Max towing, for real...

Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. If you click them and make a purchase, we may earn a small commission.

Dave Haddon

Senior Member
Supporting Member
Joined
Nov 19, 2020
Posts
1,002
Reaction score
1,172
Location
Saskatoon SK. Canada
Ram Year
2021
Engine
5.7
Well, I had nothing to do while waiting for my next dog to train to arrive so I read all these posts...WOW..what entertainment !....and what amazing stories to the point of REALLY...people aare REALLY that stupid and we all know you cannot fix stupid..A Great read and thanks to all the contributors..WOW !!
 

09SilverRam

Member
Joined
May 31, 2021
Posts
83
Reaction score
86
Location
The South
Ram Year
2009
Engine
4.7
I understand all that, of course, you should use your brains before you attach a trailer to your vehicle. And "properly equipped", if you go the official dealer, they will tell you that it has to have a factory installed hitch receiver, which my Volvo has, a brake controller, which I am not sure if it has, but can be easily added, and the Trailer Safe Assist is already programed in the electronic control unit as part of the Digital stability control system, and is triggered once you connect the trailer electrical wiring, the car knows that it has a trailer hooked up and behaves accordingly. That's it. Besides that, my Volvo is equipped with rear self leveling suspension, so no squat there when you start driving.
And of course, you take in consideration all other factors, how many people you have in your car, how much luggage, the altitude, all the rest, in three words, use your brains to be safe. And no one in the right mind will use the car to tow a trailer at its maximum capacity, the dynamic loads on the car, specifically on the hitch, during driving might be a lot higher than the rated numbers. That's why I think being at around 2/3, or maximum 3/4 of the maximum towing capacity would be safe.
And we started this talk here when I compared my 2007 Volvo to the 2012 ram 1500, which is also pre- J2807 standard, and everything that I said about what would a dealer say, and about being properly equipped would apply to the Ram too, and any other vehicle before 2014. So, apples to apples. At the end of all, use your brains. And at a dealer, the first thing that they will do when you ask them how much you can tow, they will open the same book or same online information about your vehicle that you have already found. They are just salesmen, they will not assume higher numbers out of nothing, as you said, it's all liability and lawsuit. Here's the book, there's the numbers, follow recommendations. 2007 Volvo xc90 - 5000lbs when properly equipped, 2012 Ram 1500 rwd - 3600 or whatever lbs towing capacity, also, when properly equipped.
The self leveling suspension on the Volvo is interesting since it isn’t complicated computer controlled air. The nivomat shocks are self contained with no electronics and pump back up when driving under load.

Honestly they would be nice on the 4th gen, outside of cost I’m not sure why you don’t see them more.
 

nlambert182

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 28, 2022
Posts
796
Reaction score
1,082
Location
Huntsville, AL
Ram Year
2018
Engine
6.7 Cummins
Andrei you are new here and it appears that you came in here to try to argue instead of to learn or offer up any kind of help with questions. I don't think you'll make it very far without keeping an open mind. Yes, you've repeated multiple times that you would prefer a European vehicle, that you really don't like Ram, and that you're a mechanic and know more than the rest of us. Kudos to you. Still not sure why you're here unless it's to troll.

At the end of the day, a 1/2 ton truck is going to have more payload and towing abilities than a mid-sized SUV in most cases. In the case of a Ram with a small V6, of course it's going to have less towing capacity because of the power to weight ratio. But people don't buy such a large truck with a small engine to tow with. They buy it for light utility and usually for better fuel mileage.

When you start talking about towing, you have to compare apples to apples and once again as many have already said, you're not doing that because Volvo does not use the same standards to determine tow rating as American companies. Therefore you cannot get an accurate comparison. If Ram decided to use the same standards as Volvo you'd likely see the tow ratings of a Ram increase even more. These trucks are physically more capable than they are rated for, but there is a margin of error built in for safety.

I towed a 16k 43' triple axle toy hauler from Kentucky back to Alabama with a 2012 Ram 2500. It was way over the payload capacity (under axle rating) but it moved the load down the road and got us home, so it can do it. Would I do it again? No. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should and just because one line in a brochure tells you that a vehicle is "capable" of towing *** lbs of weight doesn't mean you can ignore the other caveats that the manufacturer tells you about (I.E... the Ford or the Volvo notes). You have to apply common sense AND an ability to properly interpret the information in the owner's manual before you decide what to tow.
 

09SilverRam

Member
Joined
May 31, 2021
Posts
83
Reaction score
86
Location
The South
Ram Year
2009
Engine
4.7
I'm not familiar with Volvo, so how they calculate towing capacity interested me.


I looked up some data on an XC90 on Volvo's website just to get an idea. It does show a max tow rating of 5k lbs (with the note "when properly equipped") unless you have a front wheel drive. Then it's 4k lbs. I also read that this rating only applies to towing in altitudes not to exceed 3,280 ft above sea level. For every additional 3,280 ft above that the tow rating is reduced by 10% to account for decreased engine power. But they don't do a very good job explaining what "properly equipped" means.

It doesn't appear to be cut and dry, which is no different than a Ram or any other vehicle that tows. Volvo and similar vehicles which aren't really designed with towing in mind are very vague in their tow ratings. It will likely tow it just fine, but point being that you still have to do your diligence and look at the data for your specific vehicle, and not use the blanket statement that is in the owner's manual.


The Ford Explorer is an easier one because they do use the J2807 method. Ford also sticks this caveat at the bottom of their tow chart for the Explorer:

"Maximum towing capabilities are for properly equipped vehicles with required equipment and a 150-lb. driver and passenger and vary based on cargo, vehicle configuration, accessories, option content and number of passengers. See label on door jamb for carrying capacity of a specific vehicle. For additional information, see your Ford Dealer"
Further down, they also include this:

"Under certain conditions, however, (e.g., when the trailer has a large frontal area that adds substantial air drag or when trailering in hilly or mountainous terrain) it is wise to choose a vehicle with a higher rating"

And this:

"Your specific vehicle’s tow capability could be reduced based on weight of selected trim series and option content."

You can't just say that if the manual says you can do it, that you can. These manuals are written generically with enough legalese to get them out of any potential lawsuits. You have to put in the effort to determine what is safe and practical versus what the advertisement said it could do.

So you have no problem believing that the ford explorer, a unibody crossover SUV with a turbo 4 with 310 ft pounds of torque that weighs 4700 pounds and has a 119in wheelbase can tow 5300 pounds?

But you can’t believe that the 2023 xc90, a unibody crossover suv with a turbo 4 with 310ft pounds of torque that weighs 4650 with a 117.5in wheelbase can tow 5000 pounds?

The math on that equation is the same.
 

rreddick

Junior Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2023
Posts
3
Reaction score
1
Location
Minnesota
Ram Year
2021
Engine
6.4 Hemi
I just traded 2017 1500 with 5.7 for a 2021 2500 6.4 hemi to tow my 2021 28ft FSX toy hauler.
Even though the half ton could tow it cause the GVWR was 7700 lbs. It is safer with the 2500.
I would get bigger truck for fifth wheel.
 

nlambert182

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 28, 2022
Posts
796
Reaction score
1,082
Location
Huntsville, AL
Ram Year
2018
Engine
6.7 Cummins
So you have no problem believing that the ford explorer, a unibody crossover SUV with a turbo 4 with 310 ft pounds of torque that weighs 4700 pounds and has a 119in wheelbase can tow 5300 pounds?

But you can’t believe that the 2023 xc90, a unibody crossover suv with a turbo 4 with 310ft pounds of torque that weighs 4650 with a 117.5in wheelbase can tow 5000 pounds?

The math on that equation is the same.
I think you misunderstood what I was saying.....

I don't believe either will fare well towing that much weight, but the point that I was attempting to make was that Ford lists a bunch of caveats before saying that the Explorer can tow that weight. It doesn't just say "tows 5k lbs"
 

Irishthreeper

Senior Member
Military
Joined
Aug 15, 2021
Posts
548
Reaction score
863
Location
Florida
Ram Year
2021
Engine
Hemi 6.4
Further evidence of dumb people: I’m selling my ‘21 2500 Hemi and there was a lady in the RV resort that was interested in it. They just bought a new 5W but don’t have a truck yet since they’re here for a year. Anyway, my truck has a 17k lb tow limit, 3060 lb payload and GCVWR of 23k lbs. She showed me her RV details and as soon as I saw 2350 empty hitch weight and 15k lb. loaded weight I told her she needed a 3500 diesel to stay well under all limitations. Also typed up a list with all pertinent explanations that one needs to know. So…she was happy till her neighbor told her she would be fine with my truck, sight unseen, due mostly to tow weights.
He said he was a long haul trucker and knew that stuff. BS! I explained again why it wasn’t a good choice and to buy something that would have plenty of excess capabilities. My 2500 pulled my 10,500 lb loaded 5W extremely well but it’s not enough for the weights she has.
 

Andrei20

Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2022
Posts
53
Reaction score
31
Location
Fort McMurray
Ram Year
2016
Engine
Cummins
The self leveling suspension on the Volvo is interesting since it isn’t complicated computer controlled air. The nivomat shocks are self contained with no electronics and pump back up when driving under load.

Honestly they would be nice on the 4th gen, outside of cost I’m not sure why you don’t see them more.
Yes, it's a cool feature, and the technology would be very handy and very much applicable for most of the pickups. And they last too. At 232 thousand kms mines are original and not showing any signs of fatigue. Very happy with the quality.
 

Andrei20

Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2022
Posts
53
Reaction score
31
Location
Fort McMurray
Ram Year
2016
Engine
Cummins
So you have no problem believing that the ford explorer, a unibody crossover SUV with a turbo 4 with 310 ft pounds of torque that weighs 4700 pounds and has a 119in wheelbase can tow 5300 pounds?

But you can’t believe that the 2023 xc90, a unibody crossover suv with a turbo 4 with 310ft pounds of torque that weighs 4650 with a 117.5in wheelbase can tow 5000 pounds?

The math on that equation is the same.
And that was exactly my point. A Touareg towed a Boeing 747 once, but that doesn't mean that it can do it all the time and it's safe to put it on the road, and it's not legal either.
So we follow the numbers in the Owner's Manual. Where they come from, and what was done to put them there, is not our business, but they're there for a reason. It's possible to overload any vehicle beyond it's recommended payload limit, or towing limit, but that is trouble. You get caught, you're in trouble. You have a 4000lbs camper behind that RAM with maximum tow capacity of 3800lbs, and you get caught, DOT will give you hard time. Numbers are numbers.
That's all I wanted to say.
 

Random_Walk

...what's this bolt do? *plink* ...oh.
Military
Joined
Jul 5, 2018
Posts
1,168
Reaction score
2,062
Location
Out
Ram Year
2017 QC 4WD SLT
Engine
Pentastar 3.6
No dog in any of these fights, but one thing did stand out:

"...a brake controller, which I am not sure if it has..."

Given that most trailer brake controllers have a manual override mechanism (usually a 'pinch' style switch), you would definitely know if you had one.
 

Andrei20

Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2022
Posts
53
Reaction score
31
Location
Fort McMurray
Ram Year
2016
Engine
Cummins
Andrei you are new here and it appears that you came in here to try to argue instead of to learn or offer up any kind of help with questions. I don't think you'll make it very far without keeping an open mind. Yes, you've repeated multiple times that you would prefer a European vehicle, that you really don't like Ram, and that you're a mechanic and know more than the rest of us. Kudos to you. Still not sure why you're here unless it's to troll.

At the end of the day, a 1/2 ton truck is going to have more payload and towing abilities than a mid-sized SUV in most cases. In the case of a Ram with a small V6, of course it's going to have less towing capacity because of the power to weight ratio. But people don't buy such a large truck with a small engine to tow with. They buy it for light utility and usually for better fuel mileage.

When you start talking about towing, you have to compare apples to apples and once again as many have already said, you're not doing that because Volvo does not use the same standards to determine tow rating as American companies. Therefore you cannot get an accurate comparison. If Ram decided to use the same standards as Volvo you'd likely see the tow ratings of a Ram increase even more. These trucks are physically more capable than they are rated for, but there is a margin of error built in for safety.

I towed a 16k 43' triple axle toy hauler from Kentucky back to Alabama with a 2012 Ram 2500. It was way over the payload capacity (under axle rating) but it moved the load down the road and got us home, so it can do it. Would I do it again? No. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should and just because one line in a brochure tells you that a vehicle is "capable" of towing *** lbs of weight doesn't mean you can ignore the other caveats that the manufacturer tells you about (I.E... the Ford or the Volvo notes). You have to apply common sense AND an ability to properly interpret the information in the owner's manual before you decide what to tow.
Critics accepted.
Thank you.
 

2003F350

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2013
Posts
1,221
Reaction score
1,128
Location
Michigan
Ram Year
2022
Engine
6.7 CTD
Further evidence of dumb people: I’m selling my ‘21 2500 Hemi and there was a lady in the RV resort that was interested in it. They just bought a new 5W but don’t have a truck yet since they’re here for a year. Anyway, my truck has a 17k lb tow limit, 3060 lb payload and GCVWR of 23k lbs. She showed me her RV details and as soon as I saw 2350 empty hitch weight and 15k lb. loaded weight I told her she needed a 3500 diesel to stay well under all limitations. Also typed up a list with all pertinent explanations that one needs to know. So…she was happy till her neighbor told her she would be fine with my truck, sight unseen, due mostly to tow weights.
He said he was a long haul trucker and knew that stuff. BS! I explained again why it wasn’t a good choice and to buy something that would have plenty of excess capabilities. My 2500 pulled my 10,500 lb loaded 5W extremely well but it’s not enough for the weights she has.

Don't you just love it when 'long haul truckers' come in and say 'oh that truck will haul that weight no problem!'?

Right there I know they have no clue what they're talking about, and that if they do drive a truck they literally just drive, they have no clue how anything on the truck actually works.

Because heavy duty trucks today have air suspensions that are purpose-built to haul extremely heavy loads, not springs and shocks and MAYBE air bags. They've got completely different suspensions than light-duty (read: 3500 and under) trucks, they've got completely different braking systems, they've got completely different electrical systems, and they've got MUCH heavier frames.

It's not an apples-to-apples comparison, and being a long-haul trucker doesn't automatically mean you have the knowledge of how much is safe to pull with a Ram 2500. Sure, I'll bet he's SEEN a 2500 hauling way too much weight, but that doesn't mean it was a safe pull.
 

Hemidog

Junior Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2018
Posts
15
Reaction score
7
Location
Belleview, Fl
Ram Year
2017
Engine
5.7 hemi
I'm no towing expert, but just remember Bruce Jenner was over towing with his SUV, which caused an accident and killed someone. He was looking at manslaughter charges... just sayin..
 

Gr8bawana

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2015
Posts
1,274
Reaction score
1,059
Ram Year
2017
Engine
6.7 CTD
I'm no towing expert, but just remember Bruce Jenner was over towing with his SUV, which caused an accident and killed someone. He was looking at manslaughter charges... just sayin..
Correct, you are absolutely not an expert.
Wow! There is no end to people spreading false information.
Jenner was not "over towing" at all. The Cadillac escalade had a towing capacity of 8100-8300 lbs. It was towing a trailer loaded with an ATV so I seriously doubt it was overloaded.
 

Zoe Saldana

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2020
Posts
914
Reaction score
764
Location
california
Ram Year
2016
Engine
6.4l
Correct, you are absolutely not an expert.
Wow! There is no end to people spreading false information.
Jenner was not "over towing" at all. The Cadillac escalade had a towing capacity of 8100-8300 lbs. It was towing a trailer loaded with an ATV so I seriously doubt it was overloaded.
" not an expert."
A lot of those. They know they are not an expert. But they continue to post.
 

tron67j

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2019
Posts
2,794
Reaction score
2,827
Location
Maryland
Ram Year
2018
Engine
6.4 Hemi
I was at a campground this past week. Guy comes in with a massive 5th wheel, and trees blocking truck. Another perso goes to help and I hear the driver say he just got his new F250 with diesel so he had more capacity to tow his also new fiver. I don't know numbers but had bedroom slider plus two living sliders. I watched him hook up a couple days later, that bed just kept going down. The guy who originally helped happened to be sitting in his golf cart, waved to the driver then looked at me and rolled his eyes.

Payload capacity matters. In this case, the guy kind of had too much engine for what he could probably tow with the 3/4 ton CC 8' bed. The engine weight was hurting him.
 
OP
OP
R

RAMblin_Man

Junior Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2022
Posts
3
Reaction score
0
Location
New York
Ram Year
2012
Engine
3.7 liter V6
Can it? Sure, just watch some YouTube videos of grossly overloaded trucks in third world countries. Or pulling fivers with VW Beetles.

Should you? Absolutely not. Don’t take any advice from that hitch guy. He’s dangerous.

Frankly this sounds like a troll post; it’s hard to imagine that anyone who already owns a fifth wheel could be so uninformed about what it takes to tow it.
Not a troll post. Bought the 5th wheel, already in place at a campsite, so I've never had any occasion to move it yet.
 

nlambert182

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 28, 2022
Posts
796
Reaction score
1,082
Location
Huntsville, AL
Ram Year
2018
Engine
6.7 Cummins
Not a troll post. Bought the 5th wheel, already in place at a campsite, so I've never had any occasion to move it yet.
I hope you plan on buying a truck (or paying a tow company) when it's time to move it. You need at least a 3/4 ton.... If you attempt to tow it with what you have in your sig, it will not end well.
 

Members online

Forum statistics

Threads
194,902
Posts
2,863,861
Members
155,252
Latest member
radikio
Top