Unhappy with 1500 towing. Need Help

[Ram1500214]

I do pre purchase Inspections on RVs . The Grand Designs are a great choice ! Great build outs ! The RAM with the 3.21 is not the best choice . 3.92 would be better . Maybe use the button shifter on steering wheel and use 4 th and lower gears ?Good luck

 

[ian MacKinnon]

Overloaded. keep your speed at 65. Biy air bags for the rear, go to 10 ply tires , load level hitch with a sway bar. safe travels.

 

[Intense-Dakota]

As others have said the 3:21 gears are likely what's hurting the most. I have a 2017 w/ 3:92 gears and it pulls a 6K lb trailer almost as easy as it pulls a 2K lb trailer. This was both in Illinois before I moved and also in the mountains of Tennessee and Alabama.

 

[Freeland Mark]

Today I picked up my Grand Design Imagine 2600rb. I’m a first time RV’r. I was incredibly disappointed as to how the 75 mile ride home went. It was all expressway and mostly flat (It is Illinois) and my truck rarely made it out of 5th gear! My truck is a 2020 Longhorn with a towing capacity of 8120 lbs with a max payload of 1770lbs. 5.7 Hemi with e torque and 3:21 gears. 8HP75 transmission. The trailer weighs 5800lbs dry and since it was new there was nothing loaded in the trailer yet. I used a weight distributing hitch, Equal-I-Zer brand.

At 62mph (with everyone passing me) in a 70mph limit, the truck was revving at 2700rpm’s in 5th gear. I did use tow haul to enter the expressway but turned it off once speed increased. There were a few times on a slight downgrade that the transmission shifted into 6th gear and one time coasting it briefly went into 7th gear but it was brief. The Electronic Range Select (ERS) was not engaged. Upshifting and downshifting were fine.
I have never had any problems mechanically with this truck and up until today (with exception of some Rambox latch problems) I have loved this Longhorn. The 5.7 has always been a good runner for me.

So, please, I’m looking for suggestions from experienced RV’rs as to what is going on here? Is the 3:21 gear the culprit? Did Ram overstate the towing capacity? Just because the truck’s frame and axles can physically carry the weight, maybe the transmission isn’t equipped for towing. I’m leery to add the usual weight of daily necessities for a trailer trip let alone hitting any hilly areas. After at $70K for a truck and another $40K for the trailer it quite disappointing. I’m desperately seeking experienced analyses.
Thanks in advance,
Hank

With a 3.21 gear at 62 mph I am surprised you got in 5th at all. try finding the speed it likes. Try running 70 mph.

 

[turkeybird56]

Well I’m very tempted to start looking at 2500’s or (shutter to think) F-250’s! My 2020 only has 12k miles on it so maybe it’s worth a decent trade-in amount. Of course on the other end of that the 2500’s aren’t cheap either and now that I have grown accustomed to the Longhorn luxuries I would have a hard time with a heavier duty truck without the goodies that I have on the 1500. I’m not sure I’m ready for a diesel. I guess I’ll do some research on the 6.4.
Thank you guys for all of your suggestions. It’s been a big help.
Hank

It is going cost U to get the amenities in a 2500 U have on yer 1500. I started looking to go to a 2500, but would have to plunk out over 70K here to get maybe just a lil better than my 1500 has, or drop down to a Tradesman and be really unhappy, may be why my 1500 still out front.

 

[David Langford]

You are at the upper limits of your truck as far as towing. My son has a 2018 2670MK that weighs slightly more than yours (6600lbs dry). I towed it 200 miles with my 2013 1500 3.55s and it was revving with it. Loaded up it weighed 8100lbs with 1100lbs tongue weight.
I also question your payload. I'd be surprised if you are anywhere near 1700lbs with a Longhorn. What does your yellow door sticker say?
All that said, you still may be under your max limits and your truck should be ok on flatter ground but if towing up large grades be prepared for big RPM's. 3.21's aren't meant for towing

I just got a 2022 2670MK (Great trailer, BTW), and I have a '17 RAM with the 3:92 gears and tow package. I live out west and tow up and down mountains. When we hit the flats It'll hit 8th gear at 70 MPH. Going up grades, I go for RPM not speed, I like to keep it about 4k, because that is in the power band for these Hemis. So, I'm not sure why you'd be stuck in 5th at 65. The only difference between your truck and mine is the gear ratio and the battery system (which I would imagine adds power).

 

[Oyou812]

You are going through exactly what I just went through. I bought my truck first then my trailer and I found my truck just didn't do the job I wanted. My truck only had 5K miles on it too. UGH!!!

I towed a 25 foot Airstream around the country with a 2019 High Country Chevy with the max tow package. It did a good job, but on any steep incline it would downshift and hit 3500 to 4000 RPMs. Going though the mountains in it was no fun either. I decided to bite the bullet and trade it in for a 2022 3500 Dually picked up a couple of weeks ago. I was able to get exactly what I paid for my trade in too.

In our case at first we didn't take too many things. Then we bought Electric Bikes and Inflatable Kayaks, a Griddle and a small Pellet Smoker. Add in a few other things and the payload goes through the roof very quickly. I decided to weigh my truck empty then loaded and I was over 500 lbs. over my max payload. And this is with just my wife and I traveling in it. Add in pets and kids and it gets even worse. I could now see being in a major accident and getting an attorney that for the first time in history put my totaled truck on a scale and found I was way over my payload. There goes the house and everything I have worked for in my life.

I finally had to pick up my Airstream from the dealership a few days ago as they were doing some warranty repairs. It was amazing seeing the difference the new truck made. In my case I was out of payload, so I wanted to be able to take more things along on our 3 month long trips. Having the long bed really helps us with this. And now I can load everything up and no longer worry about payload issues. Also, backing the trailer into the storage unit with the new truck was so much easier than with the short bed.

If you like to take along a lot of toys you, as I did, will be fighting the payload battle every trip. I just got tried of it and decided I have had enough of dealing with it.

My wife commented on how much more safe she feels towing with the new truck. I agreed with her 100%.

 

[Gottabdcheese]

This has been a fun post. I tow a 32” Alpha Wolf trailer with my 2019 Ram Bighorn 5.7hemi w/etorque 2WD 3.21. Trailer dry is just under 6k. When we load it up we are just over 6,300. I live in that 60-62mph range and am mostly in 5th. Occasionally I’ll touch 6th but most of the time in 5th. No issues climbing the mountains and hills in CA. My mpg is 9. There is a great post about the engineering differences between 3.21 and 3.92. If you want to compare them I’d search for that post. The 3.21 is more than capable to tow your trailer at the proper speeds.

 

[DieselDad]

Don’t tow any RV unless you select and stay in Tow mode. You will burn up your transmission early if not. It is the safest way to tow and will save you money on buying a new transmission but not fuel mpg.

 

[BCSTPete]

So your Truck is doing exactly what it’s supposed to do.
1. It’s a gasser (not the best at towing), for that, you need a diesel. Gassers need to rev higher for power.
2. Yes your Gear ratio is designed for better gas mileage. For towing, 3.73 or 4.10 is much better but worse mpg.
3. It’s a 1500 not a 2500 or even 3500. Again, not designed for towing.
All of that being said, you’re close to max on your weight for your truck… it’s doing just fine. Btw, don’t turn off the tow switch. Unless buying a new transmission and or engine is something you’re looking forward to.
A very smart and good friend once told me that I have unrealistic expectations for my truck (In the beginning, I too was disappointed to see my 3500 6.7 DRW FWD, squat 2” loading and have to down shift to 4th going 55mph up a several mile 6% grade pulling my 15k lbs 5th wheel). Not my worst unfortunately, but not my finest moment either.
Your truck is doing just fine for what it is and what you’re towing. If you want more from a truck, you must buy bigger, stronger, and of course spend more $$$.

 

[RaminitinFL]

I haven't read all the numerous responses, so much of this may be redundant. Just my two pennies.

I have a 2020 Big Horn quad cab, 5.7 hemi, no e-torque. When I bought it, the salesman knew I would be hauling a trailer. The one I demoed had 3.92, the one he sold me had 3.21. I was very unhappy, but neither the dealership nor RAM would help me out. I have a neighbor who also had a RAM 1500, 2017, 5.7 hemi, 3.92 gears. His had a 12,000 # towing capacity vs. my 8,000#. From what he has told me, he got around the same mileage I am getting when towing, so I am not all that concerned. The 8 speed transmission really compensates a lot for the gear ratio of the rear end. As far as engine RPM goes, think about it. The final drive is a combination of transmission and rear end. That ratio changes as the gear changes regardless of rear axle ratio, they just aren't at the same points. In any event, the engine needs to stay at a certain RPM to develop the needed power, regardless of gear. My camper is 4,400# dry weight. I'm usually around 5,200 fully loaded. My goal was to stay under 75% of the towing rating in order to have some headroom for hill climbing, passing, etc. I am hauling less weight than you and my tranny is generally in 6th, occasionally into 7th and eighth. On a trip from VT to FL, it went into eighth gear a total of 4 times, always downhill. I always use tow/haul when towing, it just makes sense. All it does is change the shift points, which is easier on the engine and tranny. Without it, there is far more up/down shifting. I've tried it both ways and I don't see any positive effect on MPG, so why beat the truck? The comment about having your loaded rig weighed is a good one, especially for WDH setup. Most people don't do it, but it can have an effect on gas mileage, and even more important, handling. Anyway, for the math. You have to keep in mind that the payload is a combination of many things, including fluids. My RAM has a 26 gallon tank, so I am hauling 156# of fuel. Add to that occupant weight of 400#, gear in the cab at 100#, trailer hitch at ~60# (e2 WDH), gear in the bed at 4300# and minimum recommended 10% tongue weight of 520# and you already exceed the 1,500 payload by 36#. It's really hard when towing to stay that low and I do it by shifting as much as I can to the trailer, rather than hauling stuff in the bed. Each 100# moved from the bed to the camper reduces payload by 90#. Not bad. If you're more toward the max capacity of tongue weight at 15% it's even more important. On my next trip I plan to move even more to the trailer, since it has a 1,500 pound payload capacity which means even loaded to capacity, it only consumes 150# of the truck's payload capacity. I also have heard that the trailer will handle better, but we'll see.

 

[clayinfla]

I have a 2020 Bighorn with the 3.92 rear end and tow the same 2600 RB trailer. My payload is quite a bit higher though-1721. I have not been out of the SE, but have towed through the north Ga and smoky mountains with no issues. I use the same Equalizer 4 point WDH. I have been towing RVs for three years now. My truck runs mostly 6th or 7th gear on the interstate in Florida, typically around 2500 rpm. I usually stay around 65mph. I have found the combo to be easy to tow, very little sway unless the wind is high. Most passing big rigs produce little effect. I suspect you could load your trailer and improve your towing experience with some adjustments to the hitch. But you are in trouble with payload. 900 pounds is pretty typical tongue weight for the 2600 Rb. Many owners end up over 1000. Mine is usually 850-900 for a short camping load. I attached my last CAT ticket before our fall trip to Asheville, NC Last year. That was loaded for a ten day trip just as a data point. My opinion would be that you could make it work, but that payload issue will always be on your mind. You unfortunately have the wrong truck for this trailer. I had to trade a nine month old truck for this same reason. Stayed with a 1500 as a daily driver, but the Bighorn max tow package has been much more well suited than a limited or longhorn. I would have bought a 2500 gasser if I was doing it all over again, but I am happy with my current combo all things considered. Good luck to you, it is an agonizing decision.

 

[bborzell]

Several responses advise the OP to stay in tow mode with 3.21 diff. Is the same advise applicable for 3.92?

 

[Rzrbrn]

Enjoyable thread. I have a 7800 lb tow behind, Blue Ox Sway Pro. Prev pulled with a 2010 Tundra 5.7L 4x4, 4:10 gear ratio. Small gas tank, got about 9 mpg while towing. On the level pulled better than my current 2019 2500 Ram 2500 4x4 diesel. But going up and down hills nothing beats the diesel.

 

[corneileous]

Several responses advise the OP to stay in tow mode with 3.21 diff. Is the same advise applicable for 3.92?

The manual pretty much states that really the only time you should use tow/haul mode is if your transmission is doing a lot of shifting up and down so if you’re out on a flat stretch somewhere where your transmission is staying in one gear for the most of the time then I would say you wouldn’t really have to use it as all it does is just keep your transmission in each gear longer so it’s not constantly shifting too soon and all the time and then actually gives you a little bit of resistance when you’re slowing down as a transmission gears down for you.

 

[ramffml]

If there's one thing I learned on these forums; math and facts apparently matter less than "I feel x". Some people just don't understand gear ratios and they never will.

Math Fact: with the ZF 8 speed, a 3.21 and a 3.92 will have the same RPMs (give or take a few), and the same power/torque while towing the same load at 63 mph. They will just be in a different gear in the transmission.

To the OP; if guys on here are not accepting that fact, you should disregard their opinion on towing performance as its based on feelings and not facts.

And to those guys who don't accept this fact, go ride a pedal bike and pay attention to how the front/rear gears work.

 

[David F]

When you are towing, use the tow/haul mode. Simple as that.

 

[392DevilDog]

Tow/haul mode is how a truck is supposed to act.

It should be the opposite and have an economy button.

People have ruined trucks.

Let that HEMI spin.

 

[corneileous]

If there's one thing I learned on these forums; math and facts apparently matter less than "I feel x". Some people just don't understand gear ratios and they never will.

Math Fact: with the ZF 8 speed, a 3.21 and a 3.92 will have the same RPMs (give or take a few), and the same power/torque while towing the same load at 63 mph. They will just be in a different gear in the transmission.

To the OP; if guys on here are not accepting that fact, you should disregard their opinion on towing performance as its based on feelings and not facts.

And to those guys who don't accept this fact, go ride a pedal bike and pay attention to how the front/rear gears work.

So then tell us…. If what you say is so true then why is it the 3.21-geared trucks have a lower trailer tow rating than the trucks equipped with the 3.92 gears? Why is it the general consensus of the people that tow with the lower gears have a lot more of a pleasant towing experience than the people who tow with the trucks that have a higher rear-end gears? Hell even the OP in this very discussion created a thread about this very thing that I’m talking about… LOL.

Take any kind of oval track racing as an example; explain to me why race car drivers try to get their gear ratio exactly right so that depending on how big the track is, their rear end gear is not too high or too low? Everybody knows that the lower the gears the more acceleration you’re going yet but the higher gear you have, the more top end but there’s also a balance of having all of that just right so that it’s not too low or too high. Same thing for people who go rock crawling; they generally tend to go with a lower gear set so they can get more gear reduction. Just like how if you put oversize tires on your truck that there’s plenty of resources out there online that will tell you which lower gear to put in there to bring your gear ratio back up to where it was at.

Look, if you want to be such an advocate about the higher gears in these trucks, by all means, go right ahead but there’s a reason why the trucks that have the higher gears in them really weren’t made for towing and why the ones that were, have to lower gears and yes, the eight speed transmission allows for a lot of things to happen with that really high of rear end gears but it doesn’t take away the fact that the 3.92 is better for towing but I’m sure you’re gonna argue this relentlessly so go right ahead. We know what we’re talking about. I’m not even gonna comment about that nonsense you talked about with riding a bike… LOL. I

 

[Bricknhank]

Everyone here has been great with their suggestions and recommendations. Several have said that I have the wrong truck for that trailer. That is obvious to me now. I’ve been spending my time shopping and comparing 3/4 ton trucks online. Ram, Ford and GMC. They are pretty scarce right now and ordering one the way I want it will really cut into the summer camping season by the time it gets delivered. I’m really having a hard time with the fact that the 2500’s are all made in Mexico. It’s my issue. I know that it might not bother many of you but with a big purchase like that I want to take care of American Union workers. I don’t know if I’ll find a truck to suite me but I feel that our travels will really be limited with my current Longhorn.