Toyo MT's in the snow and ice?

Down the Tubes · Jan 17, 2022

I have Toyo MT 35x12.5 R17 (with light siping from Les Schwab) on my 2018 Power Wagon.
Tires are inflated to 45psi currently.
I haven't really driven this truck in the snow and wanted to see what it would do.
Everything here is either icy or slushy right now.

I took it to a friend's house yesterday. He lives a few miles down a dirt road.
The road is very icy. The southern facing parts of the road are slushy and icy.
The PW was terrible.
I had a hard time keeping the truck straight.
The tires wanted to follow the ruts in the road and would not really respond well when I tried to get out of them.
I slid into a drainage ditch on a straight portion of my friend's driveway. I was able to power out of it, but the truck just didn't really want to go straight on the driveway.

Do any of you guys have Toyo MT's on your truck, and do you have these problems?
Due to the current supply issues......these were the best tires that I could find within my area.
My truck had a Carli BackCountry suspension kit installed last year.
I got it aligned when the shop installed the Carli.
It seems to do really well on the road, but not very well at all in the ice and snow.

On a side note, I have a stock 2022 Rebel that is incredible on ice and snow!
I got the Rebel for a daily driver. I plan on doing a lot of driving this summer and wanted something a little better on mileage than the PW.
I really want to keep the PW for a hunting and camping vehicle, but I was a little disappointed with it yesterday.

Grand Mesa · Jan 17, 2022

Video link deleted. Copyright Infringement.

Down the Tubes · Jan 17, 2022

Thanks! That's exactly the opinion that I got yesterday.....Wish I had seen this video a couple of months ago!
I would have driven somewhere and gotten better tires for my needs.

62Blazer · Jan 17, 2022

Did you drive the Rebel down the exact same roads under the same conditions to see how it compared? This is just one of those things that is very subjective. To be honest, based on the description of the road conditions the behavior of the truck doesn't seem unusual to me, but again this is a very subjective situation. In general the more aggressive mud tires do not do as well on ice and slick conditions, plus the PW is a heavier truck.

Grand Mesa · Jan 17, 2022

Deleted.

Down the Tubes · Jan 17, 2022

62Blazer said:
Did you drive the Rebel down the exact same roads under the same conditions to see how it compared? This is just one of those things that is very subjective. To be honest, based on the description of the road conditions the behavior of the truck doesn't seem unusual to me, but again this is a very subjective situation. In general the more aggressive mud tires do not do as well on ice and slick conditions, plus the PW is a heavier truck.

Yep.
The Rebel just handles so much better with the stock Duratracks.
The Rebel's tires are 33's and a little bit more skinny. That probably helps as well.....

Grand Mesa · Jan 17, 2022

Deleted.

Dean2 · Jan 31, 2022

It isn't the truck that is the issue. The Duratracs handle MUCH better on ice, snow, slush and deep mud than the Toyos do. They are not a true winter tire as they are a harder compound but the extra siping on them makes them grip better. Until you have driven different tires on the same truck, in various bad conditions, most people find it hard to believe just how big a difference tires make. The Firestone Transforce ATs that coem on the 2500s are terrible in the Mud and snow. Replaced them at 3000 miles with Duratracs. The dealer has 20 sets of take off tires for sale and far more in his warehouse. They really should let you specify tire make and design when you factory order because FCA's choices of tires is really poor.

I just took off the near new Pirrelli Scorpion all Seasons that came on the Grand Cherokee because they are absolute crap on packed snow or ice. Probably the worst All Season Tire for winter use I have ever run. This one is my wife's car and never goes off pavement so I put on Michelin X-Ice Snow for the winter and will put the Pirtellis back on for summer duty. All in however it means I spent an extra 3 grand on tires for brand new vehicles. At least I could get the tires that were my first choice.

Down the Tubes · Jan 31, 2022

Dean2 said:
It isn't the truck that is the issue. The Duratracs handle MUCH better on ice, snow, slush and deep mud than the Toyos do. They are not a true winter tire as they are a harder compound but the extra siping on them makes them grip better. Until you have driven different tires on the same truck, in various bad conditions, most people find it hard to believe just how big a difference tires make. The Firestone Transforce ATs that coem on the 2500s are terrible in the Mud and snow. Replaced them at 3000 miles with Duratracs. The dealer has 20 sets of take off tires for sale and far more in his warehouse. They really should let you specify tire make and design when you factory order because FCA's choices of tires is really poor.

I just took off the near new Pirrelli Scorpion all Seasons that came on the Grand Cherokee because they are absolute crap on packed snow or ice. Probably the worst All Season Tire for winter use I have ever run. This one is my wife's car and never goes off pavement so I put on Michelin X-Ice Snow for the winter and will put the Pirtellis back on for summer duty. All in however it means I spent an extra 3 grand on tires for brand new vehicles. At least I could get the tires that were my first choice.

Thanks,
I get that it's the tires, I was using the Rebel as a different example because I have one of each
I took the Power Wagon to pull my son out of the ice over the weekend
The Toyo MT's don't really even like pavement when it's only 10 degrees. The rubber is just too stiff when it's cold.
I'm really bummed that the guy at Les Schwab said that they are "Great" in the snow.....

I'm looking around for a set of 35x12.5x17 Duratracs in my area

I'm thinking that I will need to get rid of the MT's or just use them in the summer

Dean2 · Jan 31, 2022

I would go back to Les Schwab and get a refund. Here Fountain Tire has a 30 day satisfaction guarantee on tires, I presume your tire shops do too, especially when they are recommending the tire.

CheechDogg.0n37s · Jan 31, 2022

Any MT is going to struggle in the snow do to the size of the lugs and the space between them which allows the snow to get compacted in there and then you are basically trying to move a truck with ice tires lol ...

The toyo MTs are actually good in snow that hasn't compacted and basically turned into ice caps, they are horrible when trying to drive on "ice" but you can use them when it's just snowing ...

Plankton · Jan 31, 2022

I have a brand new set of Durtracs on my Rebel and it's a heck of a lot better in the snow than the Toyo's that were initially on it.

I also just put a set of Goodyear Assurance WeatherReadys on my daughters Civic. We're about to get 12"-16" this week too, so we should be good. No snow days for us.

Dean2 · Jan 31, 2022

CheechDogg.0n37s said:
Any MT is going to struggle in the snow do to the size of the lugs and the space between them which allows the snow to get compacted in there and then you are basically trying to move a truck with ice tires lol ...

The toyo MTs are actually good in snow that hasn't compacted and basically turned into ice caps, they are horrible when trying to drive on "ice" but you can use them when it's just snowing ...

This is only partially accurate. Duratracs are a fairly aggressive tread, and work good on ice and snow. Not as well as a pure winter tire but pretty good for a tire of it's type. It is FAR superior to the Toyo. Wide tread tires do not pack up with snow, even Mud Terrains don't do that. The issue with Mud Terrains is the lack of syping. Guys that run them year round have them syped at Kal Tire when they are brand new. Makes them WAY better on ice and does not affect logjevity. The issue with Toyo is WAY too hard a compound, not enough and not deep enough Sypes. That combination of factors is why they are so bad on packed snow and ice. The tires last well but are warm weather tires.

CheechDogg.0n37s · Jan 31, 2022

Dean2 said:
This is only partially accurate. Duratracs are a fairly aggressive tread, and work good on ice and snow. Not as well as a pure winter tire but pretty good for a tire of it's type. It is FAR superior to the Toyo. Wide tread tires do not pack up with snow, even Mud Terrains don't do that. The issue with Mud Terrains is the lack of syping. Guys that run them year round have them syped at Kal Tire when they are brand new. Makes them WAY better on ice and does not affect logjevity. The issue with Toyo is WAY too hard a compound, not enough and not deep enough Sypes. That combination of factors is why they are so bad on packed snow and ice. The tires last well but are warm weather tires.

I have seen trucks with "best" snow and ice tires that have tons of siping and they are horrible ...

No one around here complains about the Toyos in the snow because it is not the same snow/ice conditions as people in the north east where the roads actually turn into ice ... Toyo MTs do pack up the snow between the lugs but like I stated above here in Souther California the snow doesn't get packed and turns into basically ice belts like they do in the North East or even Mid States

Snow out here doesn't last too long on the roads to make MT tires lose traction as much as other places, when I worked for dish network and I spent 4 months in the East coast during winter, my work truck had MTs and I had to change them to some cheap snow/ice tire that Dish network bough for me lol ... That was the first year that I remember Toyo MTs came out and it was in 2008 I believe ... The whole tire was completely packed with snow that turned into actual ice caps around the tire,

Down the Tubes · Feb 1, 2022

Dean2 said:
This is only partially accurate. Duratracs are a fairly aggressive tread, and work good on ice and snow. Not as well as a pure winter tire but pretty good for a tire of it's type. It is FAR superior to the Toyo. Wide tread tires do not pack up with snow, even Mud Terrains don't do that. The issue with Mud Terrains is the lack of syping. Guys that run them year round have them syped at Kal Tire when they are brand new. Makes them WAY better on ice and does not affect logjevity. The issue with Toyo is WAY too hard a compound, not enough and not deep enough Sypes. That combination of factors is why they are so bad on packed snow and ice. The tires last well but are warm weather tires.

I had them lightly siped. The guy at Les Schwab said that if I sipe them too heavily, they tend to break chunks of tread off when off roading.

Unfortunately, I bought them several months ago. I traveled for work right after I got them and did not have a chance to try them out till a couple of weeks ago.....
I'll probably swap them for Duratracs and either use the MT's in the summer or just sell them.
The Power Wagon will be my work/camping truck and the Rebel will be my daily driver. The nearest larger stores are 30-70 miles away from us. At 10MPG (with the Toyos, hopefully 12-14MPG with Duratracs), the Power Wagon is painful to drive long distances right now.
Plus, I have the small gas tank, which doesn't help. I was reading that the newer PW's have a 31 gallon tank.

Thanks for all of the info guys!

retired · Feb 1, 2022

Down the Tubes said:
I have Toyo MT 35x12.5 R17 (with light siping from Les Schwab) on my 2018 Power Wagon.
Tires are inflated to 45psi currently.
I haven't really driven this truck in the snow and wanted to see what it would do.
Everything here is either icy or slushy right now.

I took it to a friend's house yesterday. He lives a few miles down a dirt road.
The road is very icy. The southern facing parts of the road are slushy and icy.
The PW was terrible.
I had a hard time keeping the truck straight.
The tires wanted to follow the ruts in the road and would not really respond well when I tried to get out of them.
I slid into a drainage ditch on a straight portion of my friend's driveway. I was able to power out of it, but the truck just didn't really want to go straight on the driveway.

Do any of you guys have Toyo MT's on your truck, and do you have these problems?
Due to the current supply issues......these were the best tires that I could find within my area.
My truck had a Carli BackCountry suspension kit installed last year.
I got it aligned when the shop installed the Carli.
It seems to do really well on the road, but not very well at all in the ice and snow.

On a side note, I have a stock 2022 Rebel that is incredible on ice and snow!
I got the Rebel for a daily driver. I plan on doing a lot of driving this summer and wanted something a little better on mileage than the PW.
I really want to keep the PW for a hunting and camping vehicle, but I was a little disappointed with it yesterday.

I would lower your psi. I run Toyo R/T in that size which is the same carcass as the MT and run around 37/30 psi no need to run higher psi unless you are loaded down. I use Toyo's own recommendations based on actual weight of my truck. If you have not weighed your truck it is worth the $12 to go to a Catscale and see what it weighs. At 35/30 I still have a nice bumper for adding extra weight. Living in Montana we are getting our fair share of snow and ice and they are doing great.

StackPath

Dean2 · Feb 1, 2022

retired said:
I would lower your psi. I run Toyo R/T in that size which is the same carcass as the MT and run around 37/30 psi no need to run higher psi unless you are loaded down. I use Toyo's own recommendations based on actual weight of my truck. If you have not weighed your truck it is worth the $12 to go to a Catscale and see what it weighs. At 35/30 I still have a nice bumper for adding extra weight. Living in Montana we are getting our fair share of snow and ice and they are doing great.

StackPath

View attachment 484534

Running the lowest pressures possible really does help ice traction but the PW is a 3/4 ton and my 2500 scales at 8200 pounds. For highway speeds I don't think I could get down to 35 pounds with the E rated Durateacs I am running.

retired · Feb 1, 2022

Dean2 said:
Running the lowest pressures possible really does help ice traction but the PW is a 3/4 ton and my 2500 scales at 8200 pounds. For highway speeds I don't think I could get down to 35 pounds with the E rated Durateacs I am running.

even when mine is loaded with gfc and weekend full of camping gear I am still only 8840lb and based on that I still only need 35psi front and rear and still have a cushion. ie 35psi gives me 4810 lb per axle. as you can see my rear tires only need to support 2110lbs apiece so according to Toyo 30psi is fine and 2310 apiece in front so 35psi is good.

retired · Feb 1, 2022

Dean2 said:
Running the lowest pressures possible really does help ice traction but the PW is a 3/4 ton and my 2500 scales at 8200 pounds. For highway speeds I don't think I could get down to 35 pounds with the E rated Durateacs I am running.

look at the load application table and see what you can safely run for your tire size based on your actual front and rear axle weights.

Dean2 · Feb 1, 2022

retired said:
look at the load application table and see what you can safely run for your tire size based on your actual front and rear axle weights.

I get how that works. How do you guys manage to run 40 psi without having the TPMS warning lamp and dinger going off all the time. Did you get the low limits reset on your TPMS

Toyo MT's in the snow and ice?

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