Well the numbers are finally in:)

NCRaineman · Jul 19, 2018

6PSI intercooled is good and conservative... so long as the tuner knew his stuff you shouldn't have any problems on stock internals.

chrisp2493 · Jul 19, 2018

BTD07 said:
Whats your all in cost for that extra 100 hp?

Umm extra 100 hp? Do you not understand how dynos and factory hp ratings work? That’s almost 200 hp gained brother

I Bleed Ram Trucks

Tach_tech · Jul 19, 2018

chrisp2493 said:
Umm extra 100 hp? Do you not understand how dynos and factory hp ratings work? That’s almost 200 hp gained brother

I Bleed Ram Trucks

It’s already been discussed.

Tach_tech · Jul 19, 2018

We’re your numbers corrected? What elevation? I’d be curious how it fairs against the whip please.

Ramitiner · Jul 19, 2018

blackbetty14 · Jul 23, 2018

Overall nice setup. But something is off on those numbers. Heres why...

Your dyno numbers are all over the place, you have a bunch of pulls to 5350/5400 and they range from 430hp-515hp, unless these are in the tuning process, coming in slow or ramping up timing from a low number to be safe. But if the 515rwhp is accurate and the final number thats wayyy high. The supercharger requires power to make power (unlike a turbo) so if you calculate a 20-25% loss for drivetrain (big truck, big tranny, big DS and a large Dana rear) I would think 25% drivetrain loss would be accurate. Stock 5.7 hemi is 395hp, calculate +30hp with headers and TB. That gives you 425hp at the CRANK! Now minus 25% for drivetrain loss = (-106hp) 318rwhp. Thats your base number with the headers + TB. Boost will double your HP at 14-15psi (ideal), so at 6psi I would expect 40% increase which is pretty standard. 40% of 425 = 170hp so you could gain 170hp + 425hp base = 595hp. If you Still calculate the 25% loss (-149hp) your at 446rwhp... and that isn't even taking into account the HP that the blower is eating to make power. It would not be hard for that blower to eat 40-50hp at 6psi which brings down those numbers big time.

All I'm saying is that the math doesn't add up, 6psi is low boost, 40%-50% increase is good and even at 6psi the truck should feel like a whole new animal. If you were closer to 10-12psi I might believe the numbers as you would be close to doubling your power. Or if you had a car with a light drivetrain and a manual trans.

Either way Its a nice setup and you'll enjoy the boost/power... its addicting! No one ever stays at low boost for long. I ran 12psi on a centri which was fun but always had to worry about belt slip depending on how fast I got on it (rpm rise) and when the boost started lol. Now I turbo and at 14psi its a huge difference compared to 6psi, but I wouldnt do that in a 50k truck as my DD. One thing I always hated about blowers is the BOV streetsweeper noise... its just the worst!

Tach_tech · Jul 23, 2018

I’d say those numbers are fairly accurate, depending on altitude and if the numbers are corrected or not. My truck with the whipple at 7psi did 505whp. Buddies truck did virtually the same numbers. Uncorrected and at 3000ft. No headers or tb, just a cat back exhaust.

blackbetty14 · Jul 23, 2018

very well could be. This is basing off the factory rated 395hp... who knows what the hemi 5.7 actually puts out. GM is very conservative with there HP ratings. Still 500whp at 6psi is pretty damn good in a big truck at low boost, just seems high to me. Whipples are a different breed than the Centri, I prefer whipple or PD blowers on the street.

RedSRT4Me · Jul 23, 2018

blackbetty14 said:
Overall nice setup. But something is off on those numbers. Heres why...

Your dyno numbers are all over the place, you have a bunch of pulls to 5350/5400 and they range from 430hp-515hp, unless these are in the tuning process, coming in slow or ramping up timing from a low number to be safe. But if the 515rwhp is accurate and the final number thats wayyy high. The supercharger requires power to make power (unlike a turbo) so if you calculate a 20-25% loss for drivetrain (big truck, big tranny, big DS and a large Dana rear) I would think 25% drivetrain loss would be accurate. Stock 5.7 hemi is 395hp, calculate +30hp with headers and TB. That gives you 425hp at the CRANK! Now minus 25% for drivetrain loss = (-106hp) 318rwhp. Thats your base number with the headers + TB. Boost will double your HP at 14-15psi (ideal), so at 6psi I would expect 40% increase which is pretty standard. 40% of 425 = 170hp so you could gain 170hp + 425hp base = 595hp. If you Still calculate the 25% loss (-149hp) your at 446rwhp... and that isn't even taking into account the HP that the blower is eating to make power. It would not be hard for that blower to eat 40-50hp at 6psi which brings down those numbers big time.

All I'm saying is that the math doesn't add up, 6psi is low boost, 40%-50% increase is good and even at 6psi the truck should feel like a whole new animal. If you were closer to 10-12psi I might believe the numbers as you would be close to doubling your power. Or if you had a car with a light drivetrain and a manual trans.

Either way Its a nice setup and you'll enjoy the boost/power... its addicting! No one ever stays at low boost for long. I ran 12psi on a centri which was fun but always had to worry about belt slip depending on how fast I got on it (rpm rise) and when the boost started lol. Now I turbo and at 14psi its a huge difference compared to 6psi, but I wouldnt do that in a 50k truck as my DD. One thing I always hated about blowers is the BOV streetsweeper noise... its just the worst!

While I don't disagree with this logic, LT's make 25-30whp. I promise you this. Its definitely one of the best bangs for the buck even if you spend just under 2k for ARH.

If you bump the LT's and TB to 50-55 crank hp the numbers don't seem that far off. Also TB is going to make a difference with that blower finally.

I don't think his numbers are off but I'm still scratching my head on how to get the tranny to lock a gear without downshifting. Most Rams have odd graphs because the truck downshifts during the pull spiking the tq numbers.

Matt said his dyno operator was able to do that and you can see the result in his video.

All in all thank you OP for sharing your results. I know I've learned a lot about this vehicle from this forum or pointing me in the right direction to find my answers

Nick@GotExhaust · Jul 23, 2018

impressive #'s definitely want to see some video WOT pulls on the "streets of Mexico" lol

blackbetty14 · Jul 23, 2018

RedSRT4Me said:
While I don't disagree with this logic, LT's make 25-30whp. I promise you this. Its definitely one of the best bangs for the buck even if you spend just under 2k for ARH.

If you bump the LT's and TB to 50-55 crank hp the numbers don't seem that far off. Also TB is going to make a difference with that blower finally.

I don't think his numbers are off but I'm still scratching my head on how to get the tranny to lock a gear without downshifting. Most Rams have odd graphs because the truck downshifts during the pull spiking the tq numbers.

Matt said his dyno operator was able to do that and you can see the result in his video.

All in all thank you OP for sharing your results. I know I've learned a lot about this vehicle from this forum or pointing me in the right direction to find my answers

I was being conservative (no tune) just exhaust installed. Most of the power is gained from the tune in conjunction with the headers/ypipe.

For 2k I could build a rear mount turbo, with FMIC and get the ECM tuned. I still feel like the 50-55 crank hp would just about negate the power eaten by the blower. Could just be a happy dyno lol. Still I'm sure its fun to drive!

chrisp2493 · Jul 23, 2018

blackbetty14 said:
I was being conservative (no tune) just exhaust installed. Most of the power is gained from the tune in conjunction with the headers/ypipe.

For 2k I could build a rear mount turbo, with FMIC and get the ECM tuned. I still feel like the 50-55 crank hp would just about negate the power eaten by the blower. Could just be a happy dyno lol. Still I'm sure its fun to drive!

Where is this 2k turbo setup? Because I’ve never seen one put on a ram for ANYWHERE near that low...

I Bleed Ram Trucks

Tach_tech · Jul 23, 2018

RedSRT4Me said:
While I don't disagree with this logic, LT's make 25-30whp. I promise you this. Its definitely one of the best bangs for the buck even if you spend just under 2k for ARH.

If you bump the LT's and TB to 50-55 crank hp the numbers don't seem that far off. Also TB is going to make a difference with that blower finally.

I don't think his numbers are off but I'm still scratching my head on how to get the tranny to lock a gear without downshifting. Most Rams have odd graphs because the truck downshifts during the pull spiking the tq numbers.

Matt said his dyno operator was able to do that and you can see the result in his video.

All in all thank you OP for sharing your results. I know I've learned a lot about this vehicle from this forum or pointing me in the right direction to find my answers

blackbetty14 said:
I was being conservative (no tune) just exhaust installed. Most of the power is gained from the tune in conjunction with the headers/ypipe.

For 2k I could build a rear mount turbo, with FMIC and get the ECM tuned. I still feel like the 50-55 crank hp would just about negate the power eaten by the blower. Could just be a happy dyno lol. Still I'm sure its fun to drive!

It’s not 50hp to spin a blower, unless we’re talking about 871 and up. A centrifugal blower takes even less. Something like a whipple/magnusson etc is going to be like 15-20hp.

RedSRT4Me · Jul 23, 2018

blackbetty14 said:
I was being conservative (no tune) just exhaust installed. Most of the power is gained from the tune in conjunction with the headers/ypipe.

Again im telling you that 30whp gain is before running a custom tune. I had just a canned 91 diablo tune when I got my headers on. They are a badass modification.

blackbetty14 · Jul 24, 2018

chrisp2493 said:
Where is this 2k turbo setup? Because I’ve never seen one put on a ram for ANYWHERE near that low...

I Bleed Ram Trucks

Seriously? I have a $1200 hotside with turbo, $100 ebay FMIC and a $100 IC piping kit thats only $1400 for 650rwhp. You can get at least 4 turbos at less than $600 that will make 600-750rwhp, 76/65, 78/75 cast, 78/75 billet, GT45 ebay special. $2k is ALOT of money if your doing it yourself. But like I said I used a $1200 CX hotside that I actually got for $1100 on sale. But its a moot point as the Ram exhaust is perfect for a rear turbo already.

A remote mount turbo on our ram the hotside is done! The manifolds and cats won't affect performance (the manifolds will actually help over headers) and Ram has already set it up with a single 3" exhaust. Run that to the turbo and its just running a cold side back to the front to a FMIC or A2W or watermeth to make it super simple. You can run a DP right off the turbo and be done and sound awsome.

blackbetty14 · Jul 24, 2018

Tach_tech said:
It’s not 50hp to spin a blower, unless we’re talking about 871 and up. A centrifugal blower takes even less. Something like a whipple/magnusson etc is going to be like 15-20hp.

HAHAHA are you kidding me? 50HP is actually ALOT less than a PD style blower will normally eat. I called the guys at TQ storm and they informed me it will take 50hp on their CENTRI to spin at boost (small blower, efficient to 750hp). I mean an alternator generally consumes 5-10hp and a mechanical waterpump is about equal. You guys think a giant Mass of metal spinning at 50k+ rpms while compressing air into a restriction is only robbing 15-20hp? It is low boost at 6lb but still I would believe its closer to 40+hp.

Just some knowledge for you gents... Of course it all depends on how much Boost, the supercharger design, Cold side restrictions, blade design... but you get the point.

"Vortech told me that a YS Trim at 60000rpm impeller speed was calculated at around 120 hp."

"I was always told that the general rule was 5 horsepower for every pound of peak boost. Sounds about right if you think about it. I make 8 psi and I would guess I give away about 40 horse to spin the blower."

"A Top Fuel rail or Funny Car takes 500 hp to spin the blower. The blower is also rebuilt every 2 passes."

"That said, a centrifugal blower blower typically consumes the equivalent of 15-20% of your flywheel hp at elevated boost levels. That is to say if you're making 1000hp at the flywheel, the blower input power approximately 150-200hp."

"the only rule of thumb I remember from school on turbo/super chargeing is that for every 100 hp you make you lose 10hp with the turbo and 30 with the blower."

Links:
http://fepower.net/Dyno Results/dyno_results_14.html
https://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=69420

blackbetty14 · Jul 24, 2018

So if you take into account all that crap I just threw at you and loosely figured out loss through the SC I think you'd be surprised. Granted its making more power than its consuming so its a WIN but you could make more power with a more efficient form of boost.

I would think 10psi+ is elevated boost since even at 4-6psi you dont really need to retard timing or change the tune minus fuel as a rule of thumb. So figure 10-12psi = 15-20% loss so your at 6psi so half those HP loss and thats where I would think you'd be in (MAYBE).

15-20% of 600hp (crank) is 90-120hp (1/2 for 6psi)= 45-60hp
15-20% of 650hp (crank) is 97-130hp. (1/2 for 6psi)= 49-65hp

Again thats all based off the SC design as some are more/less efficient than others. Oh and also RPM.

This is ON TOP of the loss through the drivetrain which I wouldnt believe for 2 sec is below 20% on this big @SS trucks. Your telling me hes making 515rwhp which means hes making more than 650hp at 6psi.

650hp -50hp for the blower =600hp - 20% (driveline) =120hp or 480rwhp. This could be affected by locking the converter during the pull etc. Its pretty close but this is assuming the lowest loss through the blower and a theoretical drivetrain loss percentage.

I'm not trying to $hit on this guys parade... hes make awesome numbers.

blackbetty14 · Jul 24, 2018

Also I decided to find out what the stock 5.7 truck Dyno's at.

"390 hp is at the motor not the wheels. These rams have around a 22% drivetrain loss so 305 rwhp is 390 hp at the motor"

Stock truck dynod at 306hp/331tq. Thats 22% loss through the drivetrain so I was almost on the money. If you calculate 30rwhp from the headers with the 22% your at 40hp at the crank. Add 40 to 390/395 your at 430hp crank, 22% = 335rwhp. So this guy has gained 180rwhp at 6psi.... thats about 230 crank hp without any loss through the blower (thats more than 50% of the original engine output). Sounds high to me! I would believe it if it was at 10psi...

chrisp2493 · Jul 24, 2018

I think hemis have always responded very well to boost because of how well the heads flow

I Bleed Ram Trucks

RedSRT4Me · Jul 24, 2018

chrisp2493 said:
I think hemis have always responded very well to boost because of how well the heads flow

I Bleed Ram Trucks

Yes. Eagle heads stock outflow older stock ported heads of various V8 engines.

Well the numbers are finally in:)

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