Gas vs. Diesel, 3.73 vs. 4.10, 2500 vs. 3500

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dhay13

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My son just bought a 2021 2500 Cummins Big Horn Night Edition. Dealer told him free lifetime oil changes (no more than 2 in a 10,000 mile period). His truck has about 2100lb payload. He traded hid 2018 2500 Big Horn 6.4 4.10's that had 2973lbs payload. He has a 2018 Grand Design Imagine 2670MK. We weighed it all loaded up it was 8100lbs with 1100lbs tongue weight. He had no issues towing it with his 6.4 but he put 95,000 miles on his old truck in 2 years and got crushed on depreciation so wanted a Cummins due to them holding their value with high miles. He hasn't towed his TT with the new truck yet
 

KKBB

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I just got back from a quick trip pulling out 5th wheel with my 6.4 with 3.73 gears. It is a 2019. Our 5th wheel weighs around 11k. The truck did well overall. It doesn't pull like my cummins powered trucks did, but does good enough for what I need. I didn't hand calculate, but with some idle time and pulling it to the campsite and back home it showed 9.4 MPG. I always loved my cummins powered trucks, but this hemi is better overall for what I need. Mostly short trips to work and back home. Roughly a mile. Where we go camping is about 60 miles away. If I was retired and traveling alot more with the camper I would go diesel, until then I'm perfectly happy with the hemi.
 

Bearcatrp

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If I was pulling the 5th wheel 3 times a month minimum, would have went for the diesel. I pull tomorrow for a short trip so a good test on flat lands. Next month I have a 6% grade leaving a camp ground. That should tell the tale how it pulls.
 

Farmer Fran

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If I was pulling the 5th wheel 3 times a month minimum, would have went for the diesel. I pull tomorrow for a short trip so a good test on flat lands. Next month I have a 6% grade leaving a camp ground. That should tell the tale how it pulls.
I bet it will be just fine.
 

Bearcatrp

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Just wow pulling this morning. Smooth shifting, no going from high rpm to next gear low rpm. Maintained in power band great. Am impressed. Can’t wait to see how it pulls up a 6% grade next month.
 

JS4024

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Ok... I've seen separate discussions o these issues but can't find one where all are combined or that fit my specific circumstances. I'm hoping to come across some new pearls of wisdom to help me decide which way to go because I'm honestly stuck at this point. The only good thing is that my options are completely open at this time... probably why I'm stuck. LOL. I'm 56 and my wife is 54 and we live in Colorado. We've been towing a 2K lb. popup for a few years with a SUV. We know that the RV life is for us and we're looking to upgrade into a 5th wheel to take us into our retirement years and beyond. The 5th wheels we're looking at are the "Half Ton Towables" from Jayco/Eagle HT, Keystone/Cougar and Grand Design/Reflection. Dry Hitch Weights are between 1400-1800 lbs. and Towing Weights range from 11K-15K lbs. Despite how the RV companies market their products we know we can't get away with a half ton truck and we're looking mainly at the 2500 but also potentially 3500. I also don't want to be maxing out the trucks rated capabilities. This will be my first truck, but after doing the research and multiple testdrives I've settled on RAM. That said, the issues I'm stuck on are transferrable to a Chevy or Ford discussion as well. Based on our lifestyle today, the truck we purchase would be my daily driver back and forth to work and I would switch off with my wife from month to month so she gets accustom to driving it as well. Daily Mileage would only be 15-25 miles. The RV would only be pulled 10-12 times per year and within 2-4 hrs max from home base at least to start. As we approach our retirement years and beyond we're going to want to branch out, go further distances and take longer duration trips. Once retired, we envision seeing the entire country and driving long distances, dropping the 5th wheel in place for a month at a time and then using the truck to take day trips. This probably won't be the last vehicle I purchase, but I do want to keep it for 10-15 yrs and it will been to fit the long term lifestyle I just laid out.
I'm looking at the 2021 Rams but know by the time I make a decision I'll be into the 2022s. Big Horn Crew Cab 4X4 is what I've settled on and if fully loaded I can get everything I want... don't need the leather or heated rear seats that the Laramie offers. I'm not opposed to spending the extra cash on Diesel but would not get the HO if I move into the 3500.

So, here are my questions...
Gas or Diesel? In the 2500, if I go Diesel I'm sacrificing significant payload but gaining towing capacity and I understand the discussion around Diesel being best in the mountains
If Gas... 3.73 or 4.10 gearing? Going Gas would be giving me the additional payload and 4.10 gearing additional towing, but it seems it will be rough on the MPG
Short or long bed? 8' Bed is slightly better payload and I like the idea of a 50 gal tank but I'm afraid it will be too much truck for my wife and she wont want to drive it
Do I move into a 3500? A 3500 Diesel will squash all my concerns around payload or capacity but the leaf spring suspension will be rough as a daily driver

If I were to rank how I'm leaning, it would be...
1. 2500 Diesel Crew Cab Short Bed
2. 2500 Gas Crew Cab with 4.10 Gearing
3. 2500 Gas Crew Cab, 4.10 Gearing, Long Bed, 50 gal tank
4. 2500 Diesel, long bed, 50 gal tank
5. 3500 Diesel, no HO, no Dually

Any thoughts? I'm looking for input from the pros that have been doing this for a while. I've also heard it said in other discussions "I've met plenty of gassers that wish the went Diesel, but never the other way around"... so I'm also looking for the gassers in this forum to speak up and be honest about their decision.
Thanks all!
So, if the MAX you will ever tow is 15,000, you are already over the limit for a 6.4L Hemi. I pull a 14,000 lb dump trailer with a 2500 HD 6.4L, and it screams pulling it. When you are revving an engine to 5,000 RPM for every shift, you are really stressing all the moving parts. So first answer go with a diesel. Max torque between 1700 and 2100 RPM, there is no screaming coming from that engine. Now I get about 8 mpg pulling my trailer, with a diesel I would be getting around 12 mpg. So diesel makes sense. Stick to the short 6 1/3 foot box. They have much better trade value. Most folks do not want that big long 8 foot box hanging behind them. They look a bit funky too even though back in the day they were the norm.
If you get a 2500 gasser with a 4.10 rear end, your mileage will be dismal. Empty with the 3.73 I get about 11 around town and maybe 16 (ish) on the highway. You put in a 4.10 and you drop a mpg.
2500 HD with the cummins with a 3.73 would be my choice. You can tow up to 16,000 (depending on how you equip it) It has to do with the over all weight not the engine capability.
If you feel you want a 3500, you MUST get the HO engine right now when you order it, but can get the SRW version. Don't let the leaf springs scare you away, honestly I notice little difference. (They are trucks).... Lesson learned, buy more than you need now vs having to take a beating on a trade down the road. You will NEED to work your diesel now and again so don't be afraid to load her up and hammer it. This is EXTREMELY important during the first 1,000 miles or so of "break in".
 

dhay13

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Actually max towing on my 2500 6.4 4.10's is about 15,560. I haven't towed near that and likely never will but I would guess it would be a struggle. I have towed 9300lbs with mine and it towed it with ease and no issues with frequent downshifting.

Mine is averaging 12.2 MPG as can be seen in my signature below, all hand calculated. In town I get about 12 MPG and about 16 on the highway at about 70 MPH. I get about 8 MPG towing an 9000lb TT. I really don't think 4.10's hurt mileage much and actually think steeper gears help in town mileage where much of your time is spent starting from a stop. The steeper gears will let the engine not work as hard. That being said, I don't think 3.73 to 4.10 will be such a difference that you would even notice it.

But I agree, at 15,000lbs you are definitely in diesel territory and the 2500 Cummins sucks as far as payload goes so towing that heavy I think a 3500 is a better option
 

man n black

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I didn't necessarily see a problem with the question, but yes it can be extremely annoying to ask a question and have people wonder why you want to do it (very common in my line of work where we learn a lot using forums). Just answer the question, or don't.

I think part of the problem in this specific case was how it was phrased; "Let me ask you, why do you need a 10000+lb trailer to cruise around the USA with 2 people?" which can be interpreted as being a judgemental question; the judgement being, there is only 2 of you so get a smaller trailer. It may not have been intended to be judgemental, but it can definitely be interpreted that way.

I'm doing now what you will be doing. I started acquiring my tow vehicle and fiver in 2015, retired in 2017, and been everywhere. This is what I did and what I would do differently.

The first thing my wife and I did was visit campgrounds and talk to campers about tow vehicles, campers, and dealers. That was quite an education.

Next, we purchased a fifth wheel. I went with a quality brand that has a rep for being well built since it was going to be pulled a lot, I didn't want an occasional use fiver. Yes, this is how they are rated.

Now that I had a fiver, I matched a tow vehicle that was comfortable with the size of the fiver, payload, and tow numbers.

After four travel seasons and closing off on 7 camping seasons, I think the groundwork I did paid off.

The only mistake I made was not getting a full-length bed. As mentioned in this thread, a short box fifth wheel cab will hit your truck's cab. I later added a sliding fifth-wheel hitch to solve the problem.

Here is what I ended up with. A Montana 3790 fifth wheel, a RAM 3500 Cummings with single rear wheels and standard output. I've got the Longhorn trim, the upgraded seating was well worth it after six-plus hours in the saddle.

Good lunch with your choices.

What these guys said...

The point about "occasional use trailer" is very important. We have a Keystone High Country Cougar 31RLT (bumper pull, 10K lbs loaded). I was thinking about this today. We love our TT and were lucky to have gotten it for a song, it's still worth more than what we paid..(yes we are 2 people plus furry kids) We have been all over this glorious country and a lot of Southern Canada too. In terms of the trailer I may have started cheaper or rather shorter to get to an idea of how it is that we like to travel. What we have discovered is that the way we travel is more akin to those who full-time. Knowing that now we would have bought differently and are now looking at Class A DP's for just that reason - a MUCH higher attention to detail and build quality that doesn't start shedding parts after a few years. Based on what and where we tow the Cummins option for me was a no brainer. The exhaust brake, 4wd and heated seats all godsends and when fuel prices were lower, all diesel everywhere (except b20) was significantly cheaper than regular fuel. Good luck in your search.

Ch
 

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Inthewind

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Have to mention something no one else has, or at least that I didn’t see:
Reese Elite Airborne/Sidewinder gets rid of the need for a slider in a 6.4 bed.
It moves the pivot point under the pin box (approx 22” back).
I’ve been pulling 16,500 with a Reese and a B&W Companion for 6 years and never once had to even think about my cab/5er nose.
BTW, if you haven’t made that decision yet, I’d always choose the HO over not.
An HO/AISIN is going to retain more value in the long term, and comon’...who in their right mind DOESN’T Want 1075ftlb of torque??
 

man n black

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Have to mention something.....I’d always choose the HO over not.
An HO/AISIN is going to retain more value in the long term, and comon’...who in their right mind DOESN’T Want 1075ftlb of torque??
Not to mention even MOAR when tuned!
 

bodasn

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Depending on when i was going to start traveling more is when i look at new. if two to three years or more away I would look on craiglist or a rv site. buy a used complete set up. in the near future trucks and campers will change. plus you will see what you prefer on what you need/ want in camper.
i tow with a short box but i use an auto slide hitch. works great but is heavy to remove.
 

Bearcatrp

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Just got back from my camping trip with that 6% grade. Did great. My 8 speed 1 ton went up in 4th around 3000 rpm’s whereas my 3/4 6 speed went up that same hill in 3rd around 4000 rpm’s. Am impressed with the 8 speed. Made the right choice going gas instead of diesel.
 

Moose2

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Let me ask you, why do you need a 10000+lb trailer to cruise around the USA with 2 people?
Not a question of need, maybe just wants. Why do we need trucks capable of pulling 30k plus if we’re not towing commercial? I don’t need 5 trucks and 5 cars either, this is America, at least it was and remains to be seen, for how much longer. Apologies for the rant, but whenever someone uses the word need, I go off a little.
 

Paul Michaels

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Hey guys, sorry if this is not for this thread! But...
I have a 2018 RAM Lone Star Edition w/ 5.6 Hemi 51000mi. Love this truck, but unfortunately, I have to upgrade to 3/4 or 1-ton to pull a 40' Montana 5th wheel w/16,000lb loaded, that I bought from my brother-in-law. I was looking to lease it, since they're soo expensive. What suggestion?
 
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