What's the science?

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ram1500rsm

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Not only your cv angles look already maxed out, i bet those 5100's are also maxed out on droop so you have a suspension that won't do its job very well. When you go through a pothole for example your tire doesn't have a way to go further down other than the push of its own weight against your suspension/steering components CV's, BJ's etc. Thats not good in terms of riding compliance and with those angles on everything it's worst on parts 4wd or not.

Lower the Billies to the 0" position and you should have in theory your 6" as Superlift intended, maybe put the Billies in the #1 clip if anything. If you wanted more height after that do the BL as suggested.
 

misfit77

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Just saying, but ive saw guys crack there diff housing at full droop because of angles like that. Cv pulls down on it and bam, your ******.

View attachment 214934
You bought a Ram....boom you're ******.


Why lift then ask all the questions?

You know and I know u aint going to go 4 wheelin and u aint goin to unlift it.

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Ohio5pt7

Ohio5pt7

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You bought a Ram....boom you're ******.


Why lift then ask all the questions?

You know and I know u aint going to go 4 wheelin and u aint goin to unlift it.

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If you read the post I asked after I lifted because the shop screwed up which is clearly stated. And your correct I'm not going to go wheeling and I'm not going to uplift it. But am I going to fix the issue yes. Thanks for the very productive input though.

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rwhjr

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And another thing to consider is that those 35s look too small with the added lift you have right now

So unless you wanna go 37s I’d probably not go much more than 6” total lift. I currently have about 7.5” lift on mine with 35s and they look too small.

Your option for higher lift is really the following when you’re dealing with a 1500:

1) accept having 6-7” suspension lift at the most

2) use a body lift to go higher

3) get a 2500 and lift it As high as you want


If you like your truck I’d personally put a 1.5” BL on it to keep similar height to what you have or you could even go with a 3” BL and it’s sit even higher but you’re gonna want 37s with either IMO
 

Sandevino

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This is a classic case of leading a horse to water but not being able to force it to drink...

Jack it up to just before the tires leave level pavement and take full lock photos both sides. You’re really testing the 5100s extension as they aren’t designed to geometry of the additional 1.5” spaced.

For reference, I used to run a custom machined billet 1.125” spacer that equated to a 1.5” actual fender lift. You’re probably adding ~2” to your 2.8” and the first failure mode will be that upper control arm joint.


When that separates you’re going to have 14” wheel into the inner fender and the truck will be totaled, depending on the speed you are putting others in real danger as well so at least I tried and don’t have family near you.

The insurance company will have a field day with all the available options to deny the claim.
 

kurek

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I'm sure some of you seen my thread of my new lift and how crappy my cv angles are. My question is is there a specified "limit" to the angle? Is it set in stone or is it well I wouldnt do it? Do the cv axles rotate if 4x4 isnt engaged? If not what is the danger of a extreme angle on a truck that's never engaged 4x4? FYI THIS ISNT TO START A ******* MATCH SIMPLY TO HAVE THE FACTS BEHIND WHY WE DO WHAT WE DO. Not looking for opinions only facts I know bad angles are a no no already but why?


Here's the science since you asked.

First, yes they turn all the time we don't have disconnecting hubs like 1980s trucks, that's why it's possible to shift-on-the-fly and for auto-4wd to work.

Second yes there is a hard limit, the CV stub axle sits in a "cup"... well, stick a spoon in a coffee cup and try to move it as far out of alignment as you can while keeping the tip of the spoon touching the bottom of the cup. You hit a limit right? This is no different from that.

Third... let's take a closer look at angles that are less than the hard "cup" limit and why they still are undesirable.

Here is an animation of a CV joint in action at angle:

Simple_CV_Joint_animated.gif

In terms of wear and heat notice that the balls have to travel all the way back and forth between the inner edge and the outer edge as it moves. This is friction and it's constant - sure, it's lubricated but lubricated doesn't mean zero resistance. All resistance (friction, stiction, fighting the viscosity of the grease, the inertial deflection of the balls.. all of it) turns into heat because heat is pretty much the most basic form of energy and we all know energy can be neither created nor destroyed so... when something experiences any kind of friction that resolves itself as heat. That degrades the grease which increases friction and increases heat and expands the metal since metal expands when it gets hot.

This expanding metal increases the tolerances, which puts more of the forces on the "tips" of the grooves in which the CV joint's balls are moving, which makes the joint weaker.


Notice also that when the joint is deflected the arc that the balls travel in puts them closer to the center axis of the axle, so they are up against greater leverage. Think about trying to turn a tough screw with a tiny handle screwdriver vs. a large handle screwdriver - you have to grip it a whole lot tighter if the handle of the screwdriver is smaller right? That's exactly what's going on when the balls in a CV are at less than their center apex.

Notice also how the balls are near the outer edge of the CV cup, where it is unsupported and only on one side of the cup, so there is no incentive for it to stay perfectly round under load.

Hopefully you can see from this that CV's become progressively weaker in several different ways at the same time as they are asked to handle greater angles so if you're going to ask a lot from your truck you'll spend a lot less money replacing parts if you keep your geometry as clean as possible.
 
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Ohio5pt7

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The insurance company will have a field day with all the available options to deny the claim.
You have no idea what your talking about

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Ohio5pt7

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Here's the science since you asked.

First, yes they turn all the time we don't have disconnecting hubs like 1980s trucks, that's why it's possible to shift-on-the-fly and for auto-4wd to work.

Second yes there is a hard limit, the CV stub axle sits in a "cup"... well, stick a spoon in a coffee cup and try to move it as far out of alignment as you can while keeping the tip of the spoon touching the bottom of the cup. You hit a limit right? This is no different from that.

Third... let's take a closer look at angles that are less than the hard "cup" limit and why they still are undesirable.

Here is an animation of a CV joint in action at angle:

Simple_CV_Joint_animated.gif

In terms of wear and heat notice that the balls have to travel all the way back and forth between the inner edge and the outer edge as it moves. This is friction and it's constant - sure, it's lubricated but lubricated doesn't mean zero resistance. All resistance (friction, stiction, fighting the viscosity of the grease, the inertial deflection of the balls.. all of it) turns into heat because heat is pretty much the most basic form of energy and we all know energy can be neither created nor destroyed so... when something experiences any kind of friction that resolves itself as heat. That degrades the grease which increases friction and increases heat and expands the metal since metal expands when it gets hot.

This expanding metal increases the tolerances, which puts more of the forces on the "tips" of the grooves in which the CV joint's balls are moving, which makes the joint weaker.


Notice also that when the joint is deflected the arc that the balls travel in puts them closer to the center axis of the axle, so they are up against greater leverage. Think about trying to turn a tough screw with a tiny handle screwdriver vs. a large handle screwdriver - you have to grip it a whole lot tighter if the handle of the screwdriver is smaller right? That's exactly what's going on when the balls in a CV are at less than their center apex.

Notice also how the balls are near the outer edge of the CV cup, where it is unsupported and only on one side of the cup, so there is no incentive for it to stay perfectly round under load.

Hopefully you can see from this that CV's become progressively weaker as they are asked to handle greater angles so if you're going to ask a lot from your truck you'll spend a lot less money replacing parts if you keep your geometry as clean as possible.
Holy **** the science. Thank you now there is more to it besides ugh change it now dont do it much appreciated

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Sandevino

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You have no idea what your talking about

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Not my truck either. Really don’t give a rip...

However, if your vehicles ends up causing an accident, your insurance company will send trained professionals to investigate what happened. If said professionals determine suspension components caused suspension parts to prematurely fail, sending a tire into the fender, they will call it as such. But, like I said, there will be ample evidence for them to figure out what happened.

Honestly, I’d be more afraid to hit a pot hole or expansion joint with those thin tires.

Anyway, your truck and your issue. I hope it all works out.
 
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RedSRT4Me

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Just saying, but ive saw guys crack there diff housing at full droop because of angles like that. Cv pulls down on it and bam, your ******.

View attachment 214934

That looks like the intermediate shaft not the Diff itself. Is the shaft casted as part of the entire housing or can the intermediate shaft be replaced?
 
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Ohio5pt7

Ohio5pt7

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I have no need for a hd nor do I have a want. My truck is just fine. I love how people assume that if you ask a question to have a better understanding of something you're "messing around" with something improper. Fun fact there were multiple ways to solve the issue. Remove preload spacer and keep bil setting or keep preload and set bils to zero. I opted to remove the preload spacer as have many on this forum. Either way it's done and fixed thanks to those you had legit info.
 

Moparfanatic21

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I have no need for a hd nor do I have a want. My truck is just fine. I love how people assume that if you ask a question to have a better understanding of something you're "messing around" with something improper. Fun fact there were multiple ways to solve the issue. Remove preload spacer and keep bil setting or keep preload and set bils to zero. I opted to remove the preload spacer as have many on this forum. Either way it's done and fixed thanks to those you had legit info.
Glad you decided what to do! People on here are helpful and others are not (most are the latter). I run an off road shop and was going to chime in but was beat to it :)
 
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