Engine chatter upon startup

tidefan1967 · Jul 18, 2019

DamnRam1500 said:
5w30 recommendation based on suggestions in this thread.

I’m at 47,*** miles so I have less then 3000 miles to get the manifolds fixed before the truck know out of warranty. If that is even the problem. I foresee “it’s normal” in my future.

My lease is up in November and I’ll be at almost 60k miles by then. I’d be paying over $3000 in mileage fees. That and I had originally planned on keeping the truck so I did a 2” lift, exhaust, tires, wheels, and other removable accessories.

I can easily get a cheap set of oem wheel and tires on Craigslist and remove my other accessories to trade it in but I’m not removing the lift and I’d still have to pay the fines. Plus I’ve been told my truck is only worth $20k even though my buy out is $24k so that’s $4000 in negative equity as well. So I’m stuck keeping the truck and buying an extended warranty.

The powertrain warranty is 5 years and 60K miles not 50K so you have a little more time than you thought and all of these issues fall under that.

Fitz-0518 · Jul 18, 2019

I think we are getting closer to the day when FCA/RAM will have to face the fact that they have a "part quality" problem. Post #135 and 137 capture the issue of the valve train failure in some vehicles. When you look at the pictures that have been posted by techs and members, of the roller cam parts. It is stunning to see how rough the quality is. You can picture a 12 year beating out a lifter with a rock in Bangladesh. As more failures occur in the fleet segment and more professionals come forward showing rollers seized on the lifters and scouring out the cam, the problem may be addressed. They of course will never admit that they caused they problem by only paying $1.29 for their cams.

Casper · Jul 18, 2019

scoobapadi said:
My 2013 RAM has a loud engine tapping upon startup. It last a couple minutes then goes away. It has 45k miles, always serviced per manual by dealer.
Does this seem serious?
I have extended Mopar that might cover it if the dealer agrees the problem must be fixed.

Going away (as engine heats) makes it sound like a broken exhaust manifold bolt. That would have been covered under the 5yr/100K powertrain warranty that expired in 2018.

DamnRam1500 · Jul 18, 2019

buddy guy said:
any chance you could buy it out and sell for the same or closer to your buy out price? leases just aren't a good option anymore I don't think, unless you can write some of it off through a business. i hear what you're saying about the Bighorn. i had a dealer try to convince me i'd get my best payment buying a Bighorn. he says i can get you into one for 675 a month (canadian) not a chance. i got my sxt (express basically) for under 400 a month including some stuff i wanted to give it more options. aside from power and heated seats, i have everything i need except the huge payment.

Yes, this is my fail safe plan. My sister works at a dealership and suggested the same thing if push comes to shove.

16RamHemi · Jul 18, 2019

DamnRam1500 said:
I’ve thought that through time and time again. I still don’t know what to do. I can’t lease again because I’m going to continue to go over my miles.

If I got another truck I’d really like more then just a tradesman/express and every time I’ve talked to a salesman their numbers are still way to high for a purchase or even a lease. Come on $600 a month to lease a f$&@$& big horn? Give me a break.

That’s why I figure I’m better off buying out my lease. Lease buy out is $24k but it’s inky worth $20k market value. Whether is turn it in (goes back to leasing company) or trade it in (stays at the dealership) yes there is a literal difference. I’m still out $3-4000 in negative equity towards my next purchase which will severely limit my options for what I can get.

I’m going to inspect for broken manifold bolts myself and if I don’t see any, I’ll cancel my appointment and try the redline and RP filter. Since mine does not do it often that might be the trick.

the more i think about this (i went through the same thing), you may be best off buying that for 24k. i see you are in NH so no sales tax correct? only being 4k above trade in is not a bad spot to be in. wont take long to catch up. plus payment on 24k wont be too bad. its not like your truck is on its last leg.

definitely make dealer take care of manifold bolts prior to warranty end if it comes up. other than that, once you decide to keep it, switch to redline 5w30 with a high end synthetic filter (rp 20820 if you can find one). start taking care of maintenance items. start thinking about trans service (will cost around $250 if you do it yourself). dont fall into the "lifetime fluid" group. trans and motor are the heart of the truck. do what you can to keep them healthy.

DamnRam1500 · Jul 18, 2019

tidefan1967 said:
The powertrain warranty is 5 years and 60K miles not 50K so you have a little more time than you thought and all of these issues fall under that.

Really? I swear I read 50k miles. I’ll double check. Thanks for letting me know!

DamnRam1500 · Jul 18, 2019

16RamHemi said:
the more i think about this (i went through the same thing), you may be best off buying that for 24k. i see you are in NH so no sales tax correct? only being 4k above trade in is not a bad spot to be in. wont take long to catch up. plus payment on 24k wont be too bad. its not like your truck is on its last leg.

definitely make dealer take care of manifold bolts prior to warranty end if it comes up. other than that, once you decide to keep it, switch to redline 5w30 with a high end synthetic filter (rp 20820 if you can find one). start taking care of maintenance items. start thinking about trans service (will cost around $250 if you do it yourself). dont fall into the "lifetime fluid" group. trans and motor are the heart of the truck. do what you can to keep them healthy.

I appreciate your input. That’s most likely what’s going to happen at this point. I’m just nervous because I have not owned a vehicle out of warranty for almost 5 years and my last used vehicle was a money pit. (2005 4.7L Grand Cherokee).

I agree the price is not terrible if I buy it out and the benefit of my insurance and registration costs going down will out weight any added payment costs.

If I get an extended warranty I should be in decent shape as long as I make sure to read the fine print. Or is it better to take things in to my own hands and not get an extended warranty?

WhiteStar · Jul 18, 2019

Fitz-0518 said:
I think we are getting closer to the day when FCA/RAM will have to face the fact that they have a "part quality" problem. Post #135 and 137 capture the issue of the valve train failure in some vehicles. When you look at the pictures that have been posted by techs and members, of the roller cam parts. It is stunning to see how rough the quality is. You can picture a 12 year beating out a lifter with a rock in Bangladesh. As more failures occur in the fleet segment and more professionals come forward showing rollers seized on the lifters and scouring out the cam, the problem may be addressed. They of course will never admit that they caused they problem by only paying $1.29 for their cams.

I was also informed that these lifters clattering on startup is what causes the lifters to fail. The lifter roller bearings are subject to the energy shock from the valve train parts hitting each other instead of pushing each other with zero lash. This is what breaks the roller bearings. And when they fail the lifter wipes out the cam.

It's interesting to note that both GM and Chrysler in 2004 started using these specially designed lifters and the cylinder deactivation system created by Eaton Corp.

https://www.underhoodservice.com/tech-feature-the-variables-of-valve-timing/

GM however chose to to do something about the lifters bleeding down to prevent cold start problems.
See the GM TSB I posted above.

buddy guy · Jul 18, 2019

well hell..there's an Eaton plant 50 steps away from where I work. maybe i should break in and steal a lift full of lifters! i happen to know a bunch of people who would like some

16RamHemi · Jul 18, 2019

DamnRam1500 said:
I appreciate your input. That’s most likely what’s going to happen at this point. I’m just nervous because I have not owned a vehicle out of warranty for almost 5 years and my last used vehicle was a money pit. (2005 4.7L Grand Cherokee).

I agree the price is not terrible if I buy it out and the benefit of my insurance and registration costs going down will out weight any added payment costs.

If I get an extended warranty I should be in decent shape as long as I make sure to read the fine print. Or is it better to take things in to my own hands and not get an extended warranty?

thats really your call. if you have not had any problems and kept up on maintenance you should be good. get your bolts checked by a dealer you trust. you also should post up a video of your cold start and one of hot idle in the synthetic thread. you will get some good feedback. when i got the prices for warranty i decided to take the chance. save that money for other things. you have under 50k miles. there is no reason to think your cam is going to go right off. i would get redline 5w30 into it as soon as possible, drive it 1000 to 1500 miles (let the moly and other additives do their thing) and see what happens. my truck had a small tick to it when i bought it. switching to redline made the tick go away immediately. and about 1400 miles later the motor quieted down considerably.

DamnRam1500 · Jul 18, 2019

16RamHemi said:
thats really your call. if you have not had any problems and kept up on maintenance you should be good. get your bolts checked by a dealer you trust. you also should post up a video of your cold start and one of hot idle in the synthetic thread. you will get some good feedback. when i got the prices for warranty i decided to take the chance. save that money for other things. you have under 50k miles. there is no reason to think your cam is going to go right off. i would get redline 5w30 into it as soon as possible, drive it 1000 to 1500 miles (let the moly and other additives do their thing) and see what happens. my truck had a small tick to it when i bought it. switching to redline made the tick go away immediately. and about 1400 miles later the motor quieted down considerably.

Thanks, that makes me feel better.

chrisbh17 · Jul 18, 2019

Does anyone know if the "push pedal to floor and then attempt to start engine" will prevent the engine from starting *with a push button start*?

I thought I read that helps prime the system with oil, before actually starting the truck. Havent been brave enough to try it with my push to start truck, but would like to if we know it wont start up at full throttle.

Arth · Jul 18, 2019

chrisbh17 said:
Does anyone know if the "push pedal to floor and then attempt to start engine" will prevent the engine from starting *with a push button start*?

I thought I read that helps prime the system with oil, before actually starting the truck. Havent been brave enough to try it with my push to start truck, but would like to if we know it wont start up at full throttle.

I have push button as well and it won't start the truck.

However when I did this the truck kind of locked up. It kept just turning over but wouldn't start. Foot off the pedal and me pressing the button did nothing. It cranked for about 15 seconds then stopped.

For me though I still had a loud tapping sound on start after that.

RamCares · Jul 18, 2019

Ohio5pt7 said:
Dealer has had my 18 for a week because of this issue mine is intermittent though.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

DamnRam1500 said:
I’m so conflicted as to what to do. My 2016 with 47,*** miles has sounds just like the previous 2-3 videos. Clicks loudly at cold start and goes away quickly.

It has only done it 3 times in the last month or two but being at the end of my lease and having no choice but to buy out the lease because I’m WAY over my mileage and I don’t want to undo everything I’ve done to the truck, I’m rather terrified of buying it.

I have an appointment for the dealership next weekend to check the bolts but if they can’t replicate it and say bolts are fine them I’m up **** Creek with out a paddle it seems.

Where do you guys buy this redline oil and is it now recommended to use 5w30 not 5w20?

I’ve used nothing but Mobil 1 synthetic 5w20 since the first oil change.

The only thing that has changed recently is I’ve used a Fram filter for the last 2 oil changes vs mopar.

Hello Ohio5pt7 & DamnRam1500 ,

Keep us updated on your dealer visit. If we can be of any assistance, send us a direct message. We'd be glad to help.

Lamar
RAM Social Care Specialist

DamnRam1500 · Jul 19, 2019

RamCares said:
Hello Ohio5pt7 & DamnRam1500 ,

Keep us updated on your dealer visit. If we can be of any assistance, send us a direct message. We'd be glad to help.

Lamar
RAM Social Care Specialist

If you want to help, do something about the known problem and start offering real solutions for real the very problems your loyal owners are having.

Fitz-0518 · Jul 19, 2019

^^^^It is a fair point and many have made it. I will say that RamCares is effective and they can be aggressive with a dealer who is Hollywood two stepping the customer. I have first hand experience with them and respect their effort. The issue with poor quality parts and poor quality assembly will never be solved or change until Reid puts this on top of his list and says, enough. RAM will not be another FCA crap vehicle division. The fact that FCA wanted to buy Renault, combine them with Fiat and corner the market on junk crap vehicles speaks volumes.

WhiteStar · Jul 19, 2019

I think I may of found a solution for the lifter noise on a cold start.

Before parking the truck overnight and with the truck in DRIVE disengage the MDS system by first pushing GEAR- then GEAR+ to 8 then park the truck and turn it off. Or just make sure the MDS is off before getting to your final destination and parking the truck.

chrisbh17 · Jul 19, 2019

You know that's something I never thought of.

What if the reason we get horrible chatter after only moving the truck a little distance had to do with MDS not engaging and/or disengaging at least once?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

J's_Sport · Jul 19, 2019

I will definitely give that a try. Since I can basically make it happen on demand, I will know if that makes a difference or not when it starts up in the morning.

buddy guy · Jul 19, 2019

WhiteStar said:
I think I may of found a solution for the lifter noise on a cold start.

Before parking the truck overnight and with the truck in DRIVE disengage the MDS system by first pushing GEAR- then GEAR+ to 8 then park the truck and turn it off. Or just make sure the MDS is off before getting to your final destination and parking the truck.

interesting idea. i constantly turn off my mds now so its off when i park it. that would be awesome if it helps with this issue! (i don't have it..yet.lol)

Engine chatter upon startup

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