392 Swap - High Oil Temps - What Would You Do?

Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. If you click them and make a purchase, we may earn a small commission.

jafgreen

Junior Member
Joined
Nov 10, 2022
Posts
8
Reaction score
3
Location
Michigan
Ram Year
2014
Engine
5.7
Did I miss the part where you installed the higher capacity oil cooler ?
More power means more energy, which is more heat.
 

Jupp Mueller

Junior Member
Joined
May 29, 2020
Posts
7
Reaction score
22
Location
Goleta, CA
Ram Year
2019
Engine
Hemi 6.4
Heat transfer through the cooler is proportional to oil flow rate. As you are noticing lowish oil pressure, wouldn't a hellcat oil pump be the way to go? Bigger pump, higher oil flow pushing through those extra coolers and filters, more heat taken out of the system.

Not a 392 expert here, just an engineer thinking.
 
OP
OP
1SLwLS1

1SLwLS1

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2013
Posts
199
Reaction score
243
Ram Year
2013
Engine
Hemi 6.4
Did I miss the part where you installed the higher capacity oil cooler ?
More power means more energy, which is more heat.

Yes, first post, explained I have a cooler, currently not hooked up. It's either high oil temps or low oil pressure in the current setup.

Heat transfer through the cooler is proportional to oil flow rate. As you are noticing lowish oil pressure, wouldn't a hellcat oil pump be the way to go? Bigger pump, higher oil flow pushing through those extra coolers and filters, more heat taken out of the system.

Not a 392 expert here, just an engineer thinking.

I've pretty much settled on the hellcat pump with existing large cooler and remote large filter(s) - leaning towards dual filter but may revert to single remote, haven't decided yet.
 

Bandit1859

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2021
Posts
170
Reaction score
89
Location
Tennessee
Ram Year
2020
Engine
5.7
So I've got a 2013 crew cab with 3.92 rear gears, 8HP70 swap, and 392 swap with MMX NSR cam, stock bottom end, ported manifold, etc. This oil (Redline 5w-40) runs HOT and we're not even into summer (I am in TX).

Little background - fall of 2020 my 165K stock 5.7 decided to tire out and with the cost of new trucks and what I had recently put into the truck, I decided to keep it and upgrade the engine. Then I spent the following 2 years dealing with weak transmission issues and ended up swapping to an 8HP70. I finally got everything buttoned up and have been daily driving the truck since last summer/fall. At that time, when cruising 90 down the highway, I noticed the oil would routinely get well over 240-250F and raise the coolant temp up to around 220F - I have a 185F coolant thermostat that actually works but the delta between the engine's fluids could only be so high. Even putting around, the oil would always get over 220F and would probably average around 230F with reasonable highway speeds (60-70MPH), the coolant could somewhat manage this delta and would lower a bit, maybe around 200F.

So late last fall I put on an oil cooler (34 row 59K BTU) with 185F thermostat in the filter sandwich adapter. One of the problems with this setup was I had to use the small oil filter due to the 1.75" thick sandwich adapter. I thought the oil pressure was down ~5 PSI but I think it may be closer to a 10 PSI drop with the large cooler, I foolishly wasn't recording oil pressure and temperature on my logs until recently. Well that cooler got me through winter (great temps, pressure not so much) but I never liked the small filter and stumbled across a low profile sandwich adapter that allowed me to use the large filter (RP 20-820) and I put this on around mid-January. I did not realize that this low profile adapter did not have a thermostat of any kind and was full flow to the cooler all the time. So I took that off after two weeks and removed the cooler entirely and have been running nothing for about a month now but this oil is HOT and our ambient temps are only around 80F in the evening when I drive home. The coolant gets up 200F with the oil well over 240F cruising at 90 MPH for around 15-20 miles. The coolant falls back down to 185-190F when cruising at reasonable highways speeds and the EOT falls to around 220-230F.

So without the cooler, for oil pressure I would have low 60s at cold start idle, high 60s into the 70s at cold cruising, high 50s/low 60s warm/hot cruising, and plummet to high 30s at idle (800 rpm for cam). So I adjusted my tune (HPT) to raise idle depending on oil temp and basically it is unaffected until around 176F I bump it up to 825 (800 base), 875 rpm at 212F, and 975 rpm @ 240F all scaling between and it keeps me in the high 40s oil pressure at warm-hot idle. I would prefer higher idle oil pressures but c'mon 975 rpm idle on a street engine with tiny NSR cam seems about the limit of reasonable.

So with that said, what are other 392 truck owner's experiencing? I know this engine has the oil squirters to keep the pistons cool and I am sure they are working which is heating the oil considerably more than the 5.7 but also lowering idle oil pressure. Any other engine I would be okay with that pressure but these engines, particularly the lifters and camshaft, don't like to idle with low oil pressure. What would you do in my shoes?
1. Run 5w-50 oil - I already have to keep this handy for the Roush-charged mustang so it would allow me to consolidate engine oils.
2. Remote dual filters (30-8A)
3. Run the large oil cooler I have with a remote dual filter setup, would be rather expensive in parts setup
4. Run a smaller oil cooler
5. Run a smaller oil cooler with remote filter(s)
6. Hellcat oil pump - last ditch effort, I don't really want to tear into this
7. Moroso High Cap oil pan - also don't really want to headache with this
8. Some fancy A2W setup - big $$$
9. Nothing, f'in send it!
10. Some combination of choices or other??
8
 

Bandit1859

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2021
Posts
170
Reaction score
89
Location
Tennessee
Ram Year
2020
Engine
5.7
So I've got a 2013 crew cab with 3.92 rear gears, 8HP70 swap, and 392 swap with MMX NSR cam, stock bottom end, ported manifold, etc. This oil (Redline 5w-40) runs HOT and we're not even into summer (I am in TX).

Little background - fall of 2020 my 165K stock 5.7 decided to tire out and with the cost of new trucks and what I had recently put into the truck, I decided to keep it and upgrade the engine. Then I spent the following 2 years dealing with weak transmission issues and ended up swapping to an 8HP70. I finally got everything buttoned up and have been daily driving the truck since last summer/fall. At that time, when cruising 90 down the highway, I noticed the oil would routinely get well over 240-250F and raise the coolant temp up to around 220F - I have a 185F coolant thermostat that actually works but the delta between the engine's fluids could only be so high. Even putting around, the oil would always get over 220F and would probably average around 230F with reasonable highway speeds (60-70MPH), the coolant could somewhat manage this delta and would lower a bit, maybe around 200F.

So late last fall I put on an oil cooler (34 row 59K BTU) with 185F thermostat in the filter sandwich adapter. One of the problems with this setup was I had to use the small oil filter due to the 1.75" thick sandwich adapter. I thought the oil pressure was down ~5 PSI but I think it may be closer to a 10 PSI drop with the large cooler, I foolishly wasn't recording oil pressure and temperature on my logs until recently. Well that cooler got me through winter (great temps, pressure not so much) but I never liked the small filter and stumbled across a low profile sandwich adapter that allowed me to use the large filter (RP 20-820) and I put this on around mid-January. I did not realize that this low profile adapter did not have a thermostat of any kind and was full flow to the cooler all the time. So I took that off after two weeks and removed the cooler entirely and have been running nothing for about a month now but this oil is HOT and our ambient temps are only around 80F in the evening when I drive home. The coolant gets up 200F with the oil well over 240F cruising at 90 MPH for around 15-20 miles. The coolant falls back down to 185-190F when cruising at reasonable highways speeds and the EOT falls to around 220-230F.

So without the cooler, for oil pressure I would have low 60s at cold start idle, high 60s into the 70s at cold cruising, high 50s/low 60s warm/hot cruising, and plummet to high 30s at idle (800 rpm for cam). So I adjusted my tune (HPT) to raise idle depending on oil temp and basically it is unaffected until around 176F I bump it up to 825 (800 base), 875 rpm at 212F, and 975 rpm @ 240F all scaling between and it keeps me in the high 40s oil pressure at warm-hot idle. I would prefer higher idle oil pressures but c'mon 975 rpm idle on a street engine with tiny NSR cam seems about the limit of reasonable.

So with that said, what are other 392 truck owner's experiencing? I know this engine has the oil squirters to keep the pistons cool and I am sure they are working which is heating the oil considerably more than the 5.7 but also lowering idle oil pressure. Any other engine I would be okay with that pressure but these engines, particularly the lifters and camshaft, don't like to idle with low oil pressure. What would you do in my shoes?
1. Run 5w-50 oil - I already have to keep this handy for the Roush-charged mustang so it would allow me to consolidate engine oils.
2. Remote dual filters (30-8A)
3. Run the large oil cooler I have with a remote dual filter setup, would be rather expensive in parts setup
4. Run a smaller oil cooler
5. Run a smaller oil cooler with remote filter(s)
6. Hellcat oil pump - last ditch effort, I don't really want to tear into this
7. Moroso High Cap oil pan - also don't really want to headache with this
8. Some fancy A2W setup - big $$$
9. Nothing, f'in send it!
10. Some combination of choices or other??
2019 bighorn runs 200 w. 215-220 oil always
 

Hydrasport23

Member
Joined
Jun 1, 2022
Posts
47
Reaction score
49
Location
Mississippi
Ram Year
2013
Engine
5.7
I see that you installed a 185 thermostat. Did you reprogram the fan cycle duty for the lower temp stat? I have the 185 thermostat and my Hemi runs 192 on the highway and 190 around town. Are you sure the radiator shutters are opening? Those temps seem high.
I installed the Mellings high volume oil pump 3 years ago and idle pressure, hot, is 45 psi and 70 at 1600 RPM, hot, on the highway. Oil temps stay below 200 unless towing, then maybe 210. I think Mellings makes the Hellcat oil pump for Mopar.
 
OP
OP
1SLwLS1

1SLwLS1

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2013
Posts
199
Reaction score
243
Ram Year
2013
Engine
Hemi 6.4
I see that you installed a 185 thermostat. Did you reprogram the fan cycle duty for the lower temp stat? I have the 185 thermostat and my Hemi runs 192 on the highway and 190 around town. Are you sure the radiator shutters are opening? Those temps seem high.
I installed the Mellings high volume oil pump 3 years ago and idle pressure, hot, is 45 psi and 70 at 1600 RPM, hot, on the highway. Oil temps stay below 200 unless towing, then maybe 210. I think Mellings makes the Hellcat oil pump for Mopar.

Fan temp was lowered, 2013 model no active grill shutters. When cruising around town or even at highway speed in cooler ambient, coolant temps stay at 185, they only elevate when running hard and oil temp gets up with higher ambient temps. Nothing is wrong with the cooling system, other than being slightly undersized for the higher power and Texas heat - but when the oil temps rise, the engine's other main fluid rises with it. Just this morning, ambient was around 50F on the way in to work and coolant was 185F all the way and oil got up to 230F when cruising 90+ MPH. When I had the oil cooler hooked up, coolant temps were always 185, maybe 190F max when pushing it hard at higher ambient temps.

You installed the high volume pump on your stock 5.7 or what engine? Stock bearings/clearances or? Piston squirters? Do you have an oil cooler? What oil type and weight? I think if I had the larger pump, I would be disappointed with 45 PSI hot idle. Looking at a log from last December, with the thick sandwich adapter, smaller oil filter, stock 6.4 oil pump, and 34 row oil cooler, ambient was about 80F, oil pressure at hot idle (desired RPM 800) after cruising @ 90MPH, was around 43-45 PSI. I didn't have the oil temp logged but ECT was 190F.

When the weather gets back up to around 80F ambient after next week, I may need to hook up the sandwich adapter with small filter and large oil cooler just to get some comparable data logs as it would be 5-6 weeks before I (or local shop) could swap pumps anyhow. I think with that setup (stock oil pump, thermostatic sandwich adapter, small filter, large oil cooler), pressure is slightly lower than I would like (low-mid 40s) @ hot idle and only reaches mid-high 60s @ WOT. I think it is an okay setup, slightly less than ideal, but I really don't like the small filter and the only alternative is to get a remote mount filter setup, which is where I am at now. I am hoping with the hellcat pump, it would add at least 5-10 PSI to hot idle, but depending on your setup, 45 PSI does not seem worth it.
 

Wild one

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2016
Posts
13,717
Reaction score
23,372
Ram Year
14 Sport
Engine
5.7
That's smart to ziptie both ends. I just usually wrap the **** ouda it with electrical tape.
Ps. How's free speech prison? Pretty sad eh!
Trick i learned along time ago ,lol. I'm back,but i do have a few questions for my good buddy maddog,lol
 
OP
OP
1SLwLS1

1SLwLS1

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2013
Posts
199
Reaction score
243
Ram Year
2013
Engine
Hemi 6.4
Alright so bumping this back up with some new data. I think I am settled on the hellcat pump with dual remote large filter setup. I have a buddy/shop that I trust to do the work but it's not within their normal wheelhouse (more performance builds), they're backed up for several weeks, and he hasn't committed to accepting the work, so if they don't do it, I will tackle this sometime this summer when we move out of the rent house.

With that said, I hooked up the cooler with the thermostatic sandwich plate and small Fram filter to get some comparable data to my previous setup which is no cooler with RP 20-820 filter. Ambient finally warmed up to the same as the past couple of weeks (without oil cooler) and the table below shows the data for both setups. Keep in mind, I spin this up to around 6500 RPM at WOT and the idle RPM is scaled with oil temperature (increasing RPM with EOT) in both setups (same table, did not change).

Since this could be anywhere from 1-4 months until I get the ideal setup installed and I drive about 1800-2000 miles/month, which setup would you run with in the meantime? No oil cooler with larger PR 20-820 oil filter or cooler with thermostatic sandwich adapter and Fram XG10060 oil filter?

I am leaning towards no cooler at this point as the WOT oil pressure with the cooler is too low if you subscribe to the 10 PSI per 1000 RPM. Also to be fair, the oil cooler is centered within the radiator for ease of mounting but is not very efficient, I need to scoot it over in front of the grill opening to maximize airflow and possibly drop some more temperature from that setup. Also, with the cooler hooked up, I have noticed a weird whining noise occasionally, sounds just like a bad power steering pump, but I can really only hear it from the driver's seat, cannot hear it in the engine bay and it does increase with RPM when I can hear it. I haven't nailed down the set of conditions to duplicate it, but I am certain it is with the cooler as it started before I took the cooler off, stopped when I had the cooler disconnected, and started back up with the cooler reinstalled. I don't know if there is an air pocket occasionally trapped in the cooler, dipstick doesn't appear to show aerated oil, or maybe the oil velocity is high and one of the lines is rubbing the wheel liner transmitting the noise inside the cabin. I don't know, haven't invested a ton of time into that but will try cracking the top cooler hose (cooler oriented with connections on side, inlet on bottom) seeing if I can vent any possible air, whenever I move the cooler over in front of the grill opening this weekend.

Edit: Looks like I need to update my re-marked oil level as I may be cavitating the pump under those certain conditions, or check the level immediately after shutoff before the cooler has had time to drain back into the pan, or change my cooler orientation to having the connections on top.


Condition (Ambient 60-80F)​
Oil Temperature w/out Cooler (F)​
Oil Pressure w/out Cooler (PSIG)​
Coolant Temperature w/out Cooler (F)​
Oil Temperature w/Cooler (F)​
Oil Pressure w/Cooler (PSIG)​
Coolant Temperature w/Cooler (F)​
Cold Idle​
Ambient​
67​
Ambient​
Ambient​
63​
Ambient​
Cold Cruise​
<140​
65​
<185​
<140​
59​
<185​
Warm Idle​
185​
55​
185​
185​
49​
185​
Warm Cruise​
185-215​
62​
185-200​
185-200​
53​
185​
Warm WOT​
185-215​
75​
185​
185-200​
67​
185​
Hot Idle​
240-250​
45​
195-205​
220-230​
45​
185-190​
Hot Cruise​
240-250​
59​
195-205​
220-230​
52​
185-190​
Hot WOT​
240-250​
72​
200+​
235​
60-62​
185-190​
 
Last edited:

danielmid

Senior Member
Supporting Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2018
Posts
1,491
Reaction score
2,647
Location
Southeast WI
Ram Year
2015 Sport 4x4
Engine
Hemi 5.7
Man, I love a good data table.

I'd lean towards the oil pressure drop being more related to the undersized oil filter rather than the cooler install. Most folks who run the RP filters are running the 20-500 if they have the room, or the 20-820 if not. If I remember right, that Fram XG10060 is the same size as the RP 10-48 which is the smaller size (as you noted) and generally not recommended here. No way to get the RP filter on with the cooler adapter?

The cooler looks to be doing it's job pretty well for oil and coolant temps, my vote would probably be to live with the pressure drop and gain the cooler until you can get the remote set up in for the best of cooling and filtering worlds.

What RPM are you calling Cruise?
 
OP
OP
1SLwLS1

1SLwLS1

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2013
Posts
199
Reaction score
243
Ram Year
2013
Engine
Hemi 6.4
Man, I love a good data table.

I'd lean towards the oil pressure drop being more related to the undersized oil filter rather than the cooler install. Most folks who run the RP filters are running the 20-500 if they have the room, or the 20-820 if not. If I remember right, that Fram XG10060 is the same size as the RP 10-48 which is the smaller size (as you noted) and generally not recommended here. No way to get the RP filter on with the cooler adapter?

The cooler looks to be doing it's job pretty well for oil and coolant temps, my vote would probably be to live with the pressure drop and gain the cooler until you can get the remote set up in for the best of cooling and filtering worlds.

What RPM are you calling Cruise?

Unfortunately to use the 20-820, I would need to either use the low profile sandwich adapter that doesn't have a thermostat (that I already own) OR purchase the improved racing low profile sandwich adapter that does have the thermostat. Brandon-w claims it fits with the large filter, and would be 0.35" thinner (1.75 vs 1.40) but would be around $275 for a temporary solution until I could get the hellcat pump installed. I do know when I tried the Fram XG2 when the 20-820s were on backorder last summer, there was definitely a couple pound pressure drop, so I think you have some truth to that. I definitely cannot fit the 20-500, I have some that my mustang uses and it is nowhere near do-able, unfortunately.

It's a PITA to set the proper oil level with the oil cooler draining back into the pan, evidenced by me possibly cavitating the pump, but I may need to leave it as we're not anywhere near the high ambient temps yet, I've still got 20+ degrees of ambient I need to accommodate so I may need to run the improved racing adapter, unhook the cooler to below the filter mount, re-mark the proper oil level, and run it until I can set it up correctly.

My cruise RPM for these tables is in the 2,000-2,500 RPM range, which affects the pressure +/- 2 PSI from the table.

I know many would accuse me overthinking, myself included, but it is exhausting - I just can't turn it off though.
 

danielmid

Senior Member
Supporting Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2018
Posts
1,491
Reaction score
2,647
Location
Southeast WI
Ram Year
2015 Sport 4x4
Engine
Hemi 5.7
Unfortunately to use the 20-820, I would need to either use the low profile sandwich adapter that doesn't have a thermostat (that I already own) OR purchase the improved racing low profile sandwich adapter that does have the thermostat. Brandon-w claims it fits with the large filter, and would be 0.35" thinner (1.75 vs 1.40) but would be around $275 for a temporary solution until I could get the hellcat pump installed. I do know when I tried the Fram XG2 when the 20-820s were on backorder last summer, there was definitely a couple pound pressure drop, so I think you have some truth to that. I definitely cannot fit the 20-500, I have some that my mustang uses and it is nowhere near do-able, unfortunately.

It's a PITA to set the proper oil level with the oil cooler draining back into the pan, evidenced by me possibly cavitating the pump, but I may need to leave it as we're not anywhere near the high ambient temps yet, I've still got 20+ degrees of ambient I need to accommodate so I may need to run the improved racing adapter, unhook the cooler to below the filter mount, re-mark the proper oil level, and run it until I can set it up correctly.

My cruise RPM for these tables is in the 2,000-2,500 RPM range, which affects the pressure +/- 2 PSI from the table.

I know many would accuse me overthinking, myself included, but it is exhausting - I just can't turn it off though.
I guess I'm not following why a remote filter adapter/mount would not be a permanent solution even once the Hellcat pump is installed?
 
OP
OP
1SLwLS1

1SLwLS1

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2013
Posts
199
Reaction score
243
Ram Year
2013
Engine
Hemi 6.4
I guess I'm not following why a remote filter adapter/mount would not be a permanent solution even once the Hellcat pump is installed?

The remote filter mount would be permanent but a much more involved job due to the crazy amount of fittings required to plumb that up, plus my bench vise & bench is deep in storage. The easier temporary solution to utilize a larger filter involved using the thinner Improved Racing sandwich plate so that I could run the larger RP 20-820, as a temporary solution. Hell, maybe I just bite the bullet and go with a single remote setup with the integrated thermostat and pre-pay for a couple of AN lines, which would also be quick and easy.
 

danielmid

Senior Member
Supporting Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2018
Posts
1,491
Reaction score
2,647
Location
Southeast WI
Ram Year
2015 Sport 4x4
Engine
Hemi 5.7
The remote filter mount would be permanent but a much more involved job due to the crazy amount of fittings required to plumb that up, plus my bench vise & bench is deep in storage. The easier temporary solution to utilize a larger filter involved using the thinner Improved Racing sandwich plate so that I could run the larger RP 20-820, as a temporary solution. Hell, maybe I just bite the bullet and go with a single remote setup with the integrated thermostat and pre-pay for a couple of AN lines, which would also be quick and easy.
Single remote filter with thermostat still gets my vote, halves the fittings and simplifies plumbing. Any local hose/offroad shops that can do AN lines?
 
OP
OP
1SLwLS1

1SLwLS1

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2013
Posts
199
Reaction score
243
Ram Year
2013
Engine
Hemi 6.4
Single remote filter with thermostat still gets my vote, halves the fittings and simplifies plumbing. Any local hose/offroad shops that can do AN lines?

Probably but they'd probably charge a similar fee to Improved Racing, which is $25/line. I currently have -8AN hose, the take off and remote housing can handle -10AN, I am thinking about upsizing as well.
 

danielmid

Senior Member
Supporting Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2018
Posts
1,491
Reaction score
2,647
Location
Southeast WI
Ram Year
2015 Sport 4x4
Engine
Hemi 5.7
Probably but they'd probably charge a similar fee to Improved Racing, which is $25/line. I currently have -8AN hose, the take off and remote housing can handle -10AN, I am thinking about upsizing as well.
I run the -10AN and I think @crazykid1994 runs -10 also.

@Wild one runs -24AN or something crazy I'd bet.
 

crazykid1994

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2013
Posts
5,040
Reaction score
4,963
Location
Florida
Ram Year
2017
Engine
Hemi 5.7
Why not run the low profile sandwich with an in line thermostat like what I did for my transmission. Piece of cake. And yea. Any bigger than -10 an I think is larger than the oil ports in the block.
 

Attachments

  • 409E3095-E121-4965-BFBF-B8536C6CFC00.jpeg
    409E3095-E121-4965-BFBF-B8536C6CFC00.jpeg
    255.3 KB · Views: 12
OP
OP
1SLwLS1

1SLwLS1

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2013
Posts
199
Reaction score
243
Ram Year
2013
Engine
Hemi 6.4
Why not run the low profile sandwich with an in line thermostat like what I did for my transmission. Piece of cake. And yea. Any bigger than -10 an I think is larger than the oil ports in the block.

I was going to do that with the double remote mount setup but the fitting expense and my lack of a bench/vise until I move prohibit that. If I am going remote mount, I would rather have the larger 3/4"-16 thread filter and I can just integrate the thermostat in the remote mount housing.



Goooolly that is one $$$ shopping cart. They're out of 90 degree double swivel -10AN fittings so I had to go with the low-profile remote take off instead of the standard filter take off, and coming out of the filter mount, I chose 60 degree double swivel fittings instead of 90 degree fittings.

Anyone have any experience with push-lock fittings vs the AN fittings? They still use the same flare end connection as the AN but could save me some $$$ on labor.

1679594570787.png
1679594583830.png
 

Staff online

Members online

Forum statistics

Threads
194,902
Posts
2,863,860
Members
155,252
Latest member
radikio
Top