Synthetic Oil

FalconHemi said:

@Travis8352 here is forum member @MOPAR78 who put 300K miles on his 2014 Ram 1500 using Mobil 1 EP 5W-20 and the big Mopar oil filter: https://www.ramforum.com/threads/2014-ram-rc-swb-1500-4x4-rebuild.170447/post-2458591

I'd say that's not too shabby.

Also, for anyone wondering, PUP and PP 0W-20 and 5W-20 are missing the valvetrain wear test, covered under ACEA A5/B5. The only ones that have them are PUP and PP 5W-30, which are ACEA A5/B5 compliant. ACEA A1/B1 is now considered to be obsolete and does not include said test. Mobil 1 0W-20 and 5W-20 don't have it either. Castrol EDGE and EDGE EP 0W-20 and 5W-20 are ACEA C5 compliant, which does include a valvetrain wear test. Just in case anyone was curious.

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FalconHemi, thanks for the mention!

Currently she has over 326,000 miles on her. I've been furtunate not to have major engine meltdowns. My previous Daytona Ram had over 362,000 miles on her when she was sold. I used the same oil & filter.

@Treburkulosis - I just wanted to check on you, see if you made the switch to Mobil 1 FS 0W-40, and ask how you like it. I briefly used Mobil 1 EP 5W-20, and it was good, and fuel mileage was great, but I tow from time to time, and I feel better running my favorite oil in my HEMI, Mobil 1 FS 0W-40.

Too many games played by too many consolidated corporations hiding too much data to figure out what to do anymore. These are not good times for many of us. At least we can share what we can find out here.

To date, I've had good observable service from PUP 5W-30 SN since 2015 or so, noticeably better than Mobil 1 5W-20 and 5W-30. Mobil 1 consumed a quart per 5,000 miles in ALL of my automotive engines, and developed a Hemi tick on my 2012 5.7L. The tick stopped when I changed to PUP. These are not disputable facts. These actually happened.

How significant are they? Completely debatable. I would think, however, that the knowledgeable scientific among us might concur that engine oil loss within the same viscosity grade, API Service Classification, engine, and operating conditions compared to another oil that does not, is NOT a good thing. My operating presumption is the NOACK is poor for Mobil 1, causing evaporative loss and possible early oxidation and varnishing of internal engine parts.

Shell has a sterling reputation and lubricant development capability. Mobil USED TO, until Exxon took them over. I know for a fact Exxon savaged Mobil's Princeton Development Laboratory, many let go and shut down. Exxon wanted Mobil's finished product profits - nothing else. Exxon was the world's largest E&P (Exploration and Production) of hydrocarbons - i.e. - wholesaler. Pump 'n dump.

Royal Dutch Shell operates differently, being of European origin. They have some sense of integrity. Further, the GTL is an old, old process (Fischer-Tropsch) the N*azi's used to make synthetic oil and fuel during WWII. Shell just modified it for using natural gas feed stock instead of coal gas feed stock. They have a huge natural gas LNG plant in Qatar in the Middle East. Their final GTL base oil is truly an API Group III "Plus". It has a higher saturated molecule content than required for Group III. It is an excellent product without the extra cost of Group IV PAO or Group V POE.

The only reason Red Line is in play for me is the Hemi needing extra lubrication help for the lifters and cam. If the latest owners (Conoco-Phillips) are fooling around with it to cheapen it, they sure as hell aren't gonna tell anyone.

The 5w20 and 5w30 arent changing, I wouldnt trust the 0w30 moly level until I saw it, the problem being we don't know when they will switch. Anyone liking the 0w30 redline might want to stock up. They are going after a specific market with that product, Dave says moly shouldnt change but that isnt an overwhelming statement right there. The bottom line Redline is the only oil killing hemi tick, that's it and that's all, and 0w30 is a for sure tick killer as well, but if someone who has had 0w30 killing thier ticks like corey actually gets a new tick, then let us know. It isnt like some super genius has anymore answers for us, 80% have fixed hemi tick, and nothing else has, so what are you r options? Do something like run 0w40 otc brand, good luck with that, see you in the redline line after 100 miles. With the latest video highlighting pao branch chains, there simply isnt any company putting the effort into their oil like redline for protecting metal. Motul is using group 3/esters I do believe, and many uoa's showing zero moly. So unless something has change,d our hunt for options is limited. If you have hemi tick and you stopped the ticking with a lubrication strategy, id stay put, you are just asking for damage when that tick comes back.

Burla said:

The 5w20 and 5w30 arent changing, I wouldnt trust the 0w30 moly level until I saw it, the problem being we don't know when they will switch. Anyone liking the 0w30 redline might want to stock up. They are going after a specific market with that product, Dave says moly shouldnt change but that isnt an overwhelming statement right there. The bottom line Redline is the only oil killing hemi tick, that's it and that's all, and 0w30 is a for sure tick killer as well, but if someone who has had 0w30 killing thier ticks like corey actually gets a new tick, then let us know. It isnt like some super genius has anymore answers for us, 80% have fixed hemi tick, and nothing else has, so what are you r options? Do something like run 0w40 otc brand, good luck with that, see you in the redline line after 100 miles. With the latest video highlighting pao branch chains, there simply isnt any company putting the effort into their oil like redline for protecting metal. Motul is using group 3/esters I do believe, and many uoa's showing zero moly. So unless something has change,d our hunt for options is limited. If you have hemi tick and you stopped the ticking with a lubrication strategy, id stay put, you are just asking for damage when that tick comes back.

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The only other options for a high moly/ester oil would be driven fr20 or ls30. 600ppm moly along with high zddp and pao/poe. Or hpl but id suspect their ester content is low when compared to redline. They use pao/an/ester with 600 ppm moly and high magnesium around 2000ppm i believe. I dont really see anything else that could possibly fit

I hate engine oil threads, they always end up with somebody affended. There are hundreds of opinions and stories about there oil did this and that. The biggest thing that Dodge found after many studies. Is most all people don't follow what the vehicles owners manual tells them to change there oil and filter. The area that comes into play here is the southern parts of the USA. Florida all of Florida is a 3000 mile oil change area. Its a little confusing for some folks. But Florida see's temps higher than what the engine oil can handle. And per the owners manual the oil and filter should be changed every 3000 miles. And even sooner if caught in heavy traffic for a long period of time, spent idling.
I live in N.E.Florida and I know for sure, about oil getting cooked from sitting in traffic. When my two boys where still in grade school. My wife would pick the up on her way home from work. They would spend at least hour and half everyday in traffic. If an auto accedent occured it could take hours to clear. I could hear my Chrysler Town & County mini van rattling up the road home. It took that 3.8L V6 hours to cool down. I kept everything at home to change the oil, before the next days trip. The oil alway had the burnt smell.

So just plain if you want a good dependable engine change to oil. And the filter!!
I have repaired more than I can remember sludge up engines from not changing oil after a long hot cook in traffic. I have heard all the whinning and crying. If the oil pump screen is plugged up Chrysler Dodge does not have to pay.

Travis8352 said:

The only other options for a high moly/ester oil would be driven fr20 or ls30. 600ppm moly along with high zddp and pao/poe. Or hpl but id suspect their ester content is low when compared to redline. They use pao/an/ester with 600 ppm moly and high magnesium around 2000ppm i believe. I dont really see anything else that could possibly fit

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I think there may be other options as well, millers might even be better then redline, but I am talking about time tested widespread distribution type products, while millers is one such product it is quite expensive by the time you get it to your door. There is time tested, plus ram forum tested, I don't see the argument for using something other then redline at this point, but that is just an opinion. if it aint broke dont fix it hey corey, lol.

1970Pelle said:

I hate engine oil threads, they always end up with somebody affended. There are hundreds of opinions and stories about there oil did this and that. The biggest thing that Dodge found after many studies. Is most all people don't follow what the vehicles owners manual tells them to change there oil and filter. The area that comes into play here is the southern parts of the USA. Florida all of Florida is a 3000 mile oil change area. Its a little confusing for some folks. But Florida see's temps higher than what the engine oil can handle. And per the owners manual the oil and filter should be changed every 3000 miles. And even sooner if caught in heavy traffic for a long period of time, spent idling.
I live in N.E.Florida and I know for sure, about oil getting cooked from sitting in traffic. When my two boys where still in grade school. My wife would pick the up on her way home from work. They would spend at least hour and half everyday in traffic. If an auto accedent occured it could take hours to clear. I could hear my Chrysler Town & County mini van rattling up the road home. It took that 3.8L V6 hours to cool down. I kept everything at home to change the oil, before the next days trip. The oil alway had the burnt smell.

So just plain if you want a good dependable engine change to oil. And the filter!!
I have repaired more than I can remember sludge up engines from not changing oil after a long hot cook in traffic. I have heard all the whinning and crying. If the oil pump screen is plugged up Chrysler Dodge does not have to pay.

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This thread is a little different as when it started ram members were facing an enemy inside their engines and we spent a decade developing a fix, if it was possible. Check out hemi tick threads that we fruits of that labor then decide? redline and lubegard, see what people tested and found over the last decade, 100's of random ram forum members posted results. It has nothing to do about brand, it is indeed about the science, and as it turns out the science of those products actually follow the white paper out there. In most applications it doesnt matter, run 7'11 oil and get 300k miles, but in a ticking hemi, it pays to chose a strategy based on science.

When you have a ticking hemi which is more like a knock, and then it goes quiet after an oil change and stays quiet, there is no convincing those people to run a different oil.

Burla said:

I think there may be other options as well, millers might even be better then redline, but I am talking about time tested widespread distribution type products, while millers is one such product it is quite expensive by the time you get it to your door. There is time tested, plus ram forum tested, I don't see the argument for using something other then redline at this point, but that is just an opinion. if it aint broke dont fix it hey corey, lol.

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Ohh yes that makes sense. I guess the only reason anyone should change their redline strategy is if the formula is a negative change which i highly doubt and a tick comes back

1970Pelle said:

I hate engine oil threads, they always end up with somebody affended. There are hundreds of opinions and stories about there oil did this and that. The biggest thing that Dodge found after many studies. Is most all people don't follow what the vehicles owners manual tells them to change there oil and filter. The area that comes into play here is the southern parts of the USA. Florida all of Florida is a 3000 mile oil change area. Its a little confusing for some folks. But Florida see's temps higher than what the engine oil can handle. And per the owners manual the oil and filter should be changed every 3000 miles. And even sooner if caught in heavy traffic for a long period of time, spent idling.
I live in N.E.Florida and I know for sure, about oil getting cooked from sitting in traffic. When my two boys where still in grade school. My wife would pick the up on her way home from work. They would spend at least hour and half everyday in traffic. If an auto accedent occured it could take hours to clear. I could hear my Chrysler Town & County mini van rattling up the road home. It took that 3.8L V6 hours to cool down. I kept everything at home to change the oil, before the next days trip. The oil alway had the burnt smell.

So just plain if you want a good dependable engine change to oil. And the filter!!
I have repaired more than I can remember sludge up engines from not changing oil after a long hot cook in traffic. I have heard all the whinning and crying. If the oil pump screen is plugged up Chrysler Dodge does not have to pay.

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I agree theres mobil guys castrol guys and amsoil guys and the whatever the quicklube/dealer uses guys and in general it doesnt make a difference. However we have seen guys have ticking lifters and wiped out cams from guys that ran an ms6395 synthetic oil in the 5w20 viscosity with a mopar filter every 3000 miles and still lost a cam at 60k or some guys run spec oil and never idle their truck and lose a cam at 65k but theres been a guy who ran mobil 1 5w20 extended performance with a quart of bar and chain oil top off at 15k oci and had a perfect uoa. Bottom line is its a parts issue that has seen failures across all oils and all oil change schedules. 3k-15k synthetic/conventional/amsoil as well. However for those that develop the tick, no oil has solved this issue other than redline. And thats what this thread has discovered

I run PUP 0W40 in the 6.4L and Wix XP. I run PUP 0W20 in the Durango Pentastar and OEM filter. My Son runs 0W40 PUP and Wix XP in his 5.7L Built to Serve. These 3 at 5K OCI. I ran 0W40 PUP in my Viper going with the recommendation of the Engineer's (my 2008 Viper was OEM filled with Mobil 1 originally). Viper oil got changed at least once per year with SRT filter before hibernation. I think we tend to overthink this oil and filter stuff. I agree if you are addressing a problem then it makes sense to try something different. IMHO

Good option for fobs, the local battery plus outfit said they can program any fob if you bring them one programmed fob, their charge isnt cheap 69 dollars, but it is what it is, cheaper then dealer. Bring your own or buy from them a fob replacement. Chip keys as well, same thing if you have one example of the key, they can duplicate it.

Burla said:

Good option for fobs, the local battery plus outfit said they can program any fob if you bring them one programmed fob, their charge isnt cheap 69 dollars, but it is what it is, cheaper then dealer. Bring your own or buy from them a fob replacement. Chip keys as well, same thing if you have one example of the key, they can duplicate it.

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I miss my cheap metal keys that any hardware store could copy for a buck or two.

right.

I programmed a bunch of fobs before I found out the weak link is the WIN module, lmao? Maybe someday all of that was for nothing, but I have 5 fobs for now knock wood. As long as you have one working fob, that is all they need.

Just stumbled on this. I have no affiliation or experience with the company.

tjfdesmo said:

Just stumbled on this. I have no affiliation or experience with the company.

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Hey - they showed up in my feed also. Maybe they're a new distributor doing a big marketing push?

Pricing looked lowest around right now. Maybe an introductory loss leader? Anybody else heard of 'Elite'?

Followup to yesterday's rant,

I sent a sample of Red Line HP 5W-30 SN oil new right out of the bottle to Blackstone Lab for analysis a couple weeks ago. I'm waiting for results, it might be a while due to the holiday period.

I'm interested in 100C viscosity because my 4,600 mile UOA came back low relative to Red Line Spec Sheet's "typical" viscosity. All the recent hubub about possible oil recipe changes and various communique's has me concerned. The UOA was chock full of additives, so that's not my concern. Since Blackstone doesn't test for NOACK, HTHS, or CCS, I can't tell if they've messed with their base oil stock either, nor if or what their latest corporate owner's market strategy is.

Yeah, yeah - we should all not worry and be happy, right? Sorry - a $4,500 overhauled engine, or $9,000 new engine, with an estimated (by FCA Technicians) 5-10% catastrophic failure rate, plus weeks of loss of vehicle use is a major deal to me, ok? Not only that, but no guarantee the replacement won't fail again. So if a new corporation decides to screw with something behind the scenes, it's a big deal. Don't start with the EV will fix everything either, in this thread. Not only will it not, the problems are just starting to surface on that side of the fence too.

HEMIMANN said:

Hey - they showed up in my feed also. Maybe they're a new distributor doing a big marketing push?

Pricing looked lowest around right now. Maybe an introductory loss leader? Anybody else heard of 'Elite'?

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Falconhemi i believe posted about them. 38 a gallon is cheap for redline

tjfdesmo said:

Just stumbled on this. I have no affiliation or experience with the company.

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free ship in usa, hell of a deal there only 5 left.

Happy New Year to all my friends on RamForum!!! @Travis8352 @Hemi395 @Wild one @HEMIMANN @Burla and everyone else, may 2022 be, if only, a little bit better than this year that we're about to leave behind in a few hours!!!

EliteRaceFab is a drop-ship operation located around 35 miles from where I live. They don't have any stock. I could never buy any RedLine directly from their location. If you guys want to renew your RedLine stock, I'd recommend waiting until they put out their reformulated oil. The thing that put me off about RedLine was the poor cold flow performance of 5W-30 (at 57F outside temperature, the oil on the dipstick felt like honey on my fingers), and the fact that David Granquest from RedLine confirmed via email that they don't perform any engine sequence testing whatsoever as they get the additive packages preformulated from their additive supplier. For anyone looking for an alternative to RedLine Oil for their HEMI, I recommend full-SAPS 5W-30 and 0W-40 oils and PP/Quaker State Euro 5W-40 (amazing oil).

Again, Happy New Year!!!

[Edit]
I'm not trying to put anyone off RedLine Oil. If you have had success with it, then keep using it. Heck, I might even try it again once the reformulated version becomes available. I'm just sharing what little information I have, that's all.