Change Spark Pugs at 70,000 Vs recommended 100,000 Miles

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Ram Night

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I plan to change the plugs in my 17 sport at 70k miles mainly because I only have 32K on it now. Only because I do not want to take a chance of 8 year old plugs getting stuck in the aluminum heads.
 

LumberJakl

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Lets just say these original stock plugs held up good, but they defiantly needed to be changed. 83,000 miles / 135,000 km on these.
Had no issues or missed fired

20210721_142941.jpg
 

HEMIMANN

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That plug looks like it ran rich fuel mixture. You running a tuner?

Also, the new plug isn't OEM. OEM has a narrow electrode with iridium tip.
 

Sherman Bird

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Sure glad they upgrade the waste spark system on 1st Gen III Hemis to normal direct spark! I had the waste spark on my 2012 with the 30,000 mile change interval with copper/nickel electrodes only. Wasn't too happy they were too cheap to put on enough coil to fire both with resistive coatings. Ah, well - all is well now with my factory dual iridium's (NGK for Mopar).

That plug looks like it ran rich fuel mixture. You running a tuner?

Also, the new plug isn't OEM. OEM has a narrow electrode with iridium tip.
Your visual perception has limited merit. This is why it is critical on today's EEC OBD2 systems to use scanners and oscilloscopes to perform diagnostics. Also, while the engine idles (hot) and runs at mid levels of throttle, the ECM can and will cover for many problems. Use of a scope along with knowledge of waveform interpretation, coupled with WOT and decel assessments of those wave patterns can and will tell one with dead-on accuracy what's wrong. I recently had a 2002 Chevy pickup with the 6.0L "U" engine with individual coils on each cylinder. It kept setting P0300 "random misfire" DTC's. It also had ambulatory specific cylinder misfires (P0306. P0308. and a couple of others). Pulling out the plugs revealed a .090 air gap! Nearly double spec. Replaced the plugs and got smooth performance...... for a while... Then, the engine started running worse than it had. Broke out the 8 channel scope, and Voila! The front O2 sensors showed voltage bleed over from the heaters to the signal return to the computer, and #6 coil had excessive primary current draw. A new pair of AC Delco front sensors and #6 coil completed the repair.

This is merely one example of why it is futile to make conclusions without deep diagnostics. The parts cannon will drain a person's wallet very quickly with shotgun tactics. Many times, I'll get a vehicle here in my shop where the underhood is decorated with many shiny new parts totaling many dollars, only for the frustrated and nearly broke owner to seek professional help, or tow the car out of an incompetent shop's bay to get an accurate and pin point diagnosis.
 

HEMIMANN

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Your visual perception has limited merit. This is why it is critical on today's EEC OBD2 systems to use scanners and oscilloscopes to perform diagnostics. Also, while the engine idles (hot) and runs at mid levels of throttle, the ECM can and will cover for many problems. Use of a scope along with knowledge of waveform interpretation, coupled with WOT and decel assessments of those wave patterns can and will tell one with dead-on accuracy what's wrong. I recently had a 2002 Chevy pickup with the 6.0L "U" engine with individual coils on each cylinder. It kept setting P0300 "random misfire" DTC's. It also had ambulatory specific cylinder misfires (P0306. P0308. and a couple of others). Pulling out the plugs revealed a .090 air gap! Nearly double spec. Replaced the plugs and got smooth performance...... for a while... Then, the engine started running worse than it had. Broke out the 8 channel scope, and Voila! The front O2 sensors showed voltage bleed over from the heaters to the signal return to the computer, and #6 coil had excessive primary current draw. A new pair of AC Delco front sensors and #6 coil completed the repair.

This is merely one example of why it is futile to make conclusions without deep diagnostics. The parts cannon will drain a person's wallet very quickly with shotgun tactics. Many times, I'll get a vehicle here in my shop where the underhood is decorated with many shiny new parts totaling many dollars, only for the frustrated and nearly broke owner to seek professional help, or tow the car out of an incompetent shop's bay to get an accurate and pin point diagnosis.

I still have Dad's Champion Spark Plug condition identifier on my shop bench wall - it identifies generalized conditions visually. Not all of us have access to fancy analyzers in our shops. If engine conditions warrant, I'll make the extra effort to get a condition assessed. But merely changing plugs I generally won't.
 
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Zoe Saldana

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Are the new ones the correct plug? They look like copper core and you might need the iridium type.
Lets just say these original stock plugs held up good, but they defiantly needed to be changed. 83,000 miles / 135,000 km on these.
Had no issues or missed fired

View attachment 482167
 

LumberJakl

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That plug looks like it ran rich fuel mixture. You running a tuner?

Also, the new plug isn't OEM. OEM has a narrow electrode with iridium tip.

Are the new ones the correct plug? They look like copper core and you might need the iridium type.

You know what, after you mentioned that you may be right. Weird thing is, I've never had the plugs changed since I bought the truck brand new, and thought my NGK 92174 was the OEM replacement. I'll see how they turn out, 10,000km on them so far and no issues
 
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Zoe Saldana

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You know what, after you mentioned that you may be right. Weird thing is, I've never had the plugs changed since I bought the truck brand new, and thought my NGK 92174 was the OEM replacement. I'll see how they turn out, 10,000km on them so far and no issues
Guess - copper core good for up to 30K miles
 

HEMIMANN

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Guess - copper core good for up to 30K miles

fyi - all spark plugs are copper core electrodes. The difference lies in what is used for the ablative coating. The 30,000 mile plugs are only coated in nickel, the legacy coating. Then came platinum, then iridium, and now NGK is pushing ruthenium. Practical application, as well as increasing cost for using these precious, rare elements, is platinum 50k miles, iridium 100k miles, ruthenium >100k miles (unknown as of yet - they're too new).
 

Sherman Bird

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fyi - all spark plugs are copper core electrodes. The difference lies in what is used for the ablative coating. The 30,000 mile plugs are only coated in nickel, the legacy coating. Then came platinum, then iridium, and now NGK is pushing ruthenium. Practical application, as well as increasing cost for using these precious, rare elements, is platinum 50k miles, iridium 100k miles, ruthenium >100k miles (unknown as of yet - they're too new).
I like the plugs coated in unobtanium! ;)
 

HEMIMANN

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Your visual perception has limited merit. This is why it is critical on today's EEC OBD2 systems to use scanners and oscilloscopes to perform diagnostics. Also, while the engine idles (hot) and runs at mid levels of throttle, the ECM can and will cover for many problems. Use of a scope along with knowledge of waveform interpretation, coupled with WOT and decel assessments of those wave patterns can and will tell one with dead-on accuracy what's wrong. I recently had a 2002 Chevy pickup with the 6.0L "U" engine with individual coils on each cylinder. It kept setting P0300 "random misfire" DTC's. It also had ambulatory specific cylinder misfires (P0306. P0308. and a couple of others). Pulling out the plugs revealed a .090 air gap! Nearly double spec. Replaced the plugs and got smooth performance...... for a while... Then, the engine started running worse than it had. Broke out the 8 channel scope, and Voila! The front O2 sensors showed voltage bleed over from the heaters to the signal return to the computer, and #6 coil had excessive primary current draw. A new pair of AC Delco front sensors and #6 coil completed the repair.

This is merely one example of why it is futile to make conclusions without deep diagnostics. The parts cannon will drain a person's wallet very quickly with shotgun tactics. Many times, I'll get a vehicle here in my shop where the underhood is decorated with many shiny new parts totaling many dollars, only for the frustrated and nearly broke owner to seek professional help, or tow the car out of an incompetent shop's bay to get an accurate and pin point diagnosis.

@Sherman Bird - do you have a recommended scanner or DTC scan tool for homeowners? Good enough to get a baseline diagnostic to estimate a problem? i.e. - good enough to assess whether to take to a shop with a multi-thousand dollar pro tool and dedicated OEM software?

I need to get with the 21st century (OBD II in 1996, I believe). All my vehicles are OBDII, 4 of them. I doubt there is a single tool that works the same with these for different OEM's - Ram, Mazda, Chevy, Ford.
 

Sherman Bird

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@Sherman Bird - do you have a recommended scanner or DTC scan tool for homeowners? Good enough to get a baseline diagnostic to estimate a problem? i.e. - good enough to assess whether to take to a shop with a multi-thousand dollar pro tool and dedicated OEM software?

I need to get with the 21st century (OBD II in 1996, I believe). All my vehicles are OBDII, 4 of them. I doubt there is a single tool that works the same with these for different OEM's - Ram, Mazda, Chevy, Ford.
Autel comes to mind. I'm partial to the MaxiSys MS906BT. This scanner is about 1200 or so most places, and is capable of coding. It also has fantastic Ford interaction.
 

HEMIMANN

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Autel comes to mind. I'm partial to the MaxiSys MS906BT. This scanner is about 1200 or so most places, and is capable of coding. It also has fantastic Ford interaction.
They have a full series of tools, I can research one less professional.
What do you think of Innova? A number of Auto outlets push that line.
 

Dodge trucker

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they're cheap enough, (relatively) and it isn't that hard to do. IF there is ANY question, I go ahead and change them. ALL of them. Though I WILL NOT pay $756, EVER, for a single spark plug change/ unless they come attached to brand new heads. NOBODY touches my truck but me. I paid about 10% of that amount, to buy all 16 plugs.

so, you have to screw 16 plugs in on one truck, vs only 8/// BIG DEAL!!! BOOO HOOO
Fords had the 8 spark plug 4 banger, way back in 1999. Unless you are somehow injured and/or handicapped, just do them yourself. I don't care what they say about "shouldn't be a problem" waiting the other 30k miles til they are "due" I would rather not chance it. It will cost you more in the long run if the threads are galled, or pull out with the plugs because you decided to wait.

I haven't gotten around to it yet (I have only had my truck 2 weeks) but for only around $300 I got plugs, wires, coil boots, a new belt tensioner a new belt, 4 oil filters, an air filter a cabin filter and I think a couple of other maintenance parts for it from Rock Auto delivered the other day. and I got the "good stuff". not the cheaper brands.
 

Sherman Bird

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they're cheap enough, (relatively) and it isn't that hard to do. IF there is ANY question, I go ahead and change them. ALL of them. Though I WILL NOT pay $756, EVER, for a single spark plug change/ unless they come attached to brand new heads. NOBODY touches my truck but me. I paid about 10% of that amount, to buy all 16 plugs.

so, you have to screw 16 plugs in on one truck, vs only 8/// BIG DEAL!!! BOOO HOOO
Fords had the 8 spark plug 4 banger, way back in 1999. Unless you are somehow injured and/or handicapped, just do them yourself. I don't care what they say about "shouldn't be a problem" waiting the other 30k miles til they are "due" I would rather not chance it. It will cost you more in the long run if the threads are galled, or pull out with the plugs because you decided to wait.

I haven't gotten around to it yet (I have only had my truck 2 weeks) but for only around $300 I got plugs, wires, coil boots, a new belt tensioner a new belt, 4 oil filters, an air filter a cabin filter and I think a couple of other maintenance parts for it from Rock Auto delivered the other day. and I got the "good stuff". not the cheaper brands.
There is a method to replacing spark plug on the modern truck engines without ever pulling threads or, like the 5.4L fords, breaking them. It requires running a powerful flush through the injectors (BG 201), using a special tool, and then soaking the tops of the plugs overnight with PB Blaster. Since I learned this method over 10 years ago, I never have a broken plug or stripped threads. It requires backing the plugs out about 1/16 to 1/8 turn and soaking them over night with the penetrant AFTER running the flush through the injectors.

Although I still have the special tools for removing the broken plugs, I haven't had to use them even once since learning this method.
 

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I've extracted more busted 5.4 plugs than I care to try and remember. I've heard about the fuel injector flush deal possibly helping to free them. But never had access to it. My experience with those pieces of **** reinforces my belief in early maintenance. The only way I've been able to ensure success on a plug Change on a 5.4 is to change em earlier than the 100k mark especially if it is a low usage vehicle that takes longer than normal to get to that mileage. Then be sure to anti seize the new ones on install. Seems if I get them by ~60-65k it's a safe bet they'll come out intact.
 

Sherman Bird

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I've extracted more busted 5.4 plugs than I care to try and remember. I've heard about the fuel injector flush deal possibly helping to free them. But never had access to it. My experience with those pieces of **** reinforces my belief in early maintenance. The only way I've been able to ensure success on a plug Change on a 5.4 is to change em earlier than the 100k mark especially if it is a low usage vehicle that takes longer than normal to get to that mileage. Then be sure to anti seize the new ones on install. Seems if I get them by ~60-65k it's a safe bet they'll come out intact.
As a stand alone cure, no, the injector flush doesn't do the trick.... I've tried that and had it fail. Further research revealed that the injector flush, using a VERY potent chemical (My stuff will remove paint from the fender if it drips onto it), will effectively remove carbon from the nose and lead threads of the plug/head mating area. That is merely step ONE. The action of cranking the plugs back off the seat 1/16 to 1/8 turn allows PB blaster to soak from the top overnight. These TWO steps done in combination, along with proper turning procedure have worked 100% of the time in the past 10 years for me since I began doing it that way.

I tried to beat the clock on 2 Ford Expeditions by replacing the plugs at 80K miles prior to using the double chemical process. Both resulted in broken off plugs (3 on one vehicle, and one on the other.)
 
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