What's the science?

Ohio5pt7 · Jul 11, 2020

I'm sure some of you seen my thread of my new lift and how crappy my cv angles are. My question is is there a specified "limit" to the angle? Is it set in stone or is it well I wouldnt do it? Do the cv axles rotate if 4x4 isnt engaged? If not what is the danger of a extreme angle on a truck that's never engaged 4x4? FYI THIS ISNT TO START A ******* MATCH SIMPLY TO HAVE THE FACTS BEHIND WHY WE DO WHAT WE DO. Not looking for opinions only facts I know bad angles are a no no already but why?

Quyonmob · Jul 11, 2020

CV shafts are always rolling in 2wd. They are under no load, but the tire keeps them rolling.

There’s no hard limit to angle (until they bind), the steeper the angle, the more likely the failure, the shorter the service life. That said, they fail under load, not In 2wd.

furthermore, if the CVs are under extreme angle, so is every other link in the front end Suspension and steering (balljoint angles, tie rods, etc). Those will all have accelerated wear if operating at their maximum range.

Ohio5pt7 · Jul 11, 2020

This is my worry the angle is complete crap. But the irresponsible part of me doesnt want to correct it if there isnt a huge risk in 2wd. Being hard headed sucks lol. Its not that I'm a dummy I know better just choose to go against the grain sometimes.

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Quyonmob · Jul 11, 2020

So from what I see in the pic;
-CV angle is awful, but that isn’t a huge deal if you are going to limit 4wd use to almost never.

-sway bar end link is not going to be too happy at its lower mount

-tie rods are pretty steep, especially at the rack end, which could hurt the rack

-cant see upper control arm or upper balljoint.

Did it fully align to within a tolerable spec?

Ohio5pt7 · Jul 11, 2020

Quyonmob said:
So from what I see in the pic;
-CV angle is awful, but that isn’t a huge deal if you are going to limit 4wd use to almost never.

-sway bar end link is not going to be too happy at its lower mount

-tie rods are pretty steep, especially at the rack end, which could hurt the rack

-cant see upper control arm or upper balljoint.

Did it fully align to within a tolerable spec?

Haven't got it aligned yet got home from the shop that installed it and did the look over and found they left the preload spacer in with the maxed bils. Was going to get it aligned yesterday but canceled till I figure this mess out lol. It's not my dd anymore and like said never been in 4wd but there is always the chance while camping.

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Travelin Ram · Jul 11, 2020

Of course there’s a limit to the maximum articulation angle on a CV. Anyone who’s ever taken one apart knows that. It can’t flop over to 90 degrees or more like a U-joint will.

And they turn all the time.

The angle it flexes to is the sum of the drop or rise, plus any left / right motion from steering. CV has to handle both simultaneously.

At full droop and full lock is where the maximum angle on the CV will happen. Easy enough to test by jacking it up and turning to full lock while spinning the tire. If it’s over articulated you can feel it binding.

Ohio5pt7 · Jul 11, 2020

Also the preload spacer ls 1.5 inches how much lift is that actually providing only 1.5 or is it amplified like normal spacers?

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Quyonmob · Jul 11, 2020

That 1.5” spacer should only be providing 1.5” of lift. I would remove it, get it aligned and be happy and worry free.

Ohio5pt7 · Jul 11, 2020

Travelin Ram said:
Of course there’s a limit to the maximum articulation angle on a CV. Anyone who’s ever taken one apart knows that. It can’t flop over to 90 degrees or more like a U-joint will.

And they turn all the time.

The angle it flexes to is the sum of the drop or rise, plus any left / right motion from steering. CV has to handle both simultaneously.

At full droop and full lock is where the maximum angle on the CV will happen. Easy enough to test by jacking it up and turning to full lock while spinning the tire. If it’s over articulated you can feel it binding.

So you're saying if I jack it up full drop full lock and it doesnt bind it's ok?

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Ohio5pt7 · Jul 11, 2020

Quyonmob said:
That 1.5” spacer should only be providing 1.5” of lift. I would remove it, get it aligned and be happy and worry free.

Kinda what I'm thinking but damn it looks good the way it is lol

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Freed127 · Jul 11, 2020

Just saying, but ive saw guys crack there diff housing at full droop because of angles like that. Cv pulls down on it and bam, your ******.

Elevated 2013 · Jul 11, 2020

Based on some quick research, 30 degrees should really be your max but some super heavy duty cv joints can handle up to 50 degrees. My honest opinion would be to stick to the 30 degree max though based on multiple websites. With your truck sitting still like that, that would be your baseline and any pothole or turn or being off kilter even more is going to make your angles even worse. Also, being in 4 wheel drive will add to the stress and strain on them but they will still wear in 2 wheel drive. You can drop your front diff and that can change the angle or you will have to find a way to lose some of your height to lessen the angle.

Elevated 2013 · Jul 11, 2020

Another thought if you want to keep the height, take the spacers out and do a body lift. I don’t really like body lifts but it’s an option if that height is what you really want.

Travelin Ram · Jul 11, 2020

Ohio5pt7 said:
So you're saying if I jack it up full drop full lock and it doesnt bind it's ok?

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If it doesn’t bind, then it’s not going to break on you the first time you hit a pothole going around a corner. I wouldn’t go so far as to say it’s OK to run it that way long term.

Over time, the joint and the boot wear faster at extreme angles.
Under load, joints at extreme articulation tolerate less torque than when straight. Lift + big tires + turning the steering wheel in 4wd is the recipe for breaking a CV. Someday when you really need 4x4 it’ll break.

Personally I wouldn’t leave it as it is in the photos. But I see trucks like that all the time.

Sandevino · Jul 11, 2020

Another option is to drop the front diff with relocation brackets for taller lifts.

Ohio5pt7 · Jul 11, 2020

Freed127 said:
Just saying, but ive saw guys crack there diff housing at full droop because of angles like that. Cv pulls down on it and bam, your ******.

View attachment 214934

Holy $#!+ batman lol

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Tim Garceau · Jul 11, 2020

This is a classic case of leading a horse to water but not being able to force it to drink...

Jack it up to just before the tires leave level pavement and take full lock photos both sides. You’re really testing the 5100s extension as they aren’t designed to geometry of the additional 1.5” spaced.

For reference, I used to run a custom machined billet 1.125” spacer that equated to a 1.5” actual fender lift. You’re probably adding ~2” to your 2.8” and the first failure mode will be that upper control arm joint.

When that separates you’re going to have 14” wheel into the inner fender and the truck will be totaled, depending on the speed you are putting others in real danger as well so at least I tried and don’t have family near you.

Ohio5pt7 · Jul 11, 2020

Anyone know if there is a bigger diff drop than the one provided for the 6" superlift? Maybe something custom fab?

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Freed127 · Jul 11, 2020

Ohio5pt7 said:
Holy $#!+ batman lol

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Ya im not trying to be a negative nancy on this one. Chances are it will be alright for abit. Maybe a week, maybe a year, who knows. But somewhere at some point something is going to fail with those angles, and most likely at the exact moment you also need 4x4

rwhjr · Jul 11, 2020

You gotta bring that thing down. Get the pre-load spacer out ASAP with 2.8 Bils.

If you like the look so much then go get a body lift and it’ll get the height you want while keeping the angle of everything in your front end in a safe range.

That’s my only advice before you start breaking expensive stuff.

What's the science?

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