Anyone HAPPY with Borg Warner 44-44 / Auto 4WD

chrisbh17 · Dec 10, 2018

Ive lost track with what the exact issue with the Rockland Standard kit is...I *think* its if you go to 4Lo, you cant get right back to 2WD without going to another 4WD mode first. Honestly I could deal with having to "roll back" through another 4WD mode if Im in 4Lo....I dont off-road, so 4Lo basically only sees action when I want to make sure 4Lo actually works (which is, never)

Moparman16 · Dec 10, 2018

chrisbh17 said:
Ive lost track with what the exact issue with the Rockland Standard kit is...I *think* its if you go to 4Lo, you cant get right back to 2WD without going to another 4WD mode first. Honestly I could deal with having to "roll back" through another 4WD mode if Im in 4Lo....I dont off-road, so 4Lo basically only sees action when I want to make sure 4Lo actually works (which is, never)

My understanding is that whether you swap in a 44-45 or install the rockland kit the issues are the same. Basically once you have gone into 4Low and try to get back into 2wd the encoder motor doesn’t turn far enough to allow the transfer case to disengage. However since ours trucks have two points of disconnect in 2wd (transfer case and the hubs) the truck is still in 2wd when you make this selection. It just isn’t disconnected at the transfer case and the hubs like a truck from the factory with the 44-45.

chrisbh17 · Dec 10, 2018

No hubs on the 1500 AFAIK, just the axle disconnect. I imagine that does get disconnected regardless of the encoder, but with the encoder still in some unknown position we could still be feeding torque to the front driveshaft. Since the front driveshaft turns in 2WD as well its probably hard to tell if its spinning because of that or because of the bad encoder position.

Does the issue occur when trying to go directly from 4Lo back to 2WD? Or is it any combination of 4Lo back to 2WD (i.e. when in 4Lo, press 4Lock then 4Auto *then* 2WD and does it work without the issue?)

Moparman16 · Dec 10, 2018

chrisbh17 said:
No hubs on the 1500 AFAIK, just the axle disconnect. I imagine that does get disconnected regardless of the encoder, but with the encoder still in some unknown position we could still be feeding torque to the front driveshaft. Since the front driveshaft turns in 2WD as well its probably hard to tell if its spinning because of that or because of the bad encoder position.

Does the issue occur when trying to go directly from 4Lo back to 2WD? Or is it any combination of 4Lo back to 2WD (i.e. when in 4Lo, press 4Lock then 4Auto *then* 2WD and does it work without the issue?)

My mistake...your are right that the front axle is the other disconnect location.

It doesn’t matter how you try to get from 4wd Low to 2wd, the problem persists in each scenario.

6.7CumminsDrvr · Dec 10, 2018

Moparman16 said:
I just bought a used 44-45 to replace the 44-44 in my truck. I also have the AlfaOBD software. Once I get it in I will experiment with changing the transfer case type in the bcm and see what happens.

You can’t get this done fast enough sir!!!!!!!

:hidesbehindsofa:

Moparman16 · Dec 10, 2018

6.7CumminsDrvr said:
You can’t get this done fast enough sir!!!!!!!

Well I’ve got nothing to loose...my 44-44 is pooched so the new case can only be better.

6.7 CumminsDrvr: Does my description of the problems faced by swapping in the 44-45 or rockland kit match what you have gathered from reading all of the forums on this issue? Just want to make sure I am not overlooking anything

6.7CumminsDrvr · Dec 10, 2018

Moparman16 said:
Well I’ve got nothing to loose...my 44-44 is pooched so the new case can only be better.

6.7 CumminsDrvr: Does my description of the problems faced by swapping in the 44-45 or rockland kit match what you have gathered from reading all of the forums on this issue? Just want to make sure I am not overlooking anything

Yes sir. Everything works EXCEPT the tcase shifting “back” to 2wd. Simply stated, the Shift motor isn’t commanded to turn far enough.

So how soon you gonna attempt this? I know I’m not the only wanting to know if this will work!!!!

LouM · Dec 10, 2018

6.7CumminsDrvr said:
Yes sir. Everything works EXCEPT the tcase shifting “back” to 2wd. Simply stated, the Shift motor isn’t commanded to turn far enough.

So how soon you gonna attempt this? I know I’m not the only wanting to know if this will work!!!!

definitely not the only one waiting to hear

Moparman16 · Dec 10, 2018

6.7CumminsDrvr said:
Yes sir. Everything works EXCEPT the tcase shifting “back” to 2wd. Simply stated, the Shift motor isn’t commanded to turn far enough.

So how soon you gonna attempt this? I know I’m not the only wanting to know if this will work!!!!

Well technically the front axle disconnect will allow the front wheels to spin freely so in essence it is in 2wd...just not like a factory built truck. At least that’s what I think based on my discussions with George. Correct me if I’m wrong

As for the install, t-case and 44-45 switch will arrive by the end of the week. A friend of mine will swap the t-cases for me since I don’t have a garage to work in and I don’t feel like laying in the snow to do it. Should have the case in the truck sometime late this week or next week with any luck. Then the real fun begins.

Also, I reached out to ALFAOBD to see if they can provide any guidance on what needs to be changed in the trucks modules to make all of this work

6.7CumminsDrvr · Dec 10, 2018

Moparman16 said:
Well technically the front axle disconnect will allow the front wheels to spin freely so in essence it is in 2wd...just not like a factory built truck. At least that’s what I think based on my discussions with George. Correct me if I’m wrong

You’re spot on,the truck is technically in 2wd, the tcase just wont disengage the front output to keep the front driveshaft from spinning. The front shaft spinning is the “just not like a factory built truck” difference. It is totally liveable, just not ideal as I’m sure you’ll get driveline vibrations from the driveshaft spinning all the time, quite fast @ hwy speeds, and magnified if lifted ‘cause even with just my 4” lift it is no where near the stock angle.

Moparman16 · Dec 10, 2018

6.7CumminsDrvr said:
You’re spot on,the truck is technically in 2wd, the tcase just wont disengage the front output to keep the front driveshaft from spinning. The front shaft spinning is the “just not like a factory built truck” difference. It is totally liveable, just not ideal as I’m sure you’ll get driveline vibrations from the driveshaft spinning all the time, quite fast @ hwy speeds, and magnified if lifted ‘cause even with just my 4” lift it is no where near the stock angle.

Good, just wanted to double check.

chrisbh17 · Dec 10, 2018

FWIW I have video proof that the front driveshaft spins *even in 2WD*.

I think its basically "back fed" by the left axle into the differential. Since the left half of the front is always connected there would be no way its not spinning. There is no output from the transfer case (since the electromagnetic clutch is not active in 2WD) so it has to be coming from the connection to the left axle.

When you put it into 4-Auto the axle actuator is triggered and now both sides of the front axles are connected to the diff. *Technically* there is still no torque coming from the transfer case, but this is up for debate (some people say there is 0, some people say there is 10 or 15% even if the rears are not slipping).

Interesting you mention driveline vibrations...I have the classic "vibration under light acceleration at 2000 RPM", mine feels more prevalent when the truck is put into 4-Auto but is also there in 2WD. So it makes me wonder if the front driveshaft is my culprit.

6.7CumminsDrvr · Dec 10, 2018

All great points, and spot on. I guess the clarifying point should be the ability to spin the front driveshaft by hand. Since it’s an open diff, you can rotoate the shaft by hand since the passenger side axle is disconnected.

Now if the CAD is engaged or there was some kind of traction aid up front then the driveshaft wouldn’t spin freely by hand in 2wd

Oh how I wish for a manual tcase lever and hubs that require you to hop out and manually lock them

I found out first hand about a lot of this when I threw a lockrite in the front of my Tacoma

Hemi395 · Dec 10, 2018

Oh damn I can't wait to see this!!

6.7CumminsDrvr · Dec 10, 2018

@Moparman16.........no pressure or anything :favorites13:

Moparman16 · Dec 10, 2018

6.7CumminsDrvr said:
@Moparman16.........no pressure or anything

I will do my best

Moparman16 · Dec 12, 2018

I have been thinking about how to figure out what needs to be changed in AlfaOBD to make this swap work. If we were to get someone with the 44-44 and someone else with the 44-45 to compare the body configuration
settings of their trucks with AlfaOBD, we should be able to determine if anything other than “Transfer Case Type” must be modified. This could be done with the "Read system ID" function
for the BCM to get the full list of actual configuration
settings for both trucks. I think even the demo version of the software will allow this.
Compare the lists and we should have our answer.

Anyone that’s active on the AlfaOBD thread wanna tackle this?

On a side note, FedEx is set to deliver the 44-45 t-case and switch today. Going to call my buddy and see if we can’t get in in before the weekend!

chrisbh17 · Dec 12, 2018

I have a neighbor with a Tradesman (or Express?) and he does NOT have 4-Auto on his 4WD selection, so maybe I can hook up to his. Feel funny asking since I dont talk to him very much, so hopefully someone else can beat me to it, but I will suck it up if there is no one else here.

6.7CumminsDrvr · Dec 12, 2018

I don’t know anyone around me that has a truck with the 44-45

Moparman16 · Dec 12, 2018

chrisbh17 said:
I have a neighbor with a Tradesman (or Express?) and he does NOT have 4-Auto on his 4WD selection, so maybe I can hook up to his. Feel funny asking since I dont talk to him very much, so hopefully someone else can beat me to it, but I will suck it up if there is no one else here.

There must be someone on the AlfaOBD thread that has a 44-45 case that can help out. I don’t know anyone personally that has a 44-45 and plus I’m pretty new to the AlfaOBD software so I wouldn’t want to screw someone else’s vehicle up.

Anyone HAPPY with Borg Warner 44-44 / Auto 4WD

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