Active shutters, what's the consensus?

MRFREEZE57 said:

Am curious, has anyone ever had the shutter system fail and do they have a fail safe in the open position?

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They have been known to fail.My buddies shutters went south on his 15 R/T ,but i don't know if they failed in the open position or in the closed position.

If it aint broke dont fix it if ya ask me

Wild one said:

Post a picture of the front of the rad then.Maybe the Rebels don't have them,but i highly question that if it has the 8 speed,i'd have to see a picture first before i'd believe they don't have them

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There's no maybe about it, and I assure you that you don't know more about the specifics of my truck than I do, but here's a pic. You can see the mounting infrastructure is there for them, but there was never an active shutter system in my truck and I took delivery with 11 miles on the clock.

rule18 said:

There's no maybe about it, and I assure you that you don't know more about the specifics of my truck than I do, but here's a pic. You can see the mounting infrastructure is there for them, but there was never an active shutter system in my truck and I took delivery with 11 miles on the clock.

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Wtf? If you get a chance can you look under the bottom of the truck around that area and see if you a connector that is not plugged into anything? I will look where my actuator plug goes later today and let you know where to look.

I want to see an Alfa OBD log with a truck that came from the factory with no AGS. Specifically, I want to know what is different with yours VS mine where I would have a CEL if I just removed the actuator. And you clearly don't have an actuator. That is IF alfa can even see the AGS stuff which I am not sure at the moment.

rule18 said:

There's no maybe about it, and I assure you that you don't know more about the specifics of my truck than I do, but here's a pic. You can see the mounting infrastructure is there for them, but there was never an active shutter system in my truck and I took delivery with 11 miles on the clock.

View attachment 477577

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Your 17 is differant then my neighbours 18 Rebel,as his has the shutters.Wonder if the Canadian Rebels have them,or if it's the differance in years. Keep your p anties on,no need to get hostile there lad

Wild one said:

Your 17 is differant then my neighbours 18 Rebel,as his has the shutters.Wonder if the Canadian Rebels have them,or if it's the differance in years. Keep your p anties on,no need to get hostile there lad

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Nobody's getting hostile, just pointing out that you couldn't possibly know more about the specifics of my truck than I do. No big deal, you needed a pic so I provided one. That's all.

Only way to go.

rule18 said:

How about everyone takes one giant step back from firing shots across bows?

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No doubt! I still couldn’t figure why some of them were so antagonistic.

G-Ride990 said:

Wtf? If you get a chance can you look under the bottom of the truck around that area and see if you a connector that is not plugged into anything? I will look where my actuator plug goes later today and let you know where to look.

I want to see an Alfa OBD log with a truck that came from the factory with no AGS. Specifically, I want to know what is different with yours VS mine where I would have a CEL if I just removed the actuator. And you clearly don't have an actuator. That is IF alfa can even see the AGS stuff which I am not sure at the moment.

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I don't think AlphaOBD can do anything about the shutters,but you can delete them with HP tuning,and i think even a custom Diablo tune can delete them.

rule18 said:

There's no maybe about it, and I assure you that you don't know more about the specifics of my truck than I do, but here's a pic. You can see the mounting infrastructure is there for them, but there was never an active shutter system in my truck and I took delivery with 11 miles on the clock.

View attachment 477577

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I have to admit i made a mistake Rule,i thought all 8 speed 1500's came with the shutters,but i just looked at a 2021 Warlock with the 8 speed,and it doesn't have the shutters either.It doesn't even appear to have the assembly that would hold the shutters like your truck has Rule.

Wild one said:

I have to admit i made a mistake Rule,i thought all 8 speed 1500's came with the shutters,but i just looked at a 2021 Warlock with the 8 speed,and it doesn't have the shutters either.It doesn't even appear to have the assembly that would hold the shutters like your truck has Rule.

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All good, thanks for the follow up though.

I have been following this thread and others like it for a while.
I have noticed the 5.7 hemi up until 2017 did not have an oil heater. 2017 and after does. Meaning the 2017 and after oil heater uses extremely hot water coming out of the forward part of the right head.
Even though it heats the oil, it also adds just a bit of cooling to the oil above a certain temperature. It can be seen on trucks 2016 vs 2017 that the oil runs a bit cooler. Sometimes people mistakenly thing it’s an oil cooler and it is not. It’s not made to cool oil, so it does a poor job at it.
A characteristic of engine oil is takes a while to transfer heat. Its molecular structure is much different than water, which transfers heat quickly.
The hemi’s engine block is cast iron. That means the property of cast iron, its also a very poor conductor of heat. Where aluminum is the opposite, it transfers heat quickly.
There is no hemi oil cooler available from Chrysler for the hemi.
So the hemi oil is continuously running warm Under many conditions.
No how does this relate to the AGS?
Because of the extremely poor oil cooling capability of the hemi, and the characteristics of poor heat transfer from cast iron blocks, removing the AGV brings engine coolant temperature lower to give the block and heads a better transfer of heat from the oil.
So to give you the readers digest condensed version, removing the AGV lowers the oil temperature via airflow and water coolant temperatures by heat exchange with the hotter oil.
So yes, for those people that tow a lot and get higher oil temperatures, it does indeed benefit the engine by removing AGVs.

Bigs said:

Yep! Mine are staying on for that reason as well. Well pretty much everything is remaining stock just for warranty claim issues. (except my muffler)

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Wait till you find out dodge does not use actual mileage to determine warranty. They use engine running hours instead. Yes I know unfair, but it is what it is.

Colt4thHorseman said:

I have been following this thread and others like it for a while.
I have noticed the 5.7 hemi up until 2017 did not have an oil heater. 2017 and after does. Meaning the 2017 and after oil heater uses extremely hot water coming out of the forward part of the right head.
Even though it heats the oil, it also adds just a bit of cooling to the oil above a certain temperature. It can be seen on trucks 2016 vs 2017 that the oil runs a bit cooler. Sometimes people mistakenly thing it’s an oil cooler and it is not. It’s not made to cool oil, so it does a poor job at it.
A characteristic of engine oil is takes a while to transfer heat. Its molecular structure is much different than water, which transfers heat quickly.
The hemi’s engine block is cast iron. That means the property of cast iron, its also a very poor conductor of heat. Where aluminum is the opposite, it transfers heat quickly.
There is no hemi oil cooler available from Chrysler for the hemi.
So the hemi oil is continuously running warm Under many conditions.
No how does this relate to the AGS?
Because of the extremely poor oil cooling capability of the hemi, and the characteristics of poor heat transfer from cast iron blocks, removing the AGV brings engine coolant temperature lower to give the block and heads a better transfer of heat from the oil.
So to give you the readers digest condensed version, removing the AGV lowers the oil temperature via airflow and water coolant temperatures by heat exchange with the hotter oil.
So yes, for those people that tow a lot and get higher oil temperatures, it does indeed benefit the engine by removing AGVs.

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I have seen this argument more than once. It is VERY common up here for Diesel Highway tractors to have active shutter systems on them to deal with the cold weather and wide variation in summer to winter temperatures. Even if your theory of oil heat transfer, coolant temp etc is correct, please explain to me how airflow is improved by removing the shutters, versus what happens when the shutters are fully open. The shutters are fully open once the engine gets to temp, and for sure when pulling a heavy load.

Dean2, thank you for the question.
Because the transfer of heat is so slow in oil and cast iron, it takes a longer period of time for the transfer to happen.
As you are familiar with AGS operation, you are aware the shutters stay close to approximately 220-225 degrees F, and then open for a very short time until the coolant temperature drops to approximately 190 F. I reason this because it will take time for the the thermostats to catch up to the radiator temperature decrease. The actual amount of time needed to transfer the heat from the oil to the water jacket is only fractional. My guess, it is 1/10th of the the operating time. This is calculated by observing the temperature fluctuated on the temperature gage.
Oil temperature mostly controlled by water jacket temperature as you know.
As an example, if water temperature remains at approximately 225 F, the shutters will never open. The engine thermostat would be wide open since the operating temperature of a thermostat is approximately 205F.
So let’s use an acceptable number of oil temperature normal operating range can be up to 25-30 degrees higher than than water jacket temperature.
If that is the case in this scenario, the oil temperature would remain at 250-255F under loaded conditions.
In the same scenario, the water jacket may get as high 205F, the oil temperatures would be 225-230F. I think fully reasonable temperatures for oil.
Is 250-255 F oil temperature acceptable? Well, I am not a fan of that, however it is still within limits.
One of the things you mentioned is that the shutters are fully open when the engine gets to operating temperature. Well, yes and no. The shutters open and the temperature coolant drops quickly to about 190F. The shutters quickly close again until the engine gets to approximately 220-225 again. The transition time from shutter closing to opening again is the problem for engine oil. Again, the short time the shutters are open is not sufficient to reduce oil temperature enough. Just because the coolant sensing unit is reading at one part of the water jacket, it does not mean another area of the water jacket has the same temperature.

Addtionally, if you look at people’s past comments about removing the shutters, they all say oil temperatures are lowered.

i pull a utility trailer and at times my tranny temps seamed to spike. After reading numerous threads on here and watching some YouTube videos I gained the confidence to remove my grill to access them. After examining it and cleaning it up and the radiator and trans cooler of all the bugs and checking its function with AlphaOBD I decided that before I remove any fins lets see if any of this made a difference. Well it most definitely did. My temps are where they are supposed to be and Im betting its from removing and cleaning the coolers of all the bugs and road shat. Shutters are still in......

Dean2 said:

I have seen this argument more than once. It is VERY common up here for Diesel Highway tractors to have active shutter systems on them to deal with the cold weather and wide variation in summer to winter temperatures. Even if your theory of oil heat transfer, coolant temp etc is correct, please explain to me how airflow is improved by removing the shutters, versus what happens when the shutters are fully open. The shutters are fully open once the engine gets to temp, and for sure when pulling a heavy load.

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There must be a reason why some trucks don't have the shutters,while others do.I thought all 8 speed 1500's had the shutters,but after Rules post about his Rebel not having them,and looking at a new Warlock yesterday that also isn't equipped with the AGS system,it makes me curious on why some 1500's have them,while others don't. Even open the shutters will still restrict airflow across the rad,alibit it'd be a very minor restriction though,so there might be something to Colts theory

Shutters are better than putting cardboard in front of radiator in the winter.Until they stick closed at least.Personally I can live with the most basic vehicle and not have to ever deal with malfunctioning technology. But my other truck is a 77 v8 non computer marvel with a handle to roll the window down....lol. I was insane for ever going for modern tech when there are antiques out there right? nah, not enough cup holders in old antiques anyway.lol

I am loving the grill shutters here in northern Canada. My ‘20 PW warms up twice as fast as my ‘09 1500 did. People can complain all they want about the new stuff, but when it works, it works well. Progress is not made by driving a model t.

Colt4thHorseman said:

There is no hemi oil cooler available from Chrysler for the hemi.

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Sure there is, the police package had one from the factory.

https://www.mymoparparts.com/oem-parts/mopar-engine-oil-cooler-5037523ab