Transmission service 2017 Laramie, North East

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Different Drummer

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If you can swing the monthly payments that’s not a bad way to live. But I look forward to paying off my truck, freeing up the $600 cash each month and driving my truck ‘til the wheels go square without a payment.

Who knows, since I work from home now and don’t drive near what I used to since this Covid thing happened, maybe I can actually pull it off. :)


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I hear you. I never made a lot of money throughout my life and I lived a VERY frugal lifestyle. I saved money every paycheck and also made sure I put the Max. allowable into a retirement
portfolio. This was on the advise given to me when I was in my early twenties by a wise older person. I would like to think that 50 years later I am now the wise old person. This strategy allowed me to purchase my 2017 RAM without financing. My Ram is the first new vehicle four wheel I have ever purchased. I did buy a couple of new motorcycles in my lifetime. Originally I was going to attempt to do what my friend does and buy new every 4 years. That has changed not only due to financial considerations but in what is offered by RAM and the increases in cost of what is offered. Try as I may I cannot build a new truck exactly as I would like today. Not to mention that things that came standard on my 2017 are options now. i.e. rear wheel well liners.
So I look at it somewhat as you. Not to free up $600.00 a month but more from the angle of why take on a payment every month? It is something I am used to as any used vehicle I have ever purchased I drove well over 200,000 miles. So, in keeping my present truck I am in familiar territory.
 
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Different Drummer

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A bit of an experiment (not what you want to try on a $5k+ transmission) but.... Do the first complete fluid change by 60k miles, then a simple drain and refill every 10k miles after.

I would be curious if most or all of the wearing of parts was done before the unit hits 60k. Then a drain and refill just keeps fresh fluid in it.

I went this route in our old Acura which was known for a horrible transmission design that tended to grenade itself prematurely. The original trans died at 65k miles, got it replaced and every oil change did a drain and refill on the trans (about 33% fluid change each time)

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Though this goes somewhat against the grain of what I have done my entire life, I do believe that there is some merit in the idea. I definitely believe that most wear occurs in the initial life of anything mechanical with moving mating surfaces. Initial start up as well.
If going this route I think an easily replaced external filter would be something to consider.
 

chrisbh17

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Though this goes somewhat against the grain of what I have done my entire life, I do believe that there is some merit in the idea. I definitely believe that most wear occurs in the initial life of anything mechanical with moving mating surfaces. Initial start up as well.
If going this route I think an easily replaced external filter would be something to consider.

Since the transmission isnt exposed to such harsh things like combustion (in the engine), other than friction and heat the fluid doesnt really get hammered on too badly. Once most of the wear metals are gone it should, at least in theory, lead a relatively easy life.

Also an option - drain/refill every 10K. After 5 drain and refills, the next should be a drain, pan/filter change, refill. It uses more fluid, but makes the 60K mile service simpler, I would think. There is a calculator out there somewhere but by doing drain/refill of about 3 qts every 10K miles, by the time you get to 60K you've replaced something like 97% of the fluid. Id call that close enough to a complete replacement.

I think the biggest mistakes people make when doing this are 1. not levelling the trans pan to the ground (which requires lifting the rear end of the truck pretty high) and 2. thinking a drain/refill is "good enough". The problem there is that assumes the level is correct to start with, which is not an assumption I like to make.

I think the best plan would be wait until 50-60K, do a complete change (pan, filter, fluid) paying particular attention to levelling and fluid temp to ensure you end up with the perfect fluid level, using the ZF instructions.

After that, every 10K do a drain/refill. Then after 5 drain/refills, do a drain/pan/filter/refill. Except since you've ensured correct fluid level you could technically get away with replacing the amount of fluid that came out when draining the pan. No complicated temperature matching necessary.
 

JS4024

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No need to change it.... you will incur more problems if you do. Oil is basically good for 100k or more. When it’s ready have the dealer do it so you make sure they use the right fluid....
 
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Different Drummer

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No need to change it.... you will incur more problems if you do. Oil is basically good for 100k or more. When it’s ready have the dealer do it so you make sure they use the right fluid....
I am comfortable letting it go for now while I explore the options. I will not be letting it go to 100,000 miles though. Especially considering that I would like to get at least 200,000 miles out of the vehicle. I will put credence to what ZF recommends.
 

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This is for antone who has replaced their factory pan with a ppe pan. I understand if you put a factory pan back on that you need to put back the same amount of oil that you removed but if you replace the pan with a ppe, do you just fill it up to the level hole since it holds 2 extra quarts? Any info would be appreciated. I have a 2017 sport with 30,000 mi on it and I plan on replacing all my oils at 50,000 mi. I regularly change the engine oil every 5000. No lifter ticks or any problems
 

PoMansRam

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This is for antone who has replaced their factory pan with a ppe pan. I understand if you put a factory pan back on that you need to put back the same amount of oil that you removed but if you replace the pan with a ppe, do you just fill it up to the level hole since it holds 2 extra quarts? Any info would be appreciated. I have a 2017 sport with 30,000 mi on it and I plan on replacing all my oils at 50,000 mi. I regularly change the engine oil every 5000. No lifter ticks or any problems

You'd have to use the level check plug to verify proper fluid level and follow the procedure outlined for that. Truck idling in park, fluid at specified temperature (which I forget the exact temp) and the transmission pan rail needs to be level.
 

Wild one

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This is for antone who has replaced their factory pan with a ppe pan. I understand if you put a factory pan back on that you need to put back the same amount of oil that you removed but if you replace the pan with a ppe, do you just fill it up to the level hole since it holds 2 extra quarts? Any info would be appreciated. I have a 2017 sport with 30,000 mi on it and I plan on replacing all my oils at 50,000 mi. I regularly change the engine oil every 5000. No lifter ticks or any problems

That's not a sure fire way to do it,as you're assuming the transmission had the correct fluid level to start with.Even doing a factory pan/filter swap,you should still check the fluid level afterwards.
Post #2 on this thread has the fill/check procedure.
 

UHB1

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The Max life is just under $33 for five litres at Walmart. I find that doing a ZF8 drain and fill is only slightly more complex than doing a differential. It takes about 4.5 litres for a drain and fill - approx 30 to 40% of the fluid.

Complex items are getting the truck level and also up to get underneath. I drive on to 4 ramps and I have set of plywood strips (varying thickness to level the 4 corners) with 2x4 stops screwed on the ends. Once the tire is on the plywood strip the plastic Rhino ramps will not slide ahead.

To get the temp right I start cold first thing in the morning and drive onto the ramps (no delays). I have the transmission temp on the trucks’s info screen - in the summer it is about 30C at this point. Go through the drain and fill process described and I find I am wrapping up with the temp just over 40C. Well inside the 30 to 50 C that is specified.

It is not too tough but you got get under the truck. I also have a large blue Tupperware tote that is my catch basin. I use a dedicated garden pump sprayer and its trigger along with some PVC tubing to pressure the fluid up into the fill vent hole.

About 45 minutes start to finish
 

Wild one

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The Max life is just under $33 for five litres at Walmart. I find that doing a ZF8 drain and fill is only slightly more complex than doing a differential. It takes about 4.5 litres for a drain and fill - approx 30 to 40% of the fluid.

Complex items are getting the truck level and also up to get underneath. I drive on to 4 ramps and I have set of plywood strips (varying thickness to level the 4 corners) with 2x4 stops screwed on the ends. Once the tire is on the plywood strip the plastic Rhino ramps will not slide ahead.

To get the temp right I start cold first thing in the morning and drive onto the ramps (no delays). I have the transmission temp on the trucks’s info screen - in the summer it is about 30C at this point. Go through the drain and fill process described and I find I am wrapping up with the temp just over 40C. Well inside the 30 to 50 C that is specified.

It is not too tough but you got get under the truck. I also have a large blue Tupperware tote that is my catch basin. I use a dedicated garden pump sprayer and its trigger along with some PVC tubing to pressure the fluid up into the fill vent hole.

About 45 minutes start to finish

You're actually supposed to level the transmission pan rail,which entails lifting the rear of the truck in the air a fair bit.The 8 speed transmissions in the trucks don't sit level,they point downhill,in the cars the transmission sits virtually level,so you can get away with just leveling the cars,but on the trucks you should jack the rear up and level the pan rail.
 

PoMansRam

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The Max life is just under $33 for five litres at Walmart. I find that doing a ZF8 drain and fill is only slightly more complex than doing a differential. It takes about 4.5 litres for a drain and fill - approx 30 to 40% of the fluid.

Complex items are getting the truck level and also up to get underneath. I drive on to 4 ramps and I have set of plywood strips (varying thickness to level the 4 corners) with 2x4 stops screwed on the ends. Once the tire is on the plywood strip the plastic Rhino ramps will not slide ahead.

To get the temp right I start cold first thing in the morning and drive onto the ramps (no delays). I have the transmission temp on the trucks’s info screen - in the summer it is about 30C at this point. Go through the drain and fill process described and I find I am wrapping up with the temp just over 40C. Well inside the 30 to 50 C that is specified.

It is not too tough but you got get under the truck. I also have a large blue Tupperware tote that is my catch basin. I use a dedicated garden pump sprayer and its trigger along with some PVC tubing to pressure the fluid up into the fill vent hole.

About 45 minutes start to finish


If I read your earlier post right, you've got well over 100,000 kms using Valvoline Maxlife ATF correct? I believe the Eco diesels use the 8HP45? Not that this makes a difference over the 8HP70.
 

Wild one

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If I read your earlier post right, you've got well over 100,000 kms using Valvoline Maxlife ATF correct? I believe the Eco diesels use the 8HP45? Not that this makes a difference over the 8HP70.

They use the same 8HP70 as the Hemi's do,the little 3.6 Pentastar is the one that uses the 8HP45 and that 8 speed is generally referred to as the Torque Flight version as it's made by FCA,not ZF if my memory serves me right
 

PoMansRam

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They use the same 8HP70 as the Hemi's do,the little 3.6 Pentastar is the one that uses the 8HP45 and that 8 speed is generally referred to as the Torque Flight version as it's made by FCA,not ZF if my memory serves me right

Makes sense given the torque specs of the ecodiesel. I thought I had seen U-Toob videos of Ram ecodiesel owners saying they had the 8hp45 which is where I got that (wrong) assumption from. Regardless, the 70 and 45 both use the same pan kit. Not sure on fluid capacity.
 
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Different Drummer

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I have been thinking the whole thing over. After years of wrenching on everything from D8 caterpillars to lear 24's I am feeling somewhat guilty of laziness by opting to not do this myself.
That is reaffirmed after crawling under the truck today. The transmission pan is totally open and unobstructed on the V-6 2WD truck. Absolutely nothing obstruction the drain plug etc. It was a very tight squeeze getting under there with all four wheels on the ground though.
The most tedious part will be building some ramps or some way to get the truck raised to a comfortable working height as well as getting the transmission level. The old style pits we used to have in garages when I was growing up would be perfect. Sort of like what the quick lube places have.
So I have a couple of questions for anyone who has already done this. Especially if you used the PPE pan and replaceable filter.
1) Anyone ever open up the filter and examine it on the first service performed? What did you find? Also can anyone comment on what the fluid was like and how many miles were on it?
Much ****** on the magnets? Are you reusing the pan bolts and where are you purchasing a gasket? Looks like the pan comes without gasket and fasteners.

2) Looks like the OEM Mopar pan/filter has gone through a couple of generations of production.
There seems to be some superseding P/N's. I have actually found new OEM Mopar pan/filter units that say no longer available for $55.00
There seems to be a plethora of part numbers that will fit our trucks. There is a different P/N listed for the V6 as opposed to the V8 and diesel. However, wherever you look it appears that the filter / Pan is the same in all applications of the 8HP45 and 8HP70. I wonder if they have been making improvements in regards to the filter? Anyone have any information they can input?

3) On the PPE pans.
a) Looks like they are sans magnets. Anyone think this is a concern? I realize that it does have a magnetic drain plug. However, I believe the OEM has four magnets. ZF must have put them there for a reason.
b) Any input on the filter quality on the filter used in the PPE pan?
c) What in the design allows the extra capacity while not requiring a change in the oil pick up geometry?
d) Quality control? It has been reported that the filter bolt holes/ threads in the pan did not align properly with the holes in the filter. Anyone had any problems?
Also, it was posted by one person that when they contacted PPE on the misalignment issue they were told to ream out the holes in the filter as required to achieve alignment. I am not terribly impressed with that approach to solving the issue.

So it looks like I will wind up doing this myself when the weather turns better in the Spring. The truck will still have less than 50,000 mile at that time. I just have to decide what materials and products I will use.
All input is much appreciated.
DD
 
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tfeni52355

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@Different Drummer: here is the link to my post from a couple of weeks ago. 66K Miles. 2016 Longhorn Hemi, 4x4, Air suspension.

https://www.ramforum.com/posts/2371066/

First time fluid change and new pan with pics of the magnets and gunk on the magnets. Fluid was very dark but did not smell burnt.

I used a floorjack under the rear pumpkin and some jack stands under the rear shock brackets to get the tranny as level as possible. I have air suspension so it makes the clearance thing under the ruck a non issue.

I had a 2014 V-6 Bighorn before my current '16 Longhorn. Changing the pan and fluid would be a piece of cake on the V-6 compared to the Hemi with crossover pipe in the way of everything.

Good luck and let us know about the PPE Pan. It is definitely on my list when I do the next fluid change sometime next year.
 
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Different Drummer

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tfeni52355,
Thanks for the link.
I am not sure at this point if I will use the PPE pan. Verdict is still out for me. One reason is what appears to be the lack of magnets. Magnets have been employed in transmission pans for quite a while and there is obviously a reason for that. Your experience of finding the "******"
on the magnets is one of many I have seen. I am hoping that someone with the PPE pan will comment on the magnet topic. I would also be curious as to the quality of the replaceable filter that is used with the PPE pan. Another deciding factor will be the ability or lack of ability to reuse ( open and then close ) the drain plug on an OEM pan. Once the initial change is completed ( what I call the break in change ) I may consider doing fluid drain and replace at shorter intervals without removing the pan. I need to know that the drain on the non metallic pan will keep it's integrity after several openings and closings. I would do this with the PPE pan as well if I go that route. This would allow for a more complete fluid exchange over time. I have also considered the idea of attaching a strong magnet to the exterior of the PPE pan. I am just day dreaming ideas at the present time.

Yes, I was very pleasantly surprised to see the accessibility of the transmission pan with the
V-6. I don't seem to remember ever seeing unacceptably high Tans. Temps. either. I cannot help but think the lack of the heat carrying cross over pipe right under the pan is in part responsible for this.

At this point it seems obvious that getting the truck high enough to comfortably work under it is the biggest concern. I will have to raise the front some just to get working clearance. This of course means that I will have to raise the rear even higher. I am hoping that I can come up with a plan to have all four corners sitting on the wheels and elevated. I could put the front on ramps and then do jack stands on the rear if I have to I guess.
 
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Different Drummer

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Guess I will dredge this thread up.
This morning I stopped into the only independent transmission place that I have confidence in.
Actually it is a bit of a drive from me so I did not just "stop in".
I had a copy of the ZF instructions posted by Wildone with me as well as a photo of the PPE pan with information about the pan.
Owner and I were having a friendly discussion about servicing the tranny. I asked him if his lift was capable of having the rear of the truck a bit higher than the front to get the transmission level. ( independent front and rear lift posts ). I mentioned the instructions from ZF that I had in my hand, however had not given them to him to read at that point in our discussion.
He then told me that he was not interested in servicing my transmission. He made reference to my requirements on how it was done and said he did not want to be responsible for the servicing of my transmission. I said OK and we did continue with some general transmission talk for another five minutes or so. He is particularly miffed in regards to the idea that the transmission should be level. I was not going to enter into a urinary olympics on the matter and just let it go.
I did say to him that "if I was 10-15 years younger I would not be standing in front of you now".
Sooooo, looks like in the Spring there will be one old fart doing a transmission service in his driveway in Upstate NY. ;) Luckily I have plenty of mileage left before hitting my target mileage of 50,000 miles for the service.
Can anyone who has done this give me an idea of how high I have to raise the rear to get the transmission level? i.e. if the front wheels are on the ground how much would the rear of the truck have to be raised assuming it sits on a level surface. I realize that the rear wheels will sag on the suspension and that they must be free of the pavement in order to accomplish the procedure described by ZF.
Thanks to all,
DD
 

Wild one

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Guess I will dredge this thread up.
This morning I stopped into the only independent transmission place that I have confidence in.
Actually it is a bit of a drive from me so I did not just "stop in".
I had a copy of the ZF instructions posted by Wildone with me as well as a photo of the PPE pan with information about the pan.
Owner and I were having a friendly discussion about servicing the tranny. I asked him if his lift was capable of having the rear of the truck a bit higher than the front to get the transmission level. ( independent front and rear lift posts ). I mentioned the instructions from ZF that I had in my hand, however had not given them to him to read at that point in our discussion.
He then told me that he was not interested in servicing my transmission. He made reference to my requirements on how it was done and said he did not want to be responsible for the servicing of my transmission. I said OK and we did continue with some general transmission talk for another five minutes or so. He is particularly miffed in regards to the idea that the transmission should be level. I was not going to enter into a urinary olympics on the matter and just let it go.
I did say to him that "if I was 10-15 years younger I would not be standing in front of you now".
Sooooo, looks like in the Spring there will be one old fart doing a transmission service in his driveway in Upstate NY. ;) Luckily I have plenty of mileage left before hitting my target mileage of 50,000 miles for the service.
Can anyone who has done this give me an idea of how high I have to raise the rear to get the transmission level? i.e. if the front wheels are on the ground how much would the rear of the truck have to be raised assuming it sits on a level surface. I realize that the rear wheels will sag on the suspension and that they must be free of the pavement in order to accomplish the procedure described by ZF.
Thanks to all,
DD

You'll probably need the rear tires close to a foot off the ground to level the pan rail.I've never actually measured ,i just keep jacking till a small level on the pan rail is showing level,lol
 
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Different Drummer

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You'll probably need the rear tires close to a foot off the ground to level the pan rail.I've never actually measured ,i just keep jacking till a small level on the pan rail is showing level,lol
So if I jack under the axle and place jack stands under the axle the bottom of the tire needs to be 12 inches off the pavement? Damn, that seems like a lot!
But if that is what it takes, so be it.
I will have to have a look, butI am wondering if I could get the tires free of the ground by say 4 inches supported on jack stands and then jack the frame until the trans. rails are level.
It would be so much simpler if it was not necessary to run the trans in 2nd gear to 2,000 RPM.
 

Wild one

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So if I jack under the axle and place jack stands under the axle the bottom of the tire needs to be 12 inches off the pavement? Damn, that seems like a lot!
But if that is what it takes, so be it.
I will have to have a look, butI am wondering if I could get the tires free of the ground by say 4 inches supported on jack stands and then jack the frame until the trans. rails are level.
It would be so much simpler if it was not necessary to run the trans in 2nd gear to 2,000 RPM.

That's just a rough estimate,as i've never actually measured the distance,lol. I know my 6 ton jackstands are pretty well maxed out in height though. You're right though,having to have the truck upshift into 2nd with the tires off the ground and the rear-end supported by jack stands is a bit shaky,make sure you block the front tires good so it can't vibrate off the stands.I even leave my floorjack under the pumpkin as an extra measure
 
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