Portal Axles vs standard lift

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knightjp

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It seems that all the best 4x4s have portal axles for the best clearances - Hummer H1, Unimog, etc..

I saw a video on the Hummer H1 and the portal axles look like the business. However I would like to know if anyone has experience with them on a 4th Gen Ram.

I'm not an expert, so this thread is for me ask questions and learn.

So here are my questions:

What are the benefits and cons of portal axles over standard lifts?

What do portal axles do for fuel consumption?
 

Moparfanatic21

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Benefits better chance. Cons expensive and not really needed.

Fuel consumption goes down a good bit in my opinion :)
 
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knightjp

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I’ve only researched these in the side by side world but the benefits to this type of lift is you can get higher ground clearance while keeping your driveline angles as originally designed, also, sometimes they offer some different gearing that helps with larger tires, rock crawling etc. the major downside is it’s expensive AF. But I guess when you want the best you have to pay up. If you look up Polaris Rzr with portal gear lift, you’ll see some swamp buggy’s that are running like a 6-10” suspension lift on top of a 4-8” portal gear lift as well with 35”+ ag tires to just walk over the mud bogs.

For reference;
This one is a 6” lift via portal gear, notice the driveline angles. Price for these are 3,999.95$
550B08A4-7428-44E4-9EAF-E915CC3E5D6A.jpeg
This one is a 10” lift via suspension lift brackets, Notice the driveline angles. Price for this is 1,999.95$
84A09AA4-8A77-48A7-9CC2-6B9E68A7069D.jpeg
 
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6.7CumminsDrvr

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Most of the ones available are not really meant for a daily driven vehicle. They are expensive and put ALOT of stress on the steering and suspension due to the leverage they create.

Biggest bonus aside for the massive amount of ground clearance is:
1) gear reduction at the hub, most likely 2.1. This means you probably don’t have to regear or In some cases go to a higher (numerically lower) gear set.
2)strength.......since there is a reduction at the hub, the “upstream” drivetrain has less of a workload if you will.

I had another thought but lost it.......

Take a look at Artek Industries
 

Moparfanatic21

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Not sure I get you there... Do you mean better clearance?


Does that mean portal axles are better for fuel economy or worse?

Looking online, the only portals axles I'm able to find are German ones for the Jeep Wrangler.
Sorry typo yes better ground clearance. They are heavier so you don't get as much mpg. Really not needed honestly.
 

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A full-size truck seems like the wrong candidate for portal axles. What's your goal?

If it's just to lift the truck and not to squeeze every bit of crawling capability out of it, it seems like an expensive solution.
 
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knightjp

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A full-size truck seems like the wrong candidate for portal axles. What's your goal?

If it's just to lift the truck and not to squeeze every bit of crawling capability out of it, it seems like an expensive solution.
You do have a point with the goals. I want to get into off-roading for the weekend and take my truck into the deserts as well as touring.

Although it should be mentioned that my vehicle will spend most of its life on the road during the week, so portal axles would seem like a completely unnecessary idea.
However, over here in Dubai, I keep seeing the Mercedes G Wagons with large wheels and portal axles. These AMG models have amazing ground clearance, but large alloys with low profile wheels. Its more about the road presence I suppose with those vehicles so I guess it would give my truck the same.

I saw a video about the development of the Hummer and thought if such a serious vehicle needs portal axles for off roading, then my truck should benefit as well.

It is a known fact that if I were to change my shocks and springs to get a decent maybe a 2 -3 inch lift over stock, I will loose the payload capacity because the off-road shocks and springs will be softer better articulation.

I've heard that with just the portals, I retain the stock payload and get the ground clearance. Have I been mis-informed?

Is there a way of giving my truck a standard lift of 2 inches without sacrificing its stock payload?

And not doing the spacers.. The spacers are great, but that's not for me.
 

Moparfanatic21

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You do have a point with the goals. I want to get into off-roading for the weekend and take my truck into the deserts as well as touring.

Although it should be mentioned that my vehicle will spend most of its life on the road during the week, so portal axles would seem like a completely unnecessary idea.
However, over here in Dubai, I keep seeing the Mercedes G Wagons with large wheels and portal axles. These AMG models have amazing ground clearance, but large alloys with low profile wheels. Its more about the road presence I suppose with those vehicles so I guess it would give my truck the same.

I saw a video about the development of the Hummer and thought if such a serious vehicle needs portal axles for off roading, then my truck should benefit as well.

It is a known fact that if I were to change my shocks and springs to get a decent maybe a 2 -3 inch lift over stock, I will loose the payload capacity because the off-road shocks and springs will be softer better articulation.

I've heard that with just the portals, I retain the stock payload and get the ground clearance. Have I been mis-informed?

Is there a way of giving my truck a standard lift of 2 inches without sacrificing its stock payload?

And not doing the spacers.. The spacers are great, but that's not for me.
Portal axles will actually make you lose payload as now your truck is heavier. Hummers are junk I ride in them many times overseas, hunk of junk (that's why they are being replaced by Oshkosh). Secondly too sustain your payload get airbags with cradles. I had a 2005 Ram 2500 with portal axles, and honestly it did nothing.
 
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knightjp

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Secondly too sustain your payload get airbags with cradles.

Is there a way to get the same payload with just the shock and spring upgrades?

I had a 2005 Ram 2500 with portal axles, and honestly it did nothing.
So what you're saying is that portal axles did nothing to help with off-roading.. Am I right?
 

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Portal axles give you gear reduction and ground clearance.

When you lift a truck with solid axles (like a RAM 2500) you raise the body and chassis and some of the drive train (i.e. the transmission and transfer case), but you don't do anything to raise the lowest point on your vehicle - the differential housing in the axle (a.k.a. the pumpkin). You still drag the differential over rocks, your axle tubes get hung up, etc.

When you lift a truck with independent front suspension (like a RAM 1500) or fully independent suspension (like a Hummer H1) you actually do raise the differential of the independent axle(s), but then you create problems with your drive line angles - as photoed above with the RZR's. Trucks are not very tolerant to out of OEM spec drive line angles and to compensate for this many independent axle lift kits will actually use drop brackets to lower the differential section down to maintain drive line angle; so now you are back to not gaining any meaningful ground clearance for the lowest part of the vehicle - the differential.

Here is a great shot of an IFS differential drop bracket - see the metal plate with "RCX" cut out? That's part of the bracketry that lowers the front differential to try and maintain the factory drive line angles:

maxresdefault.jpg

Now - portal axles replace your factory axle hubs with a "portal box" which has gears inside of it. The top one is where your factory axle goes and the lower gear is where your hub goes (where your tire bolts on) - see the photo below.

3835947.jpg

So by putting this "lift" on the outside of the axles you actually lift the entire axle, differential and all, and you maintain the factory drive line angles. Portal boxes also allow you to have different reduction ratios so you can get SUPER deep crawl ratios (like a Unimog) and, as was said earlier in the thread, actually reduce stress on upstream drive line component (e.g. axles, transfer case, etc.).

So - do you need portal axles? Based on how you described your use case, absolutely not. You're looking at 10's of thousands for a kit (if they even exist for RAM) or you're going DIY. You need to deal with ABS, traction control, all the other computer crap that the RAM has on it. It's not worth it IMO. You'd be better off buying a more capable off road rig that has portals from the factory, or something like a Jeep that has a massive aftermarket available (which have bolt on portal options).
 

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Is there a way to get the same payload with just the shock and spring upgrades?


So what you're saying is that portal axles did nothing to help with off-roading.. Am I right?
Yes you can do springs but then you lose off road performance.
They didn't help me and I only ever saw 1 dedicated off reader with them. They improve ground clearance but at the cost it's not worth it
 

Moparfanatic21

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Portal axles give you gear reduction and ground clearance.

When you lift a truck with solid axles (like a RAM 2500) you raise the body and chassis and some of the drive train (i.e. the transmission and transfer case), but you don't do anything to raise the lowest point on your vehicle - the differential housing in the axle (a.k.a. the pumpkin). You still drag the differential over rocks, your axle tubes get hung up, etc.

When you lift a truck with independent front suspension (like a RAM 1500) or fully independent suspension (like a Hummer H1) you actually do raise the differential of the independent axle(s), but then you create problems with your drive line angles - as photoed above with the RZR's. Trucks are not very tolerant to out of OEM spec drive line angles and to compensate for this many independent axle lift kits will actually use drop brackets to lower the differential section down to maintain drive line angle; so now you are back to not gaining any meaningful ground clearance for the lowest part of the vehicle - the differential.

Here is a great shot of an IFS differential drop bracket - see the metal plate with "RCX" cut out? That's part of the bracketry that lowers the front differential to try and maintain the factory drive line angles:

maxresdefault.jpg

Now - portal axles replace your factory axle hubs with a "portal box" which has gears inside of it. The top one is where your factory axle goes and the lower gear is where your hub goes (where your tire bolts on) - see the photo below.

3835947.jpg

So by putting this "lift" on the outside of the axles you actually lift the entire axle, differential and all, and you maintain the factory drive line angles. Portal boxes also allow you to have different reduction ratios so you can get SUPER deep crawl ratios (like a Unimog) and, as was said earlier in the thread, actually reduce stress on upstream drive line component (e.g. axles, transfer case, etc.).

So - do you need portal axles? Based on how you described your use case, absolutely not. You're looking at 10's of thousands for a kit (if they even exist for RAM) or you're going DIY. You need to deal with ABS, traction control, all the other computer crap that the RAM has on it. It's not worth it IMO. You'd be better off buying a more capable off road rig that has portals from the factory, or something like a Jeep that has a massive aftermarket available (which have bolt on portal options).
Portal axles are only good for a dedicated off roader. In all my years of off roading (even making new trails) I never needed portal axles. Heck even the Jeep aftermarket only has 1 company that makes them and they get very little sells
 
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knightjp

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Looking at one of my fav off road programmes, I see a guy with a pretty much stock truck doing some pretty intense rock stuff.

Over here in Dubai, the biggest type of obstacles in terms of terrain we have here are soft sand dunes.
Considering my use case for a daily driver on tarmac, it is unlikely that I will ever need portals; considering the cons. Don't even know if there is a company that makes them for the RAM. I know of a German one that makes them for the Wrangler.

If I was building a dedicated off-road expedition rig, I guess maybe that would be on the list.
 
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ram1500rsm

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Looking at one of my fav off road programmes, I see a guy with a pretty much stock truck doing some pretty intense rock stuff.

Over here in Dubai, the biggest type of obstacles in terms of terrain we have here are soft sand dunes.
Considering my use case for a daily driver on tarmac, it is unlikely that I will ever need portals; considering the cons. Don't even know if there is a company that makes them for the RAM. I know of a German one that makes them for the Wrangler.

If I was building a dedicated off-road expedition rig, I guess maybe that would be on the list.

I have Graham and Shaun in my youtube favorites, those dudes can drive offroad and their rigs are in excellent shape for that too :)
You don't need portals to do sand dunes. Just enough tire with tall sidewalls to lift your belly off the ground at 12-15psi or so and a small lift, Cool thing in the dunes you don't have rocks that can damage the plastic fuel tank we have. The biggest gripe i have with my RAM 1500 is the lack of aftermarket armor and aftermaket support as a whole as an offroad enthusiat myself.
The Mopar skids are a joke thought at least you can say you're minimally protected. I would be doing a lot more aggresive trails if we had heavy duty aftermarket skids that will protect all the belly and gas tank so for me i'm enjoying fast offroad dirt, moderate mountain trails with some rocks, desert wash trails and sand dunes.
I have steel bumpers so hitting rocks with them is not a problem just spray paint the scratches when needed and that's it. This trucks are too big for rock crawling anyways and the longer the wheelbase the worst in that regards. I came from a Jeep Wrangler Sport Unlnimited modded for moderate rock crawling with 4.56's, an Eaton rear locker and front Detroit Trutrac. You have no idea how much i'm missing this type of action.

36820635312_4b05e5777e_k.jpgUntitled by RAM RSM, on Flickr

34258026210_043f549786_k.jpg20170513_120625 by RAM RSM, on Flickr

33798327684_475314af2d_k.jpg20170513_121549 by RAM RSM, on Flickr

If i didn't have the fun my King suspension can provide in the dirt i'll have dumped this truck back in the dealer long time ago, that and i can have the cargo/interior space i need to carry my whole family of 5 plus a little doggy in comfort when we go out to the outdoors.

I may have another Jeep Wrangler in the future, i bought a used 01 WJ as i thought i wanted that to be my offroad project but i'm not feeling the platform at all and i haven't been inclined to mod like i should, i like JKU's, and now JLU's and JT's though the last is too damn long.
41615434605_3caff9423f_k.jpg2018-06-02_09-42-58 by RAM RSM, on Flickr

Have fun.
 
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Moparfanatic21

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I have Graham and Shaun in my youtube favorites, those dudes can drive offroad and their rigs are in excellent shape for that too :)
You don't need portals to do sand dunes. Just enough tire with tall sidewalls to lift your belly off the ground at 12-15psi or so and a small lift, Cool thing in the dunes you don't have rocks that can damage the plastic fuel tank we have. The biggest gripe i have with my RAM 1500 is the lack of aftermarket armor and aftermaket support as a whole as an offroad enthusiat myself.
The Mopar skids are a joke thought at least you can say you're minimally protected. I would be doing a lot more aggresive trails if we had heavy duty aftermarket skids that will protect all the belly and gas tank so for me i'm enjoying fast offroad dirt, moderate mountain trails with some rocks, desert wash trails and sand dunes.
I have steel bumpers so hitting rocks with them is not a problem just spray paint the scratches when needed and that's it. This trucks are too big for rock crawling anyways and the longer the wheelbase the worst in that regards. I came from a Jeep Wrangler Sport Unlnimited modded for moderate rock crawling with 4.56's, an Eaton rear locker and front Detroit Trutrac. You have no idea how much i'm missing this type of action.

36820635312_4b05e5777e_k.jpgUntitled by RAM RSM, on Flickr

34258026210_043f549786_k.jpg20170513_120625 by RAM RSM, on Flickr

33798327684_475314af2d_k.jpg20170513_121549 by RAM RSM, on Flickr

If i didn't have the fun my King suspension can provide in the dirt i'll have dumped this truck back in the dealer long time ago, that and i can have the cargo/interior space i need to carry my whole family of 5 plus a little doggy in comfort when we go out to the outdoors.

I may have another Jeep Wrangler in the future, i bought a used 01 WJ as i thought i wanted that to be my offroad project but i'm not feeling the platform at all and i haven't been inclined to mod like i should, i like JKU's, and now JLU's and JT's though the last is too damn long.
41615434605_3caff9423f_k.jpg2018-06-02_09-42-58 by RAM RSM, on Flickr

Have fun.
I rock crawl with my Ram and my company designed and built a full underbelly skid line metal cloak has for the JL
 

ram1500rsm

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I rock crawl with my Ram and my company designed and built a full underbelly skid line metal cloak has for the JL
Have you thought of designing a line of skids for the 1500 ? Could be something simple with better built crossmembers that sit higher than the Mopar crap.
 

ram1500rsm

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Are you saying that the stock protection on the RAM Rebel isn't good enough?

4th Gen 1500, and i think including the 4th gen Rebel have a fairly basic set of skids from Mopar only.
Front axel skid that covers the front diff and depending on your crossmember there is a 2nd skid that will protect the power steering. I have an Express and my crossmember doesnt have the holes in the rear of it to get that power steering skid right besides the front diff. I thought to simply drill the crossmember and get a couple of bolts and nuts on that side, but rather than using 2 skids in there i'm thinking to fabricate something on my own and put just one.

Same for the trans, there is nothing that covers the trans at all, Mopar or not.

Transfer case skid is from Mopar only, and that includes a crossmember than hangs low for offroading. sure it works but the crossmember could be drilled to be mounted higher, aftermarket could do better with all these skids, including more sturdy crossmembers as well with better clearance.

No gas tank skid from Mopar or anybody. The gas tank is made of hard composite. it's well made considering is plastic and i'm sure it can whishtand some minor hits, just how many it's something i don't want to find out hehehe.

5th gen 1500's have a skid from Mopar that protects the gas tank (offroad package). Don't know if they have a trans skid, and don't know how the transfer case or front axel skids look like, but i figure somebody at FCA finally thought some people with 1500's like to do expedition/overlanding etc with their rigs so they finally included an e-locker and gas tank skid as part of the offroad package. We didn't get that lucky with the 4th gen.
 
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