Ball Mount Height for Enclosed Trailer

I'm hoping some people with experience towing can weigh in here...

I'll be towing a 6x12 or 7x14 dual axle enclosed trailer with my '09 Ram 2500. It's all stock; wheels, tires, suspension, etc. Hitch receiver height is about 22". I understand that "standard" tongue height on a lot of these trailers is 17". So, following the math available all over the internet that gives me a 5" drop for my ball mount. Here are my questions:

1) Do I need to account for the back end dropping under load?

Seems like the internet math just leaves this part out. I can't help but think that 1000 lbs of tongue weight (15% of a 7,000 lb trailer) would drop the rear end a bit. Also, if weight allows I'll probably have another 300-400 pounds in the bed.

2) Anybody towing a 6x12 or 7x14 (seems like they mostly come with 15" tires) and if so what are you using? Does the math add up? Any real world advice?

Thanks so much!

At 7K lbs your going to want a WDH while towing that trailer, contrary to popular belief 2500/3500 trucks need to use them. A lot of WDH have adjustable receiver bars. 15% is a bit on the heavy side for tongue weight, you may have to move the load more over the axles.
You'll want start with the trailer slightly nose high so as load is added it will level off.

Thank you @crash68. I was wondering about the WDH, I did hear that anything over 5K needs one. To be honest I don't yet know exactly how the weights are going to work out, we'll be packing the trailer with our apartment for moving. Just went off some kinda rough figures I found online for weights and some amount of intuition as well.

But I know the trailer maxes out at 7K and 10-15% tongue weight is "recommended." With that in mind I just wanted to make sure I'd be alright for the high end of the spectrum and then I know I'll be okay if I'm lighter. I think I'll be lighter in the end. I would love to have the tongue weight lower, will probably shoot for the middle (12%), unless there is a reason to go lighter?

In the end we'll go to the scales to make sure everything is where we want it. Going to be a long trip, over 3K miles, so definitely trying to get things set up correctly!

Thanks for your thoughts!

Weight can sneak up on you fast especially when loading up household of stuff. That is an excellent idea to weight the truck/trailer to see where your at. Get a baseline of just the truck preferably loaded with everything that you'll be hauling in it.

Just another thought I had...the WDH will add about 100 pounds to the hitch area, but will also take some tongue weight away (right?), so will I just break even or can I expect to actually lower the tongue weight with the WDH?

Also, is the goal of the WDH to reduce tongue weight or to help level the tow vehicle? Or both? I've done some reading on them but not sure if one aspect is more important than the other.

orin said:

Also, is the goal of the WDH to reduce tongue weight or to help level the tow vehicle? Or both? I've done some reading on them but not sure if one aspect is more important than the other.

Click to expand...

A WDH main objective is to distribute some of the tongue weight from the rear wheels to the front wheels. A trailer acts on the trailer ball like a giant teeter-totter using the rear wheels/axle as the fulcrum. Without a WDH the weight on the front goes down reducing the braking and turning ability. The ideal way to set up a WDH is using scales and you want at minimum to replace all the front axle weight,
I've posted this video several times on this forum, even though it's showing the difference between air bags and a WDH it shows the unseen side effects of you think that when it's level it's good.
The test truck/trailer set up is close to what your anticipating, 1K lbs tongue and they use a 3/4 ton truck.

That is an awesome video!!! They did an excellent job breaking down all the factors and clearly showing the results with the actual numbers. Best towing video I've seen on youtube and I watched quite a few!!

I had always heard that airbags were not the solution to towing heavy loads, that's why I went with 3/4 ton instead of a 1/2 ton with airbags/extra springs. I can clearly see the benefits of the WDH now, not only to get more weight on the front axle, but also more weight back onto the trailer axles.

Thank you so much for sharing.

orin said:

I'm hoping some people with experience towing can weigh in here...

I'll be towing a 6x12 or 7x14 dual axle enclosed trailer with my '09 Ram 2500. It's all stock; wheels, tires, suspension, etc. Hitch receiver height is about 22". I understand that "standard" tongue height on a lot of these trailers is 17". So, following the math available all over the internet that gives me a 5" drop for my ball mount. Here are my questions:

1) Do I need to account for the back end dropping under load?

Seems like the internet math just leaves this part out. I can't help but think that 1000 lbs of tongue weight (15% of a 7,000 lb trailer) would drop the rear end a bit. Also, if weight allows I'll probably have another 300-400 pounds in the bed.

2) Anybody towing a 6x12 or 7x14 (seems like they mostly come with 15" tires) and if so what are you using? Does the math add up? Any real world advice?

Thanks so much!

Click to expand...

Well, your math seems right on. Now my comments below, might get a few snarky comments. IMHO, you're over thinking this - which is good and not so good. I'll not get into the math. That just hurts my head...

I'm not in anyway trying to insult you below...

The most important thing about towing is how well can you stop. All else be damned, if you can control the rig. This is why insurance and tow limits exist. Your truck will pull more weight than rated. Yet, in a crash, your insurance won't pay out cause you exceeded time and space.

Have you seen the strong man contests - pulling with their legs. What's the one thing they can't do? Stop the tow

Always remember this #1 rule - Stopping

If you've every driven in the mountains... You've seen the Semi Runaway Ramps. If they get going to fast, the use that run off to stop.

Next important rule - am I hurting my truck? If you tow too heavy of a load, yes you're putting your truck at risk. Auto manf, lowered the actual tow and tongue weights. Meaning you can tow greater loads - but can you stop.

Tongue weight affects, the trucks front tires ability to do their job. It affects your headlights direction. Your headlights are pointed up to far, you won't be able to see and your ******* off everyone in front. Tongue weight, affects how much ass is pressing down on you truck tail. If you over load the tongue, you impact how well you control the rig. You can't stop as you should...

There are ways to mitigate the ass load - tongue weight. First off, how you load your trailer. Centering the load on the two trailer axles. If anything, maybe 10% aft heavy. This will reduce the tongue weight on your truck. Giving you better control...#1 rule. This too impacts your trailer in it's carrying ability. Don't overload the trailer's capabilities.

Weight stabilizers are what you need if you're really worried. Look them up, Reece - Curt. IMHO these are their weight in gold. In fact, with the load weights, I'd get these even if I wasn't worried.

They will lift the tongue weight - leveling - distributing the load to the trailer (frame) not just your truck. However, you MUST set these up correctly!

Weight stabilizers, give your front wheels control, puts you truck's nose to a normal height. These won't really let you tow heavier loads. They give you back control of the rig - truck and trailer. They assist in keeping the trailer from swinging it's ass all over. Which causes you to over correct, then your chasing your tail. If your truck is ass heavy, your steering and braking are now compromised.

Next, that'll help are truck air bags - you see these on 18 wheelers - the large black rubber bags.

These too are worth the money. They help with the aft load and cushion the ride. You can control these by the air pressure. They too give your truck control relieving the tongue weight.

For many of us, I'll push my towing limits. I've got tons of experience and I know myself and my truck. Even my older 80's and 90's model trucks. Don't go out and start towing crazy towing stuff. Many RVs being towed, it's not easy to distribute the load/carrying weight. Such as a car hauler, where your can balance where the car is in the trailer. That's why we use stabilizers.

You're dead on with your concern and the math. If your not over loading it, take your time you'll be fine. I didn't even cover the use of trailer brakes... Which are a must for heavy loads. These too must be setup currently. I can write that up if asked.

For those new to towing - take your time, your not getting anywhere fast. Put a note on your dash - BRAKE or TOW, something to remind you to stop much - MUCH sooner.

Ensure your truck's front brakes are in good condition. They'll will take much abuse. Yet, setting trailer brakes correctly, will help your truck.

I hope this helps - I prob didn't answer as you wanted. Always, check your tow hook up, chains, level, stable, all tires at good pressure. For control fill (air) tires to the high rated side. If your chasing the trailer sway, especially when it's empty - lower the trailer tire pressure. This will make the trailer squishy - reducing the tail steering your rig.

Feel free to ask, I'll help the best I can. Again, no judgement or intent on insulting you.

Please, be a courtesy tow driver - Slower Traffic Keep Right.

Also try to keep about 60% of your weight at, and forward of, the centerline between your tandem axles.

You don't want the tail to be waggin' the dog.

There has probably been quite a few people who have opted to go with a 3/4 ton vs a 1/2 ton for the similar reasons you stated without really needing a 3/4 to do the job. Unless is way overloaded, a lot of white knuckle towing could be resolved by just getting the weight distributed correctly.
Airbags are nice if they are treated as firmer springs on demand and used in conjunction with a WDH.

KeepRight said:

I'm not in anyway trying to insult you below...

............

Always remember this #1 rule - Stopping

Click to expand...

@KeepRight No offense taken!! This is exactly what I'm looking for as I fairly new to towing, especially heavier loads. Your number one rule seems spot on to me! The rest of the post was packed with good advice, I'll definitely be reading through it a few more times.

I'm already planning on the WDH for sure, can't argue with getting more weight back on the front axle and back on the trailer axles, that's a no brainer.

I do have a brake controller in the truck and I know I need to set it up, but I have no experience so far. Would be happy to hear any advice you've got to give, otherwise was just planning on doing the typical internet searches to try and work it out.

Thanks again for your thoughts.

MADDOG said:

Also try to keep about 60% of your weight at, and forward of, the centerline between your tandem axles.

You don't want the tail to be waggin' the dog.

Click to expand...

This is basically keeping the tongue weight from being too low, right?

crash68 said:

...go with a 3/4 ton vs a 1/2 ton for the similar reasons you stated without really needing a 3/4 to do the job.

Click to expand...

I went back and forth on this, 1/2 ton vs 3/4 ton, when thinking about buying the truck and making this tow with it. In the end, given my experience level, I decided I'd rather have a little too much truck than just enough. All the same I knew that I'd have to pay close attention to setting it up right, hence asking for help here!

Thanks again to everyone for their input.

orin said:

This is basically keeping the tongue weight from being too low, right?

Click to expand...

Exactly. Too much weight behind the axle will cause significant sway.

orin, If you purchased the brake controller and have the instructions on it. You can set up the controller by following the instructions, they are generally pretty clear and your situation will be well covered. If the controller came with the truck, get the name of the controller and model number and look up the manufacture on the web get the instructions from them.

Mike

MADDOG said:

Exactly. Too much weight behind the axle will cause significant sway.

Click to expand...

That is the best video!

I'll post brake control later today.

This video and the one I posted above should be mandatory for everyone should watch before hooking a trailer up behind a vehicle.

KeepRight said:

That is the best video!

I'll post brake control later today.

Click to expand...

I'm sorry for taking a bit to post.

Ok, using the BRAKE CONTROLLER.

There are 3 main parts to this:

1. How much do the trailer brakes engage and when you push the truck brake pedal.

2. At what point when pushing the truck's brake pedal does the trailer engage.

3. Emergency disconnect. (Eeekkss)

The first two will need to be adjusted through your controller. Each controller is a bit different... Yet they do the same things.

You're trying to avoid a runaway or jackknifed trailer. Also, you don't want to totally abuse your truck. We're gonna let the trailer do it's fair share of work; stopping.

You don't want your trailer to lock up it's tires when stopping. (It can and will.) When stopping you'll want decent brake stoppage from the trailer. Just like your truck, the more (truck) brake pressure the more the trailer engages.

How far do you push the truck brake pedal before the trailer's brakes engage? You don't want an immediate trailer brake. At the same time, you don't want your truck doing all the work.

My comfort settings - I like the trailer to engage at about1/4 truck pedal engagement. Too include I like a heavier trailer, where it's stopping itself more. I don't want to much abuse on the truck. At times, my trailers can slow my truck just a bit before the truck's brakes start to grab.

All in all, it's a constant ever changing balance. I'll make adjustments while towing. If it's raining, I'll let my truck do more work... This helps avoid runaway trailer.

Your brake control should have a manual (hand) trailer brake engagement - button, switch, knob. This is where you can engage the trailer only. Even more if the trailer just gets away from you... If it starts to sway back and forth. You can grab that button. The harder you push the button, the more trailer brakes engage.

The emergency cable is connected to your hitch. If the truck and trailer ever come disconnected - that cable is pulled engaging the trailer's brakes.
(Look honey, is that our trailer passing us? Naw dear, that isn't right - but it looks just like our trailer.)

Lastly, for new to towing, make that note for your dash. STOP or BRAKE whatever will remind you to slow down sooner.

Put all tires at max pressure... Maybe just 5 psi above.

If the trailer wants to control you - meaning you're chasing the path and over steering. Look further down the road and reduce looking in the mirror as much. Too can let the trailer tire pressure down... Maybe 1/2, making it squishy... Play around with this.

Later if you tow allot, look into 'D' rated truck tires. Most of these are built for towing and take while k about 80psi... Stiff, better load control, and better driving (steering) control.

Towing can be tons of fun, especially with an RV.

We can discuss hills, braking, and fuel savings later.

Be nice to all the other drivers, Slower Traffic Keep Right.

KeepRight said:

I'm sorry for taking a bit to post.

Click to expand...

No problem KeepRight, thank you for sharing your experiences and advice, very much appreciated. I'm sure this will all help make my towing experience more enjoyable and less stressful.