More oil confusion

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GaryalpUSA

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After reading many threads about which oil to use and what weight to use in my 16 5.7 hemi. 95k miles,I decided to cast caution to the wind. I use my truck to haul my wife's horse along with my race car in the summer months. Im from PA but head to So. Florida every winter. I had the hemi "tick" which turned out to be the broken exhaust bolts, but the noise and possibility of a bad cam follower scared me. The last oil change in Nov. I used good ol synthetic 10w 30. I may have given up a mile or two on the mileage but my idle oil pressure on an 80degree day, engine and oil at full temp never goes below 45 psi. I was surprised by that. There is a good video of a fellow who does a great job showing very low idle pressure with 5-20 oil. It is his opinion that low idle oil pressure is the main contributor to the cam follower lubrication problem. I tend to agree with that so I went with a much thicker oil, especially here in Florida where we still get those 80 degree and higher temps this time of year. I also have not noticed any difference in the performance, acceleration, power of the 5.7 with this oil. If I was in the northern climes during the winter I would still use a thinner 5 weight oil but probably go with a 5-30.
 

HemiLonestar

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Mayhaps post this in 4th gen, since that's what you have (and not where you posted lol). Maybe a mod will move it for you. @G-Ride990
 
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airrecon

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After reading many threads about which oil to use and what weight to use in my 16 5.7 hemi. 95k miles,I decided to cast caution to the wind. I use my truck to haul my wife's horse along with my race car in the summer months. Im from PA but head to So. Florida every winter. I had the hemi "tick" which turned out to be the broken exhaust bolts, but the noise and possibility of a bad cam follower scared me. The last oil change in Nov. I used good ol synthetic 10w 30. I may have given up a mile or two on the mileage but my idle oil pressure on an 80degree day, engine and oil at full temp never goes below 45 psi. I was surprised by that. There is a good video of a fellow who does a great job showing very low idle pressure with 5-20 oil. It is his opinion that low idle oil pressure is the main contributor to the cam follower lubrication problem. I tend to agree with that so I went with a much thicker oil, especially here in Florida where we still get those 80 degree and higher temps this time of year. I also have not noticed any difference in the performance, acceleration, power of the 5.7 with this oil. If I was in the northern climes during the winter I would still use a thinner 5 weight oil but probably go with a 5-30.
 

Sherman Bird

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After reading many threads about which oil to use and what weight to use in my 16 5.7 hemi. 95k miles,I decided to cast caution to the wind. I use my truck to haul my wife's horse along with my race car in the summer months. Im from PA but head to So. Florida every winter. I had the hemi "tick" which turned out to be the broken exhaust bolts, but the noise and possibility of a bad cam follower scared me. The last oil change in Nov. I used good ol synthetic 10w 30. I may have given up a mile or two on the mileage but my idle oil pressure on an 80degree day, engine and oil at full temp never goes below 45 psi. I was surprised by that. There is a good video of a fellow who does a great job showing very low idle pressure with 5-20 oil. It is his opinion that low idle oil pressure is the main contributor to the cam follower lubrication problem. I tend to agree with that so I went with a much thicker oil, especially here in Florida where we still get those 80 degree and higher temps this time of year. I also have not noticed any difference in the performance, acceleration, power of the 5.7 with this oil. If I was in the northern climes during the winter I would still use a thinner 5 weight oil but probably go with a 5-30.
"More is better"? Higher oil pressure never has had any effect on an engine's longevity (stock production). GM ran tests in that very subject and had prototype test cars go out into the real world, and determined that at idle pressures as low as 6 PSI, no long term damage occurred in those engines under all-world conditions. It is so much more about film strength, shear resistance, stiction factors, etc. that one should not get all comfy in the head over an increase of idle oil pressure.

Toyota ran similar field testing years ago, and determined much the same thing.

If you don't have the feared "Hemi-Tick" at 95,000 miles and you've owned it since new, and you've done diligent oil change intervals, I'd caution you not to worry about it.

Videos are rife with subjectivity.
 

gfh77665

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"More is better"? Higher oil pressure never has had any effect on an engine's longevity (stock production). GM ran tests in that very subject and had prototype test cars go out into the real world, and determined that at idle pressures as low as 6 PSI, no long term damage occurred in those engines under all-world conditions.

Toyota ran similar field testing years ago, and determined much the same thing.
More might be better. For decades, tens of millions of vehicles were produced with a "low oil pressure" warning light. These were triggered at 20 psi. 6 psi is less than 1/3 of that threshold, closer to zero.

The constant refrain is "trust the manufacturer, trust the engineers who designed it". If that's so, then they would not like 6 psi. They set an alarm at 20 psi. I am not saying low oil pressure will just blow an engine up, because it wont. Is it good? No.

From the net:
Is 40 PSI low oil pressure?

The ideal oil pressure varies depending on the car brand and model, but generally, the ideal oil pressure is between 25-65 PSI. Sep 9, 2020
 

Travelin Ram

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Maybe higher oil pressure is just trying to tell you it’s being restricted by the oil passages, so less oil is reaching the bearings at the farther reaches of the oil gallery.

Without a controlled study and metrics such as used oil analysis or measurement of wear surfaces this is all groundless speculation.

Change oil regularly -don’t do extended change intervals, use the severe service schedule- and the likelihood of a lubrication based failure is nil. Regardless of which brand or reasonably close viscosity is used. The rest of the truck will wear out first.
 

Sherman Bird

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More might be better. For decades, tens of millions of vehicles were produced with a "low oil pressure" warning light. These were triggered at 20 psi. 6 psi is less than 1/3 of that threshold, closer to zero.

The constant refrain is "trust the manufacturer, trust the engineers who designed it". If that's so, then they would not like 6 psi. They set an alarm at 20 psi. I am not saying low oil pressure will just blow an engine up, because it wont. Is it good? No.

From the net:
Is 40 PSI low oil pressure?

The ideal oil pressure varies depending on the car brand and model, but generally, the ideal oil pressure is between 25-65 PSI. Sep 9, 2020
No, more isn't necessarily better. GM's low pressure warning light switches were calibrated at 3PSI for many years. Nowadays, gauges are not true gauges, but "discreet" in that they display in a normal range at or above very low thresh holds.

One good example was the 2.8Liter V-6 engine which went through many iterations over decades. In it's early, carbureted form, 3 PSI was factory minimum threshold for the light to come on. My 1986 Pontiac 6000 station wagon had this engine, as did many vehicles produced in those days, including S10 pickup trucks.

As the years went by, the size displacement and fuel controls morphed into more modern v-6 engines in the Malibu and Impalas.

Longevity was never any issue due to the fact that upon rev up, the psi went up with the increase of rpm.
 

Sherman Bird

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Maybe higher oil pressure is just trying to tell you it’s being restricted by the oil passages, so less oil is reaching the bearings at the farther reaches of the oil gallery.

Without a controlled study and metrics such as used oil analysis or measurement of wear surfaces this is all groundless speculation.

Change oil regularly -don’t do extended change intervals, use the severe service schedule- and the likelihood of a lubrication based failure is nil. Regardless of which brand or reasonably close viscosity is used. The rest of the truck will wear out first.
EXACTLY!!!!!!!
 

gfh77665

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Maybe higher oil pressure is just trying to tell you it’s being restricted by the oil passages, so less oil is reaching the bearings at the farther reaches of the oil gallery.

Without a controlled study and metrics such as used oil analysis or measurement of wear surfaces this is all groundless speculation.

Change oil regularly -don’t do extended change intervals, use the severe service schedule- and the likelihood of a lubrication based failure is nil. Regardless of which brand or reasonably close viscosity is used. The rest of the truck will wear out first.
Ah, "maybe..." that clears it all up, free of "groundless speculation". Got it!
 

gfh77665

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No, more isn't necessarily better. GM's low pressure warning light switches were calibrated at 3PSI for many years. Nowadays, gauges are not true gauges, but "discreet" in that they display in a normal range at or above very low thresh holds.

One good example was the 2.8Liter V-6 engine which went through many iterations over decades. In it's early, carbureted form, 3 PSI was factory minimum threshold for the light to come on. My 1986 Pontiac 6000 station wagon had this engine, as did many vehicles produced in those days, including S10 pickup trucks.

As the years went by, the size displacement and fuel controls morphed into more modern v-6 engines in the Malibu and Impalas.

Longevity was never any issue due to the fact that upon rev up, the psi went up with the increase of rpm.
I disagree. The vast majority were triggered at 20 psi. This coincides with information that states "The ideal oil pressure varies depending on the car brand and model, but generally, the ideal oil pressure is between 25-65 PSI. Sep 9, 2020".

Use some deductive reasoning, if near zero psi was really good, then why would any vehicle have ANY warning lights or gauges at all?
 

gfh77665

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To avoid further spread of misinformation:




There are plenty more sources, concurring with each other. Easy to find.
 

gfh77665

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That is amazing, that Google can support confirmation bias. Who’d have imagined that?
I have no bias, like the previous posters who posted the misinformation. That's why I looked up factual information from multiple sources.

Its not confirmation bias, its ACCURACY, if you can understand that. You might as well quit while you are behind.

 

huntergreen

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I have no bias, like the previous posters who posted the misinformation. That's why I looked up factual information from multiple sources.

Its not confirmation bias, its ACCURACY, if you can understand that. You might as well quit while you are behind.

Interesting, but along with your factual information, there are hundreds of videos showing other causes for cam lifter failure. Imho, if a higher oil pressure would fix this, the mfg would correct the oil pump. It’s been my experience that when multiple theories are offered, there is more than one contributing factor. Check out the synthetic oil thread and you’ll find some good info and why many folk use 5-30 redline.
 
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Sherman Bird

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I disagree. The vast majority were triggered at 20 psi. This coincides with information that states "The ideal oil pressure varies depending on the car brand and model, but generally, the ideal oil pressure is between 25-65 PSI. Sep 9, 2020".

Use some deductive reasoning, if near zero psi was really good, then why would any vehicle have ANY warning lights or gauges at all?
Read up on the law of hydraulics.... "Pascal's Law" You just might be enlightened!
 

gfh77665

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Read up on the law of hydraulics.... "Pascal's Law" You just might be enlightened!
Instead of addressing me, you need to take your concerns to the manufactures. Quote "Pascal's Law" to them and try to get them to change the warning systems that their engineers have set up over the last 40-50 years. Tell them to reset their systems to a "6 psi" alarm level.

Let us know how that works out for you.
 

HEMIMANN

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Interesting, but along with your factual information, there are hundreds of videos showing other causes for cam lifter failure. Imho, if a higher oil pressure would fix this, the mfg would correct the oil pump. It’s been my experience that when multiple theories are offered, there is more than one contributing factor. Check out the synthetic oil thread and you’ll find some good info and why many folk use 5-30 redline.

Yes, increased oil flow would likely help, but rightfully may not be enough help. It probably only helps the low flow @ low idle situation (Hemi low idle set @ 650rpm instead of legacy 750rpm, another miniscule fuel saving grab).

So many things could be wrong with this lube system! But there is direct evidence that high moly additized oils have killed Hemi ticking. Very strongly points at lubrication deficiency at least partially contributing to lifter roller and cam failures.

Especially since a failure analysis posted some time ago had cam & rollers checked and confirmed high hardness. i.e. - not a quality problem with unhardened parts.
 

Sherman Bird

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Instead of addressing me, you need to take your concerns to the manufactures. Quote "Pascal's Law" to them and try to get them to change the warning systems that their engineers have set up over the last 40-50 years. Tell them to reset their systems to a "6 psi" alarm level.

Let us know how that works out for you.
GM training, from one of their engineers, taught me about Pascal's law. This is getting adversarial.... so I'll ignore you hence.
 

CorDog009

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I’d rather deal with high flow vs high pressure. Ideally you want both to be adequate since you can’t have pressure without flow.
 
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