Unhappy with 1500 towing. Need Help

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dwade

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I have a 2015 Tradesmen 1500 and pull an older 24' TT that weighs 7k lbs. Most of our camping trips were local so it never bothered me until we went to Hocking Hills in Ohio. The 1st thing I was thinking was gear change but changed my mind and bought another set of rims and put 29" tires on for our trips. The essentially changed my gear ratio to 3.55:1 and what a difference that made. Down in the Hills of southwest Indiana she pulled through the hills in 5th gear with tow mode on and I still got around 11mpg average over 200+ mile drive running 65mph on the interstate.
 
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dhay13

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I have a 2015 Tradesmen 1500 and pull an older 24' TT that weighs 7k lbs. Most of our camping trips were local so it never bothered me until we went to Hocking Hills in Ohio. The 1st thing I was thinking was gear change but changed my mind and bought another set of rims and put 29" tires on for our trips. The essentially changed my gear ratio to 3.55:1 and what a difference that made. Down in the Hills of southwest Indiana she pulled through the hills in 5th gear with tow mode on and I still got around 11mpg average over 200+ mile drive running 65mph on the interstate.















































































































I am lookat ing
Did you re-calibrate your speedo for the tire change? If not then you weren't averaging 11 MPG. But the rest of your statement is accurate as that would effectively lower your gear ratio and likely less rotating mass so less power used to get it moving.
 

corneileous

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You may want to read the whole thread. Ramffml IS the math teacher and he’s correct.
He may be correct in his math when he says when you’re just going down a flat highway but it really doesn’t matter when you look at everything else. So what if the truck with the higher rear end gears can just downshift the transmission to match everything else as the truck with the lower rear end gears. That doesn’t matter. What matters is being able to get that load going from a stop. Being able to pull the hills better. Being able to get that load stopped as the transmission downshifts when you put it tow/haul mode. That’s where the 392 comes in over the 321.
 

Atcer2018

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He may be correct in his math when he says when you’re just going down a flat highway but it really doesn’t matter when you look at everything else. So what if the truck with the higher rear end gears can just downshift the transmission to match everything else as the truck with the lower rear end gears. That doesn’t matter. What matters is being able to get that load going from a stop. Being able to pull the hills better. Being able to get that load stopped as the transmission downshifts when you put it tow/haul mode. That’s where the 392 comes in over the 321.
Convenient of you to change the narrative of the original topic which was the engine rpm’s at highway speeds. You lost that argument and now try to bring in ancillary points to justify your position. Basically you don’t want to be wrong. Ramffml did a great job explaining the original topic and he showed great patience in doing so. It’s a free country, believe what you want, I don’t have Ramffml’s patience.
 

dwade

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Did you re-calibrate your speedo for the tire change? If not then you weren't averaging 11 MPG. But the rest of your statement is accurate as that would effectively lower your gear ratio and likely less rotating mass so less power used to get it moving.
I used old school methods for that and not the on board computer. I used mileage reported by maps and gallons used at fill up as I knew that my speedo was 5mph off @ 60mph.
 

corneileous

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Convenient of you to change the narrative of the original topic which was the engine rpm’s at highway speeds. You lost that argument and now try to bring in ancillary points to justify your position. Basically you don’t want to be wrong. Ramffml did a great job explaining the original topic and he showed great patience in doing so. It’s a free country, believe what you want, I don’t have Ramffml’s patience.
What? After thinking about it, he does actually make a little bit of sense but again, what does it matter? But you know, be team with that dude all you want. I may not tow a whole lot but at least I have the proper equipment to do it with and yes, I will believe the trucks with the lower-geared rear diffs are where it’s at when it comes to towing.
 

Doug Ram

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"more torque multiplication at speed" .... versus what? What are you comparing? We need specific examples of MPH, RPM, and transmission gears.

At 0 mph, a 3.21 will have less torque in first than a 3.92 in first. This we agree on.

At 62 mph, a 3.21 is capable of providing the same torque and RPMs at the wheel as a 3.92 at 62 mph in 7th gear. This is the "problem" for you, you're thinking that the 3.92 always provides more torque at every speed, but it doesn't. It depends on the gear in the transmission. If the 3.21 is in 4th or 5th, it's making more power than the 3.92. If it's in 6th, it's making the same power.
This guy is right.... the 3.92 ratio helps get the truck and heavy trailer started and helps at low speed acceleration. Important if you are accelerating on an onramp, pulling a boat off a ramp, or dealing with a very steep hill because the truck doesn't have to downshift as much. Once at high speed and on flats, a truck with the 3.21 ratio will have just as much torque in gear 4 or 5 as my truck does in 6 or 7 and the RPMs will be about the same.

But I tire of this argument.
 

Doug Ram

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That's a good question I've wondered that myself, maybe a hold over from the way they have always rated trucks? or they don't want people complaining their truck wont tow their trailer 62mph in 6th gear:)

I don't know.
It' all about low speed torque and cooling. At low speeds (esp below 30) and when starting from stop there is much less strain on the engine and transmission when accelerating. This is because the engine and transmission run at higher revs and will have more fluid flowing thru to keep them cool and are not as likely to lug at very low speeds.

If you get stuck in stop and go traffic you really want your truck to have the 3.92 ratio. And anyone who has to move a heavy trailer around at 5 mph campground speeds should like the 3.92 ratio too.

But the 3.92 ratio does NOTHING to help the 8 gear transmission tow at highway speeds. In fact, once you get fast enough to use that 8th gear the 3.92 equipped truck will hit the rev limiter at a lower speed than the regular ratio truck would. Granted nobody should tow at such a stupidly high speed, so the 3.92 ratio makes sense.
 

Baysider

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I had a similar rig to yours and my first (and last) trailer,, but a 5 speed trans. I went through almost 2 weeks of trips to the County scales trying to figure out why the guys on the trailer websites were telling me I didn’t have enough truck for my trailer. At the end after WDH and anti-sway bars and max tire pressures I had it dialed in to where I felt pretty comfortable with it on the road. I knew what I didn’t know when I started and it wasn’t good. My 1500 was max’d out with my 30’ TT. The whole rig on the scales weighed 11,000 pounds dry. Tow/Haul mandatory. A couple of times I forgot to hit the button and the difference was immediately apparent. We towed it (we are just the two of us) on a 400 mile camping trip with some highway speeds, mostly flat coastal roads. The Hemi did well holding the speed limits except 65 was a stretch. 10 to 12 mpg towing. We thought the trip went well but the truck was working hard. Last December we were offered more than we owed on it by Camping World and decided to let it go with gas prices going up and camp grounds raising prices to ridiculous levels for 2022 season. I kept all the gear in the hopes we might get a smaller trailer one day.
 

Beltsand

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I have a 2015 Tradesmen 1500 and pull an older 24' TT that weighs 7k lbs. Most of our camping trips were local so it never bothered me until we went to Hocking Hills in Ohio. The 1st thing I was thinking was gear change but changed my mind and bought another set of rims and put 29" tires on for our trips. The essentially changed my gear ratio to 3.55:1 and what a difference that made. Down in the Hills of southwest Indiana she pulled through the hills in 5th gear with tow mode on and I still got around 11mpg average over 200+ mile drive running 65mph on the interstate.
How did you like Hocking Hills? We drove through it a couple weeks ago, but didn't camp. We just bought a TT last weekend and are looking for good spots around OH for weekend trips.

To the original topic of this thread, the TT pulled pretty nice. I ran steady at 65 on the highway in 6 or 7th gear. Ran around 2600-2700 rpm unless it was a long hill or high head winds. Watching the oil and trans temps, they did not run out of line with regular driving. I do have the 3.92 rear end. The trailer is 22' 9" and 4500 lbs dry, probably was around 4800-5000 getting it home. All in all, I feel like the trailer and truck match up pretty well for what I am looking for. I figure I can run about 1000 lbs cargo in the trailer and be within payload on the truck. Plan to put it on some scales as soon as we get it packed up for a proper weekend trip and see where we are.
 
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Bricknhank

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Well I guess I’m responsible for some hot and heavy gear ratio debating. I towed my trailer to where it going to be stored which was about 30 miles away. Thanks to the many helpful responders, my RPM comfort level was better than my “maiden voyage.” That said I would not venture out to any hilly areas. I am convinced that for peace of mind and safety sake I need a 3/4 ton truck. I’m going to shop Ram, Ford and GM to compare equipment and price. I started with Ford today and there are not many 3/4 ton trucks in stock. To place an order for one exactly how I want i was told that it is a 4-6 month wait! . I’ll check out GM next and if I can get past the issue of the Ram 2500’s being made in Mexico ill check them out too. Whatever I get I guarantee that the gear ratio will be much steeper than the current 3:21.
Hank
 

IvoryHemi

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Well I guess I’m responsible for some hot and heavy gear ratio debating. I towed my trailer to where it going to be stored which was about 30 miles away. Thanks to the many helpful responders, my RPM comfort level was better than my “maiden voyage.” That said I would not venture out to any hilly areas. I am convinced that for peace of mind and safety sake I need a 3/4 ton truck. I’m going to shop Ram, Ford and GM to compare equipment and price. I started with Ford today and there are not many 3/4 ton trucks in stock. To place an order for one exactly how I want i was told that it is a 4-6 month wait! . I’ll check out GM next and if I can get past the issue of the Ram 2500’s being made in Mexico ill check them out too. Whatever I get I guarantee that the gear ratio will be much steeper than the current 3:21.
Hank

IMO:

Ford

Pro: best gas powertrain combo with 7.3L V8, 10-speed auto/4.30 axle and 34 gallon tank.

Con: hard plastic interior materials everywhere, rough ride

GM

Pro: independent front suspension gives decent ride, 36 gallon tank

Con: old 6-speed automatic with the 6.6L gasser and only 3.73 axle, average interior quality

Ram

Pro: coil or air suspension, best interior quality, ZF trans, 4.10 axle

Con: 31 gallon tank, smallest interior space with old 4th Gen cab
 

Zeak

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While the 3.21 is in 6th gear and the 3.92 is in 7th, they have almost identical gear ratios (3.21 vs 3.2144, so, lets just call it "equal"). Since they have equal gear ratios at that point, they will both have the same power from the engine and will accelerate just as easily in those 2 gears. They are literally "in the same gear" at that point, just using a different numerical value (6th vs 7th) for it.
There’s more to it than rpms, there is a mechanical advantage when turning the smaller pinion gear of the 3.92 vs 3.21. Sure, power output at any given rpm is equal but the mechanical advantage of the smaller pinion gear can reduce the need for down shifting and even allow the engine to run more efficiently and maybe at a lower rpm in a higher gear.

3.21s may be a fine ratio but the transmission gear/engine rpm does not make them equal to 3.92 under load.
 

392DevilDog

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Well I guess I’m responsible for some hot and heavy gear ratio debating. I towed my trailer to where it going to be stored which was about 30 miles away. Thanks to the many helpful responders, my RPM comfort level was better than my “maiden voyage.” That said I would not venture out to any hilly areas. I am convinced that for peace of mind and safety sake I need a 3/4 ton truck. I’m going to shop Ram, Ford and GM to compare equipment and price. I started with Ford today and there are not many 3/4 ton trucks in stock. To place an order for one exactly how I want i was told that it is a 4-6 month wait! . I’ll check out GM next and if I can get past the issue of the Ram 2500’s being made in Mexico ill check them out too. Whatever I get I guarantee that the gear ratio will be much steeper than the current 3:21.
Hank
Unless you go diesel, you are going to have the same RPM issue. And if you go Diesel in a 2500 you will still have "payload" issue.

The Gas HD engines still need to Rev. The 6.4l Hemi still needs 4000 RPM.

And the HD truck is gonna weigh 900 to 1500lbs more than a 1500. So it is gonna give the illusion of being slower.

Unless you are planning to do this every weekend or are going to get a larger trailer...in my opinion...i would stay with the truck you have. Get used to how it operates. Or get another 1500 with less heavy options.

I do not think with you believing 2700 RPM is terrible that you will ever be happy with a GAS engine. They love 3500 to 4500 RPM. AND they can sustain that all day everyday.

And a Diesel brings a whole new list of peeves and issues.

Good luck.

And with the Mexico Issue. RAM trucks are keeping the other plants open...so, as i get your point...you are supporting American and Canadian Jobs also.

Can not win all the battles.
 
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Bricknhank

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I hear you DevilDog but I do have one other concern with keeping my truck for the tow vehicle. I’m really close to being maxed out according to factory specs and most likely over with any weight in the truck/trailer. I’m concerned that if I’m ever unfortunate enough to get in some kind of accident whether it’s my fault or not that if I’m over capacity some lawyer is going to come after me and my insurance company will say sorry, too bad so sad, you weren’t legal.
 

392DevilDog

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I hear you DevilDog but I do have one other concern with keeping my truck for the tow vehicle. I’m really close to being maxed out according to factory specs and most likely over with any weight in the truck/trailer. I’m concerned that if I’m ever unfortunate enough to get in some kind of accident whether it’s my fault or not that if I’m over capacity some lawyer is going to come after me and my insurance company will say sorry, too bad so sad, you weren’t legal.
The great debate of payload and GVWR is not fun.

But for this sake...lets go with the DOT is going to weigh your axles. I feel you would be under all axle weights with the current truck.

But, if you are buying another...but ultimately not getting a bigger camper or doing it weekly...i would stick with a 1500.

If you feel you may get another larger camper or start going more often...then definitely get a 2500. But the RPM issue is not going away.

I own 3 RAM trucks, all Gas engines. I have also owned a Cummins. For what I do....the gas engines do it just fine...BUT, I am perfectly fine holding 3rd gear and running 3000 RPM.

Although the power of the Diesel is great...exhaust brake is the only thing I miss. At my speeds in my area with my camper...there is no need for more power and the Diesel is just such a nail biting experience wandering what the next issue will be. So, the Cummins is gone and the mighty 8.0l V10, the high stung 5.7 HEMI and the great 392 share towing duties at my house. I love hearing them sing their anthem. They work great.

If I could use a 1500 I would...but I haul more than I tow and haul while towing...so I need a 2500 and need the 8 foot bed.

I have one other question...have you camped before? I only ask cause I see so many wanting to be a camper and then realizing they do not like it. You said you are new to towing, just thought maybe new to camping. It is a great hobby...but boy is it crowded right now, and really is a lot of work.

Hope it all works out for you. Bored on my morning break...so just thought i would reply one more time.
 
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Bricknhank

Bricknhank

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I’ve camped plenty, but in tents. I’m tired of that and I want my own bathroom and shower. You’re correct though that it might work out or it might not.
 

392DevilDog

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I’ve camped plenty, but in tents. I’m tired of that and I want my own bathroom and shower. You’re correct though that it might work out or it might not.
Awesome. We still do both. We camp at campgrounds with the camper and head deal into the forest with the tent. Even found some forest sites we can take the camper to.

I just hate seeing people spend money on something to find out the appeal isnt there. Just like when a salesman lies to a customer about the capabilities/capacities of something.
The 1500 truck is so capable. But, it is only very certain trucks that get all the capability. And it is hard to show every truck in a chart...so I try to do my best to explain how to actually know. Then misinformation or confusion also clog the air ways.

It is very confusing and very easy to make a wrong turn.

I hope your search for a truck does not ruin any of the camping time. This current Charlie Foxtrot we got going on is rough to navigate through.

I am secretly hoping the truck market and campground crowds get more manageable with this..but also hate how it is affecting family outings.


I surely hope it all works out. Camping is my greatest relief from this cruel world.
 

Ramit355

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I had a G.D. T. Trailer it was Trailer we had after many years of camping. I pulled it with the 2019 Ram I have now no issues at all. We had the BHGD 30 FT with 3 slides sold it in 2020. Your truck with 3.21 gear is not going to work well especially as all has said to you turning off tow haul. Never turn your tow haul off no matter what your towing too much to explain but for many reasons. The 3.92 gear would pull your trailer fine but I for one was never one to pull any t.tailers 75 to 85 MPH like many I have witnessed no matter what. I think 65 is plenty fast enough for pulling t.trailers imo. Your payload is most likely about 1100 Lbs. Rams have low payloads with high pull caps. but any thing you put in your bed or cab takes away from your pull cap the same as any truck. The yellow sticker will tell you what your loads are for your particular truck as mentioned. I pulled in 6th gear quite often with plenty of torque and power with 5.7 and 3.92 gear with pull cap. of 12200 minus any weights in the trucks to include passengers and gear. (Our Camper empty which is how I always pulled it no tanks with fluids not counting all the chit the wife had in there Pots, pans, cans, groceries enough to live a year) Camper was 8900 Lbs. dry. That left 3300lbs. for passengers, all the junk in the bed, and all the stuff wife had in the camper!!! So I was at or over my limit! If you pull long distances, pull often I would recommend you try pulling in 6th gear with minimal in the camper. If that still is of no help to you take advantage of the great trade-in deals right now and get a Ram with 3.92 gears or a 6.4 2500. My son has a 2015 ECO Ram Laramie Long Horn that does not pull any better than my Laramie with 5.7 with 3.92 gears but it gets about 29 MPG! Hope this may help for you. Good luck and the Grand Design is an awesome Camper!!
 

bucktruck

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Well I guess I’m responsible for some hot and heavy gear ratio debating. I towed my trailer to where it going to be stored which was about 30 miles away. Thanks to the many helpful responders, my RPM comfort level was better than my “maiden voyage.” That said I would not venture out to any hilly areas. I am convinced that for peace of mind and safety sake I need a 3/4 ton truck. I’m going to shop Ram, Ford and GM to compare equipment and price. I started with Ford today and there are not many 3/4 ton trucks in stock. To place an order for one exactly how I want i was told that it is a 4-6 month wait! . I’ll check out GM next and if I can get past the issue of the Ram 2500’s being made in Mexico ill check them out too. Whatever I get I guarantee that the gear ratio will be much steeper than the current 3:21.
Hank
Regarding made in Mexico...After I purchased it and while crawling in, under & around my 2020 1500, 5.7L, ETorque, 4x4, Crew cab, to familiarize myself...EVERYTHING had/has a label that said 'Made In Mexico'. So, it is not only the 2500's or others.
 

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