it did come with easy instructions, basically stating stock shim first and then the shim and locator that came in the kit next. I followed the instructions precisely. Could this be to many shims? What if I were to pull a shim out? I have a new intake and exhaust rocker arm rail coming in the mail and I'm going to install them on the drivers side and see if that helps. However, I don't see that being the problem.
I've tried a couple different oils
I did make sure pushrods are in the correct placement lol. I find it funny when someone asks if I installed intake rods in the intake side and visa versa. I imagine someone has though. So, wouldn't the removal of a shim tighten the valve train? I got to thinking about the head gasket set I used too. I'm wondering if they were to thin. They were multi layer and they looked like good head gaskets. However, I did get them from ebay, along with a complete engine gasket set. I told myself to buy the mopar head gaskets but they look good. Any thoughts?

 

[Dodge 1500 4X4]

Did you have the Heads resurfaced on both sides, depending how much material ( Aluminum ) they removed you will have a greater distance between the rocker arms and the valve stem, Are the shims for the rocker arm Assembly in this case I would remove them on one side and see if that helps, And
Felpro makes a good head gasket and factory Mopar would be a thicker gasket, was any work done on the Valve seats?

 

[Brian2081]

Ok, been pulling wrenches for 40 + years, haven't played with to many Mopar's, but correct me if I'm wrong but the shims you are talking about are between the valve spring and head.
Adding shims helps the valve spring prevent valve float at higher ram. Milling the heads makes the rocker arms, pushrods and lifter lash tighter depending on head gasket thickness and pushrod length.
By the sounds of it, the rockers are on a common rail. So I would verify pushrod length. How much were the heads milled, how thick is the new head gasket when torqued ? Then start doing the math.

 

[Paul lynch]

No sir, the (aluminum) heads was not resurfaced. The shims and locators are for spring raise, I would imagine considering the new springs was shorter. Also, no work to the valve seat. I just don't understand how removing shims would help but I heard it would.

Did you have the Heads resurfaced on both sides, depending how much material ( Aluminum ) they removed you will have a greater distance between the rocker arms and the valve stem, Are the shims for the rocker arm Assembly in this case I would remove them on one side and see if that helps, And
Felpro makes a good head gasket and factory Mopar would be a thicker gasket, was any work done on the Valve seats?

 

[Paul lynch]

Ok, been pulling wrenches for 40 + years, haven't played with to many Mopar's, but correct me if I'm wrong but the shims you are talking about are between the valve spring and head.
Adding shims helps the valve spring prevent valve float at higher ram. Milling the heads makes the rocker arms, pushrods and lifter lash tighter depending on head gasket thickness and pushrod length.
By the sounds of it, the rockers are on a common rail. So I would verify pushrod length. How much were the heads milled, how thick is the new head gasket when torqued ? Then start doing the math.

Ok, been pulling wrenches for 40 + years, haven't played with to many Mopar's, but correct me if I'm wrong but the shims you are talking about are between the valve spring and head.
Adding shims helps the valve spring prevent valve float at higher ram. Milling the heads makes the rocker arms, pushrods and lifter lash tighter depending on head gasket thickness and pushrod length.
By the sounds of it, the rockers are on a common rail. So I would verify pushrod length. How much were the heads milled, how thick is the new head gasket when torqued ? Then start doing the math.

Same here. I've done plenty of work to chevy and ford engines. This is the first hemi but it might be one of the easiest engines I've worked on, aside from my issue . Correct. The rockers are on a rail. That's what I figured the shims was for so I'm not sure how removing one would help. The heades were not resurfaced and the new push rods are the same as stock, just chromoly. I just got the new rocker rails today so I'll be installing them on the drivers side tomorrow. I just don't trust them head gaskets from ebay. I might have to tear her down again. I should have know better to use head gaskets from ebay but they look good.

 

[Brian2081]

Valve springs are shorter than what you removed ?, if so how much and what are the spring rates of the old compared to new ?

 

[Paul lynch]

Okay, get this! I pulled the tires off and fender covers and fired it up and both damn header flanges had a crack in the welds. How is that even possible? Nearly same locations on the flange welds. Not sure if I prefer the valve train problem or this one. BBK shorty headers. WTH!

Valve springs are shorter than what you removed ?, if so how much and what are the spring rates of the old compared to new ?

Valve springs are shorter than what you removed ?, if so how much and what are the spring rates of the old compared to new ?

 

[ram1500rsm]

When i did the cam in my 06 Pontic GTO and 09 Pontiac G8GT, i had to get longer pushrods. those are old pushrods engines, but i'd think since you're replacing your cam with a little more agressive lobe that perhaps you need longer pushrods as well in the Hemi ?

 

[Brian2081]

Well cracked header flanges sure will make some unerving noises..lol. I'll take the cracks over valve train anyday and twice on Sunday.

 

[1SloRam]

You’re not the first to have issues with BBK shorties, headers alone will also make the engine tick louder, thinner walled headers. But you probably already know that from wrenching experience. Use this as an excuse to go long tube so that cam can breathe better and see the full benefits.

 

[Paul lynch]

You’re not the first to have issues with BBK shorties, headers alone will also make the engine tick louder, thinner walled headers. But you probably already know that from wrenching experience. Use this as an excuse to go long tube so that cam can breathe better and see the full benefits.

I think I just might take you up on that.

 

[Paul lynch]

Well cracked header flanges sure will make some unerving noises..lol. I'll take the cracks over valve train anyday and twice on Sunday.

Yep, I threw a little bit of tig down on them headers and that took care of that chatter. However, with the new top end rebuilt, I can still hear a tap when idling or I can really hear a tap when I'm setting at idle with my lope tune. I believe it goes away when I give it some RPMs. I got new hell cat lifters. What else would give the same type of tap i wonder?

 

[RAMTRPR]

My injectors turning on and off are a little loud. They have over 250k miles on them. Maybe when I get my 6.4 manifold on with the 6.4 injectors it will be a bit quieter.

Has anyone added some sound deadening to the wheel well liners?


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[Paul lynch]

My injectors turning on and off are a little loud. They have over 250k miles on them. Maybe when I get my 6.4 manifold on with the 6.4 injectors it will be a bit quieter.

Has anyone added some sound deadening to the wheel well liners?


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That's a good question. I'm going to look into that.

 

[Brian2081]

Sound deadening the wheel well liners will just be a waste of time and money. To do it right you would (dare I say) rip out the dash carpet and sound deadening the firewall and floor. I agree with Ramtrpr, more than likely you are hearing the injectors operating, 48,000 miles and I can plainly hear mine operating.

 

[RAMTRPR]

I’m going to get a video with my GoPro and see if my tapping noise is the same you are hearing. Have you used a mechanics stethoscope and put it to the valve covers to see if you hear it tapping?


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[Burla]

I’m going to get a video with my GoPro and see if my tapping noise is the same you are hearing. Have you used a mechanics stethoscope and put it to the valve covers to see if you hear it tapping?


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take video clip from underneath engine and get a long one like 3 minutes. The two biggest mistakes are taking it from top side with too much ambient noises and not long enough for people to get a good idea on it.

 

[EdGs]

Okay, get this! I pulled the tires off and fender covers and fired it up and both damn header flanges had a crack in the welds. How is that even possible? Nearly same locations on the flange welds. Not sure if I prefer the valve train problem or this one. BBK shorty headers. WTH!

Beats the **** out of having to pull the heads again, IMO.

 

[RAMTRPR]

Alright Guys lay it on me. What is all this chatter?

1. Valvetrain loose? Need to rockers or rocker assembly?
2. My injectors dying? (I have the 6.4 intake to put on. just have not done it yet.)
3. My New JBA headers just crap? (Had to have 2 holes tapped on the head so if those are to be switched I am getting new heads.)
4. Anything else?


Here is a Video from above the engine:
Here is a video in park and below the engine:
Here is a video from below driving with my cutout closed:
Here is a video from below driving with my cutout open:

 

[Burla]

Below the engine at the 30 second mark really captures the sound well.

That is something not good for sure, and not the usual hemi suspects.

How is engine psi?

Did you change oil since? Any metal?