Gas vs. Diesel, 3.73 vs. 4.10, 2500 vs. 3500

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CoRamGuy

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Ok... I've seen separate discussions o these issues but can't find one where all are combined or that fit my specific circumstances. I'm hoping to come across some new pearls of wisdom to help me decide which way to go because I'm honestly stuck at this point. The only good thing is that my options are completely open at this time... probably why I'm stuck. LOL. I'm 56 and my wife is 54 and we live in Colorado. We've been towing a 2K lb. popup for a few years with a SUV. We know that the RV life is for us and we're looking to upgrade into a 5th wheel to take us into our retirement years and beyond. The 5th wheels we're looking at are the "Half Ton Towables" from Jayco/Eagle HT, Keystone/Cougar and Grand Design/Reflection. Dry Hitch Weights are between 1400-1800 lbs. and Towing Weights range from 11K-15K lbs. Despite how the RV companies market their products we know we can't get away with a half ton truck and we're looking mainly at the 2500 but also potentially 3500. I also don't want to be maxing out the trucks rated capabilities. This will be my first truck, but after doing the research and multiple testdrives I've settled on RAM. That said, the issues I'm stuck on are transferrable to a Chevy or Ford discussion as well. Based on our lifestyle today, the truck we purchase would be my daily driver back and forth to work and I would switch off with my wife from month to month so she gets accustom to driving it as well. Daily Mileage would only be 15-25 miles. The RV would only be pulled 10-12 times per year and within 2-4 hrs max from home base at least to start. As we approach our retirement years and beyond we're going to want to branch out, go further distances and take longer duration trips. Once retired, we envision seeing the entire country and driving long distances, dropping the 5th wheel in place for a month at a time and then using the truck to take day trips. This probably won't be the last vehicle I purchase, but I do want to keep it for 10-15 yrs and it will been to fit the long term lifestyle I just laid out.
I'm looking at the 2021 Rams but know by the time I make a decision I'll be into the 2022s. Big Horn Crew Cab 4X4 is what I've settled on and if fully loaded I can get everything I want... don't need the leather or heated rear seats that the Laramie offers. I'm not opposed to spending the extra cash on Diesel but would not get the HO if I move into the 3500.

So, here are my questions...
Gas or Diesel? In the 2500, if I go Diesel I'm sacrificing significant payload but gaining towing capacity and I understand the discussion around Diesel being best in the mountains
If Gas... 3.73 or 4.10 gearing? Going Gas would be giving me the additional payload and 4.10 gearing additional towing, but it seems it will be rough on the MPG
Short or long bed? 8' Bed is slightly better payload and I like the idea of a 50 gal tank but I'm afraid it will be too much truck for my wife and she wont want to drive it
Do I move into a 3500? A 3500 Diesel will squash all my concerns around payload or capacity but the leaf spring suspension will be rough as a daily driver

If I were to rank how I'm leaning, it would be...
1. 2500 Diesel Crew Cab Short Bed
2. 2500 Gas Crew Cab with 4.10 Gearing
3. 2500 Gas Crew Cab, 4.10 Gearing, Long Bed, 50 gal tank
4. 2500 Diesel, long bed, 50 gal tank
5. 3500 Diesel, no HO, no Dually

Any thoughts? I'm looking for input from the pros that have been doing this for a while. I've also heard it said in other discussions "I've met plenty of gassers that wish the went Diesel, but never the other way around"... so I'm also looking for the gassers in this forum to speak up and be honest about their decision.
Thanks all!
 

ramffml

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2500 diesel will kill your payload, not recommended for 5w towing.

I'd stick with either 2500/gas or 3500/diesel. Can't speak for the gearing, but you have to prioritize what means more to you; towing power or MPG.

So that leaves "ride quality" and the only thing you can do is drive them with your wife and decide after that. 3500/diesel would probably be how I go given your description of towing at least once a month and wanting to keep your truck for years. Sometimes you just need to pick the weekspot in the truck and live with it; you know ride quality won't be the best, but the rest of the truck will be a beast and should never let you down. You can't have it all, unfortunately :)
 

14hemiexpress

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Pulling 11k in Colorado you’ll really want to step to the 3500 diesel. 3500 for the payload and diesel for the mountain pulling. No need for the H.O. That is a lot of weight for the 6.4 going up the hills and the diesel will carry you right into retirement. I would go SRW you can get the 3500 in a short bed as well. You will probably want the slider hitch if you do so but if your going long distance the 50gal tank in the long bed would be worth it. Also ram offers air bag leveling on the 3500 I’m not sure if they use a softer leaf when coupled with the airbag system but that could possibly improve your unloaded ride quality.
 

Bearcatrp

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For get towing with a short bed and a 5th wheel. Am doing it now and almost take out my back window on a 90 degree turn. Flat, I can barely make it but articulate any and cannot turn tight. Go long bed. Am currently looking to upgrade myself. If you can afford the maintenance cost of a diesel, get it. My research on a 2021 cummins is oil change at 15000 miles plus 2 fuel filters at 15000 miles. I talked to service department last week on costs and found the fuel filters are around $400 to change, plus around $130 for oil change. With tax, thats around $600 every 15000 miles.Plus your dealing with DEF. Just came back from colorado pulling my 10,000 5th wheel. My 6.4 did the job but did it ugly with my 6 speed tranny. High rpm's in wyoming. Looking for a 6.4 with a 8 speed and a 50 gallon gas tank in a 3/4 or 1 ton. Get the diesel if you can afford it.
 

NH RAM

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For get towing with a short bed and a 5th wheel. Am doing it now and almost take out my back window on a 90 degree turn. Flat, I can barely make it but articulate any and cannot turn tight. Go long bed. Am currently looking to upgrade myself. If you can afford the maintenance cost of a diesel, get it. My research on a 2021 cummins is oil change at 15000 miles plus 2 fuel filters at 15000 miles. I talked to service department last week on costs and found the fuel filters are around $400 to change, plus around $130 for oil change. With tax, thats around $600 every 15000 miles.Plus your dealing with DEF. Just came back from colorado pulling my 10,000 5th wheel. My 6.4 did the job but did it ugly with my 6 speed tranny. High rpm's in wyoming. Looking for a 6.4 with a 8 speed and a 50 gallon gas tank in a 3/4 or 1 ton. Get the diesel if you can afford it.
Get a sliding hitch if you only want a longbed to save your back window. I have a sliding hitch but han't needed to use it for anything other than making the hookup process easier because I can actually see the pin and the hitch when it's in maneuvering position.
 

NH RAM

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I have a 6.4 with 3.73 gears and I tow a Cougar 30RLS "half ton" that has a gvwr of 11,000#. My empty pin weight is 1546#. I don't tow at high elevation, mostly below 3500-4000#. I do take longer trips once per year, but this is my first year with the 5w and I've only gone 5 hours away with an average of 3% grades. I took a shorter trip of about 90 minutes away towing a lot of 5-6% grades and one 12% grade, but that was short. The truck handles it well and maintains speed even with 34" tires.

If I had the money at the time and if I would have known I was getting a 5w I would have tried to find a Cummins truck IF the ride of the srw 3500 isn't too harsh. I have a bad back and already had a discectomy, so I cannot deal with an overly harsh ride the majority of the year as a commuter to feel that the truck is working less while towing. I have a roughly 1500 mile round trip coming up next weekend towing the 5w and that will really tell the tale. I've towed my 7500# travel trailer to South Dakota and back (about 3000 miles) with the truck and it handled the trip with no drama, but we're about 3,000 pounds heavier now.
 

HEMIMANN

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Loads below 10,000 lbs

2500, 6.4L Hemi, 4.10 axle

Load near or above 10,000 lbs

3500, 6.7L Cummins, 3.73 axle up to 15,000 lbs, 4.10 above.


There, done.
 

Bearcatrp

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Get a sliding hitch if you only want a longbed to save your back window. I have a sliding hitch but han't needed to use it for anything other than making the hookup process easier because I can actually see the pin and the hitch when it's in maneuvering position.
You won't need a a glide hitch if you have a long box! Only a short box needs this!!!!!
 

Bearcatrp

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I have a 6.4 with 3.73 gears and I tow a Cougar 30RLS "half ton" that has a gvwr of 11,000#. My empty pin weight is 1546#. I don't tow at high elevation, mostly below 3500-4000#. I do take longer trips once per year, but this is my first year with the 5w and I've only gone 5 hours away with an average of 3% grades. I took a shorter trip of about 90 minutes away towing a lot of 5-6% grades and one 12% grade, but that was short. The truck handles it well and maintains speed even with 34" tires.

If I had the money at the time and if I would have known I was getting a 5w I would have tried to find a Cummins truck IF the ride of the srw 3500 isn't too harsh. I have a bad back and already had a discectomy, so I cannot deal with an overly harsh ride the majority of the year as a commuter to feel that the truck is working less while towing. I have a roughly 1500 mile round trip coming up next weekend towing the 5w and that will really tell the tale. I've towed my 7500# travel trailer to South Dakota and back (about 3000 miles) with the truck and it handled the trip with no drama, but we're about 3,000 pounds heavier now.

My lowest 6 discs are fused. SUCKS. Unless you invest in air ride, no 3/4 or 1 ton will help you. Nice thing about my 3/4 is it uses coil springs, which helps when loaded. Otherwise,
find a used single axle rig with air ride and air seat.
 

Elkman

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Part of the decision depends on the bed length available with the Ram 2500 and 3500 trucks. The wheelbase also differs greatly between a Mega cab with the 6'4' box and the crew cab with the 8' box. A tighter turning radius helps greatly when driving and when getting the trailer into a campside that is not a "pull through" one.

Payload is 90% determined by the rear wheels and not the engine up front. There are many tires that provide a 3750 lbs per tire at the rear or roughly 4,000 lbs of payload support for a 5th wheel trailer. More than 80% of the pickups hauling 5th wheel trailers on the highways are SRW and I only see DRW with trucks hauling large commercial trailers that are going to have a gross weight of more than 15,000 lbs.

Diesel is twice as expensive in every way and it is far less reliable than current gas engines. I had a diesel for 10 years and finally sold it as too many trips were cut short with problems with the engines emissions control systems. Try driving and merging with traffic when the engine is in limp mode and you are limited to a maximum speed of 55 mph.

Where people often can go wrong is with gear choices and this is why a special order truck is usually the only way to get the best gears for towing. Most trucks are going to ship with the standard 3.73 gears but with a gas engine I would definitely want the 4.10 gears for towing.

Ram for its 2500 and 3500 trucks is way behind in its towing options as compared to Ford but then Ford also jacks up the price by $13,000 to get the special trailer tow package. With the Chevy 2500 the advanced trailering package adds $440 which is not the rip-off as with Ford.
 

OC455

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If the near future you are planning to go further and farther than just 10-12 trips a year, honestly I would go for a 3500 Crew Cab long bed with the diesel. Others may disagree with me, but you will be prepared to take on the longer trips and not have to worry about mileage being as bad with the Hemi. I have a 3500 dually with the Hemi. It tows just fine for short trips but it is thristy towing a travel trailer doing 65mph to 69mph. I have 3.73 gears, go with the 4.10's if it is an option. (I do not know if the diesels have the 4.10 gear option unless you go to dually)

As far as ride goes, I really don't think the 3500 rides bad at all. Yeah, hitting a road bump and rough roads gives you some bouncing around, but it isn't terrible. Not like the older 3/4 tons I have owned where you hit a speed bump and it wants to launch you through the roof.

Long bed, no slider hitches....just drop in your hitch of choice and go...no worrying about damage to the back of the cab or front clip of the 5'ver.

Long beds having the 50 gallon tank option is awesome....having that kind of range with the diesel is pretty awesome in my opinion. Standard Output diesel has plenty of go. 370HP/850ft.lbs is nothing to sneeze at. Making more torque at 1800RPM than the Hemi can will get stuff moving especially if you are sticking with a light 5th wheel.

Just my thoughts if you are looking to the future for longer trips/longevity.
 

tron67j

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Lots of good advice here, I'll add a couple thoughts of my own from years of trailer towing along with the experience of my parents, sisters, and a number of cousins who all travel together multiple times a year. With a fifth wheel a long bed is the only way to go in my opinion. While you can get a slide hitch for a shorter bed all it takes is that one time that you forget and out goes your rear window. Plus with the 8 foot bed you can slide things like a ladder in there more easily. Since this is your first time with a fifth wheel it would be better to get the long bed and get used to towing with it and not having to have that extra thought to keep in the front of your mind when you make too tight of turn in a gas station, campground or other place. In terms of gas or diesel, I think you are looking at buying some set up now and thinking it is going to be your final destination over the next 10 to 15 years. More than likely you will find things that you don't care for either in your truck or your trailer and want to upgrade, maybe near the time you actually do retire. So my suggestion would be to start off with a gas engine and get a trailer that's commensurate with the towing capabilities of that. I have a 2500 tradesman crew cab with an 8 foot bed and have almost 3,000 lb of payload and a hefty trailering capability. While I don't live in Colorado I have driven it with a trailer in the mountains of Virginia and some pretty steep inclines in New York and have not had a problem. Since you're not full timing and you have some time until then you can get a better feel for if a diesel would be the best way to go. Maintenance costs and upfront purchase prices are higher with a diesel versus a gas engine so that is one factor to look at. Good luck
 

SniperDroid

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The first part of DIESEL is DIE! But most of these guys are right. Mountains, payload, towing power and the weight of your 5er, you'll be so much better off with a 3500 Cummings SRW. The 6.4 will melt your gasoline credit card real fast with that much weight. If your going Full Time or even on the road alot, the extra cost of the Diesel will be well worth it... Take care of the Truck, and do the maintenance when required, and remember there's a 100K drive train warranty on the Cummings from RAM. Good Luck and Safe Travels.
 

KKBB

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There has been alot about short bed and long bed. I have always had the short bed and never had an issue. We have the sliding hitch and have only used it once. If you pay attention and don't jack knife your equipment it will be just fine. Like I said, many years of a sort bed and not one single issue. I buddy of mine last year was camping at the same campground as us with a long bed ford and apparently cranked the crap out of it and took out his rear window, so again it all depends on how you drive and if you actually pay attention to what you're doing
 

Scottly

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Had a 2500(in my avatar), now have a 3500 SRW Cummins H-O. The leaf springs are a tad rougher...not by much. Most of the jostling you feel over bumps is the POS front suspension, which is the same on both the 2500 and 3500. The 3500 has a stronger axle, on the new models. Small difference in price...Get the 3500
 

Riccochet

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With the 6.4 and 8 speed you are not going to notice much difference, if at all, between 3.73 and 4.10 gearing. The way the 8 speed trans is geared there is virtually no difference. A little over 100 rpm's.

The better option would be to regear with 4.88 or 5.10.
 

ramffml

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The first part of DIESEL is DIE! But most of these guys are right. Mountains, payload, towing power and the weight of your 5er, you'll be so much better off with a 3500 Cummings SRW. The 6.4 will melt your gasoline credit card real fast with that much weight. If your going Full Time or even on the road alot, the extra cost of the Diesel will be well worth it... Take care of the Truck, and do the maintenance when required, and remember there's a 100K drive train warranty on the Cummings from RAM. Good Luck and Safe Travels.

Hate to be "that guy" but it's "cummins", not "cummings".

Maybe our hyperactive word checker on this forum can be used to **** out the "cummings" so people realize their mistake.
 

ramffml

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With the 6.4 and 8 speed you are not going to notice much difference, if at all, between 3.73 and 4.10 gearing. The way the 8 speed trans is geared there is virtually no difference. A little over 100 rpm's.

The better option would be to regear with 4.88 or 5.10.

The amount of people who don't get this is frustrating. We're not running 3 or 4 speeds anymore.
 
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