Lifter failure!

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Burla

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They replaced two lifters and rebuilt one, looks like. Too bad they didn't offer to change them all and you pay a charge for the others while the block was cracked open. Worst case scenario is you have a 4th lifter on the verge, to be honest, sad to say. Maybe not though. How much warranty do you have left? Good news is you have a fix on record, so I'm pretty sure if another lifter failed they got your back. But, I'd develop some good strategies moving forward, especially when you are out of warranty. If you use some strategies and you don't have a fail for 10k miles, it bodes well for a long engine life span.
 

Burla

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If this happens again, pay them to replace all those puppies. When the ticking started, what were outside ambient morning temps? Something stressed your lifters, I'd start isolating it and avoiding it.
 
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LuFc92

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That is what I'd do. I would also carry a oil sump magnetic heater on 12v, and always have a 12v battery charged behind the seat. Find out how long that blanket works on a charge, and figure it out. You may need a plug to adapter thingy, because most of those are plugs. I'm sure they have to have 12v adapter, but I dunno.

You know I killed my hemi tick with 5w20 redline, which is almost the same weight as other 5w20's it was knocking on, so it wasn't viscosity that helped my engine, it was the additive package. The moly and base oils is what protects cams, just like in flat tappets, they say boost zinc with flat tappets, that is your protection.
Ok well i guess i will give it a try. I really appreciate the help.

Totally off topic but do the 6.4 392's in the SRT variants suffer from lifter problems as well, reason I ask is that in the next year or two i kinda want to swap out the 5.7 for one?

Truck has warranty until June 2022 so less than a year left now.

First ticking heard would have been around 50 F
 

Burla

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Yes the 6.4 has the same issues. 50f isn't bad, maybe the damage was already done anyhow. There isnt any kind of way 3 needle bearings fail at once, if they call it a pin, it certainly can be called a pin. My best guess, and I'm just one general nobody, but my guess is you have back pressure on those lifters at cold start, and have had that for some time. When the cam lob hits that lifter and the lifter doesn't lift 100% as fast as the cam lob spins, the needle bearing is the first fail point. If it goes on longer, that is when you can expect the cam to fail. My general nobody guess.
 

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They replaced two lifters and rebuilt one, looks like. Too bad they didn't offer to change them all and you pay a charge for the others while the block was cracked open. Worst case scenario is you have a 4th lifter on the verge, to be honest, sad to say. Maybe not though. How much warranty do you have left? Good news is you have a fix on record, so I'm pretty sure if another lifter failed they got your back. But, I'd develop some good strategies moving forward, especially when you are out of warranty. If you use some strategies and you don't have a fail for 10k miles, it bodes well for a long engine life span.
shows they replaced all the lifters on both sides. says that on the print out he posted any ways and the parts replaced shows that.
 

Dodge 1500 4X4

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So just to confirm after reading your last reply, i should go with Redline 0w20 rather than the Redline 0w30?

What do you think the worst case scenario im looking at?
I live in NYS not far from your border and we get some winter days at -0 and I put 0-20 in my truck in the winter months and than 5w30w in the summer, I also use lubegard Bio Tech 15oz with every oil change, I was getting ticking and dry start knock ( piston scuffing) with the thinner oil these noises went almost away, meaning with Burla help and strategy was a big help.
 

Dodge 1500 4X4

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Also they said they replaced all lifters in the write up, but on the parts listing it states:
2 tappets, 2 tappets that looks like four and they were all MDS as stated.
 
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Burla

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Plus 8 gaskets and 8 seals, I think Retired is right. Great news for OP.
Pretty good service if you ask me, it is rare dealers do all this without a mis fire.

Question, before you start the truck, if you put the hammer down and leave it down and then try and start it, what rotates without starting? Does the battery actually move the crank? I go to do that tomorrow just to check.
 
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LuFc92

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Thanks for all the input guys, hopefully this thread provides more insight to others in a similar situation.
The dealership were very helpful for there part, it was the chrysler canada side of it that was the issue.
They got it in and done pretty much the next day after dropping off the receipts/info needed so can't complain there.
 

Rod Knock

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Thanks for all the input guys, hopefully this thread provides more insight to others in a similar situation.
The dealership were very helpful for there part, it was the chrysler canada side of it that was the issue.
They got it in and done pretty much the next day after dropping off the receipts/info needed so can't complain there.
Thank you for taking us on your journey of getting your Hemi 5.7 fixed and in good working order. You are fortunate to have dealt with a good dealership. The service advisors at my local RAM/Dodge/Jeep/Chrysler dealership have each a sign on their forehead that lights up and blinks intermittently in red every time someone shows up with potential lifter issues or even a ticking engine, saying: "Go Away! ... Go Away! ... Go Away!"

Humor aside, I am genuinely happy for you. What happened to you makes me a believer once again in my original theory and what I have been told by two engine builders that are local to me, that sometimes Chrysler installed poorly built lifters in new engines. Of course, they will never own up to it and instead point the finger at their suppliers.

In closing, I'd like to say that while I run Red Line 5W-30 as a precaution trying to keep my Hemi humming along for as long as possible and that I have a supply for the next two years in my stash, there is a gentleman on this forum who put over 300K miles on 5.7 Hemi running nothing but Mobil 1 Extended Performance 5W-20 with 15K OCIs. Here is the thread: https://www.ramforum.com/threads/2014-ram-rc-swb-1500-4x4-rebuild.170447/post-2542397

Here is a UOA from a 5.7 Hemi with over 120K miles on the clock. This Hemi was never well taken care of, and this UOA is an extended OCI of 15K miles on Mobil 1 EP 5W-20: https://tinyurl.com/long-live-hemi. I found it particularly humorous when the person who did the truck's maintenance said that his father-in-law used "bar and chain" oil for top-off. To make a joke, I guess that's the "magic oil" needed to avoid lifter issues, not expensive additives and engine oils.

Your story, combined with the above thread, and the UOA I linked, gives credence to the theory that Chrysler has quality control related issues on their supplier's side when it comes to lifters, possibly even cams, but lifters most likely, and that these issues are still alive, and well. Some owners who run minimum spec oil and don't take outstanding care of their trucks enjoy them well beyond 100K, even 200K miles, while those of us who over maintain them and spend copious amounts of money on oil and filters run into lifter issues. I guess Murphy's law is alive and well, and that's how life goes sometimes.
 
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Burla

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Thanks for all the input guys, hopefully this thread provides more insight to others in a similar situation.
The dealership were very helpful for there part, it was the chrysler canada side of it that was the issue.
They got it in and done pretty much the next day after dropping off the receipts/info needed so can't complain there.

Glad they came through for ya. The reason I wondered about the battery turning the engine is because when you start an engine normally that is 400hp pushing those lifters up no matter what condition they are in. If and I say "if" when you battery turn the engine, as in without gas or starting, if that moves the lifters, it would be something you could try before starting your truck in -40f. Just looking for options here, since this happened with about 40k miles, can't we expect the same if your habits are the same? I wouldn't say that if it was one odd lifter, but 3 alerts me to something else going on.

Just research that, maybe try it, put hammer down all the way, don't let foot up at all, and start your truck. I think that battery spins the engine without starting it with all that 400hp torque. Then you proceed to start your truck regularly, but only after in theory you just gently moved the lifters. Along with the other strategies to employ, you figure out how to best protect that truck. Good luck, b
 

Team Horner

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Question, before you start the truck, if you put the hammer down and leave it down and then try and start it, what rotates without starting? Does the battery actually move the crank? I go to do that tomorrow just to check.
I can confirm my 2018 Power Wagon with the 6.4 will do exactly that - go pedal down, turn the key, cranks without firing for 15-20 seconds. I do it every time it has sat in the garage for a few days before I start it.
 
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LuFc92

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I've been driving the truck around today as its my day off and it runs so smooth once more. Start up there are zero noises and its nice and quiet. It was definitely running a little rough before as i can tell the difference now driving it after the fix.

The dealership were good to deal with, i think there were just being over cautious before tearing my engine apart which i can understand. The fact that once the tech heard the noise he identified immediately as lifter problems tells me they have experience with it. He didn't even try and say it could be anything else.

I do know of a couple of guys locally that have had lifters fail on 2018s and 2019s so i can't comment on whether they actually improved or changed the design. Mine is a 2017 after all
 
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LuFc92

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Glad they came through for ya. The reason I wondered about the battery turning the engine is because when you start an engine normally that is 400hp pushing those lifters up no matter what condition they are in. If and I say "if" when you battery turn the engine, as in without gas or starting, if that moves the lifters, it would be something you could try before starting your truck in -40f. Just looking for options here, since this happened with about 40k miles, can't we expect the same if your habits are the same? I wouldn't say that if it was one odd lifter, but 3 alerts me to something else going on.

Just research that, maybe try it, put hammer down all the way, don't let foot up at all, and start your truck. I think that battery spins the engine without starting it with all that 400hp torque. Then you proceed to start your truck regularly, but only after in theory you just gently moved the lifters. Along with the other strategies to employ, you figure out how to best protect that truck. Good luck, b
I honestly don't know, there are literally thousands and thousands of RAMs up here in Alberta/Canada all going through winter the same way, if not worse than mine. I plug it in almost every night or when its not being used and i try not to idle the truck and if it is frozen over i will usually sit in it and raise the rpms slightly so that its not sat at idle while defrosting.

Maybe there is some underlying problem with my engine but without something going wrong or having it stripped down i won't know.
 

Burla

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I do know of a couple of guys locally that have had lifters fail on 2018s and 2019s so i can't comment on whether they actually improved or changed the design. Mine is a 2017 after all
they have multiple lifters as well? More and more it looks like something whether related, how cold is too cold to start an engine. When it is that cold at a minimum I'd battery turn the engine before gas starting it. But, i'd look into other options as well. Next 40k miles your truck will be out of warranty.
 
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LuFc92

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Couldn't tell you the exact failure without contacting them but i know one had to have the lifters and camshaft replaced and his truck had a lot less KMs than mine. He didn't even know it was a thing, he just told me casually like he was just unlucky and maybe had a bad truck from the factory.

It could very well be weather related, how many guys up in Alaska are having the same failures? Or the opposite end of the scale and the guys down south in the heat? Are they also having the same rate of failures?
 

Burla

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There some guys that look at snow mobiles when it is too cold and they say it is too cold to start, and they don't even have oil in the sump, or oil at all except of course in the gas. I don't know what temp is too cold to start with normal procedures.

It may be the combo of things man, the fact hemi's have a weakness in their cams/lifters and the cold, a combo thing. They replaced lifters which is great, but if three needle bearings failed you can also bet you have some good cam wear down there. One thing we don't have is are there more failures in snow belt per capital then everywhere else. When your lifter is sitting there 40 below zero it can easily even be froze to bore. That would be hell on those lifters at start up. Honestly with the cold thing all I have is guesses based on my ram buddies experience, I learned from them, but this is the first time I even heard three lifters at once, except maybe Kap, I forget his deal but it was bad as well and not cold related, I believe he was local to me in CA.

Do you have a catch can? Another idea to keep any moisture out of combustion chamber and internals. I'm pretty sure there is a temp that should be considered too cold to start, I just don't know what that temp is. Some homework for ya, I bet many people will look at you like your crazy.
 

HEMIMANN

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Vapor point of gasoline is -40C / -40F (same as propane, coincidently), at sea level atmospheric pressure. It's lower for those in the mountains (less atmospheric air pressure = lower vaporization temperature).

Ambient temps below these conditions means gasoline will not vaporize, and therefore engine will not start without help (heater, ether, whatever).
 
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