Why Buy New? 2012 1500 6.4l install

Gone said:

very cool brother. it would be nice to dyno with the 5.7 intake then dyno again with 6.4 i have a feeling the 5.7 intake makes more power down low.

Click to expand...

Usually it's the other way around,the 6.4 intake out torques the 5.7 intake below 3500.Longer runners on the 6.4 intake translates to more torque

Wild one said:

Usually it's the other way around,the 6.4 intake out torques the 5.7 intake below 3500.Longer runners on the 6.4 intake translates to more torque

Click to expand...

oooppps yes your right he has a 6.4 its going to breath much easier..

New block and did you put in a new alternator and new air conditioner and new transmission and new brake rotors and pads and calipers and a new radiator and fan and new front end steering linkage?

Check the points of failure and the engine in the post lead era is not the problem but all the rest of the truck including its electrical system and emissions controls and suspension parts and transmission.

Elkman said:

New block and did you put in a new alternator and new air conditioner and new transmission and new brake rotors and pads and calipers and a new radiator and fan and new front end steering linkage?

Check the points of failure and the engine in the post lead era is not the problem but all the rest of the truck including its electrical system and emissions controls and suspension parts and transmission.

Click to expand...

All good points.

I did a complete front end in the truck in the fall, and brakes are a year old. The transmission is next for a swap, but I decided to reuse the starter and alternator, as I might as well "use them up". I did an e-fan conversion, but the steering rack is original.

Honestly, I've owned new vehicles as well. And I've never had one that didn't need driveline services, brakes, and even expensive repairs. I've done transmissions and diffs in trucks that are "just off warranty, so sorry". All while payments were rolling out every month...

At the end of the day, with no labour costs, this swap is about a years worth of payments in a new truck. Did I make the right decision? I'm about to find out I guess.

I know you did your research, but if it were me while I had this on a stand, I would of definitely put a better intake, injectors in and long tubes on.
I LOVE my 16 Limited and reading this gave me the excitement of doing this on my own if my engine goes to the engine pasture one day.

Did you make the right decision? Hm, are you happy with it? If yes; right decision.

Yeah, I hear it all the time too - I took mine in to get connected to the "big machine" to tell me which sensor was bad so I could to the replacement. They tried to tell me I needed brakes and front bearings and that along with the sensor would be around $800-$900. I refused and he made a comment about it being an '09 so I probably didn't want to put too much into it.

No, I just didn't need for you to put too much into it. About $350 in parts, and I've got Power Stop rotors and now I can't recall the brake pads, but they were recommended by others here. The sensor (front wheel ABS) was $15 off Rock Auto. Truck runs and stops great.

I'm with you, I don't make payments so even with gas what it is now it's still cheaper to drive this one than get something else. If the engine fell out tomorrow, I'd buy a reman and put it in myself and keep going. Though I'd probably put in a rebuilt trans at the same time while I was at it.

Well, I should get back at it, the write up that is.

Just to rewind a bit, there was a lot of room getting the original engine out and the new long black in. A couple of things, though. I unbolted the engine mounts from the block, vs from the frame, and it worked well enough. I did end up loosening the passenger side to get it past the pan flange on the way back in, but that might have been just a small alignment thing.

I installed the long bock just with the oil pan and valve cover gaskets. I was adding long tube headers, and decided to do them in the vehicle. That was easy enough, but took longer than expected, more on that later.

One thing to note, the main harness ground strap bolt is the exact same size as the engine mount to block bolts. Want to ask how I know? that was really the only mistake I made on the swap, but it did cause some excitement with my helper pumping up the hoist as i wiggled and pried, with the unseen remaining mount bolt silently mocking me.

ajrj said:

It's obviously been done many times, but not by me. I honestly waffled on buying a new truck , vs repairing this one. Prices of new trucks like my 2012 sport push the mid $80's here in Canada, with leather etc. I've had this truck for 3 years and 150,000 km, long enough to know it well, and trust it. It was 3M wrapped from new, and also undercoated, so it has almost no rust. I figured why not try something that keeps me happy for another 250,000 km?

Finding a good deal on a brand new Mopar long block 6.4l sealed the deal, and I started assembling parts for the swap. I did a lot of research on what I thought might be needed, and had most things ready for when my truck came out of the body shop (I had some hail fixed from a big storm here this summer).

View attachment 489957

This was probably about half the parts I ended up using, give or take.

TBC...

Click to expand...

A few questions:

Will you be using the intake manifold from the 5.7?

How do you get the 6.4 to play with the electronics in a 1500? Are you using the 1500 PCM?

When getting your state inspection, do they plug into the OBD port and check for emissions?

How are you handling the transmission issue? Do you intend to use a 68RFE or a newer 8HP series? How does that affect the PCM/TCM issues?

Like others, can't wait to see how this all works out for you. Best of luck.

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33 gallon fuel tank, factory dual exhaust, 18” wheels. Build date: 03 June 2018. Now at: 067770 miles.

Dusty said:

A few questions:

Will you be using the intake manifold from the 5.7?

How do you get the 6.4 to play with the electronics in a 1500? Are you using the 1500 PCM?

When getting your state inspection, do they plug into the OBD port and check for emissions?

How are you handling the transmission issue? Do you intend to use a 68RFE or a newer 8HP series? How does that affect the PCM/TCM issues?

Like others, can't wait to see how this all works out for you. Best of luck.

Regards,
Dusty

Click to expand...

I am using the 5.7l intake manifold and injectors, although it is tuned for the 6.4l engine. My truck is a 2012 so it is the older CAN bus ECM, but HP tuners was able to help make it run properly.

No State (or Provincial) testing here thankfully. The motors are so similar, I bet if I had the stock y- pipe on you could pass. Visually there are no differences, since I used the 5.7 timing cover.

My 1500 has the 65RFE, and I have already decided I will not spend a dollar on it. I replaced the solenoid pack about 100,000 km ago, and did a filter and fluid swap at that time. If anything goes haywire with it, I will swap in an 8 speed using the Sound German Auto harness. Actually, even if it doesn't break, I will swap it. But hopefully in the fall.

I'm behind a bit on the posts, but the truck is almost completely done.

Well for some reason after spending everything I did on the swap, I struggled to pay the extra $400 in shipping (!) for the headers I wanted.

Yes I bought the E-bay long tube stainless headers, with the two bolt flange. The shipping was cheap, but took 3 weeks. When I saw them I was impressed honestly with the build quality. Although there was minor cosmetic shipping damage on them, I was wrapping the first portion up to the collector anyways.

I wrapped them, and then had all the joys of installing them in the truck. Actually, it wasn't too bad. I found the drivers side easier than the passenger, but I had installed my engine without the dipstick tube installed in the block. Yes, you have a lot of work to do to get the dipstick bolt out of the block, in order to pull it to install the headers.

I cut the tab off my new dipstick and once the header was installed, put it in the block. This was actually quite tricky. Another set of hands would sure help, but getting it into the block required a long prybar to nudge it to it's location. Like anything now that I struggled with it, I could probably do it in 10 minutes. The motor mount completely hides the block though, and the dipstick had to be pre-bent to it's new alignment.

I zip tied the tube to the AC line, and it was time to finish the passenger side.

The passenger side was much easier to get the header into position, but I really came to regret buying the Stage 8 bolts. I don't like the way they fit in the socket, and honestly a regular flanged bolt in the right size is more than enough for the 20 ftlbs these things need. At the end of the day, I didn't even install the locking tabs, as I was worried they might rattle.

Underneath was a different story though. I had to buy a y-pipe that was from another supplier, and of course it required some cutting to fit. On closer inspection the drivers side is tight against the 4 wd front diff brace, and I debate cutting it to provide some clearance. Also the collector is pointed straight at the frame rail. The Y pipe clamping flange is way to close. Frustrating as the passenger side was a perfect fit.


Overall, after putting 1000 km on it I will likely leave it as is, especially for the time being. The rest of the exhaust from the Y-pipe back is going to need some work first. After the final tuning it is clear that the 3" inlet factory muffler, while it sounds great with the catless Y-pipe, is too small and causing HP loss on the top end.

There's been a few questions about the intake manifold. I did reuse the stock 5.7l, and it seems to perform fine. One tip for anyone that is pulling their intake manifold, for any reason is to clean, clean, clean the "valley" between where the injectors sit, and the cylinder head. If you don't, I guarantee you will drop dirt/junk down into your cylinder heads. If the valve is open on that cylinder, you know what happens next. I would personally spray with water carefully avoiding the electrical connectors, and them blow out with compressed air. Do this a couple of times till you think it's clean, then do it one more time with brake clean and compressed air.

The torque values for the engine are all readily available, and honestly only two things REALLY need attention in my opinion: The oil pan and the intake manifold. The oil pan should get some form a gasket right where the timing cover seal sits on it. I made sure there was some on the block side as well.

The intake manifold required some google search engine skills to find, apparently it's top secret (kidding). Bottom line, I torqued in three stages to 98 inch/lbs. The bolts also need sealant if you are reusing. I used Permatex thread sealant, in the big white tube. I found one set of instructions that called for 108 inch/lbs, but since I was using liquid sealant (acting as lube) I went with the lower number. As with the oil pan, or anything that's rectangular and critical, start in the center and spiral out to the ends with your torque sequence.

Photos for clarity, but ignore the dust. The truck was already driving at this point , and I had been it a dustbowl at work.



You could call this "The Valley of Instant Regret" if you don't clean it well, back to the firewall on both sides.

Looking good dude !

ajrj said:

There's been a few questions about the intake manifold. I did reuse the stock 5.7l, and it seems to perform fine. One tip for anyone that is pulling their intake manifold, for any reason is to clean, clean, clean the "valley" between where the injectors sit, and the cylinder head. If you don't, I guarantee you will drop dirt/junk down into your cylinder heads. If the valve is open on that cylinder, you know what happens next. I would personally spray with water carefully avoiding the electrical connectors, and them blow out with compressed air. Do this a couple of times till you think it's clean, then do it one more time with brake clean and compressed air.

The torque values for the engine are all readily available, and honestly only two things REALLY need attention in my opinion: The oil pan and the intake manifold. The oil pan should get some form a gasket right where the timing cover seal sits on it. I made sure there was some on the block side as well.

The intake manifold required some google search engine skills to find, apparently it's top secret (kidding). Bottom line, I torqued in three stages to 98 inch/lbs. The bolts also need sealant if you are reusing. I used Permatex thread sealant, in the big white tube. I found one set of instructions that called for 108 inch/lbs, but since I was using liquid sealant (acting as lube) I went with the lower number. As with the oil pan, or anything that's rectangular and critical, start in the center and spiral out to the ends with your torque sequence.

Photos for clarity, but ignore the dust. The truck was already driving at this point , and I had been it a dustbowl at work.
View attachment 490714


You could call this "The Valley of Instant Regret" if you don't clean it well, back to the firewall on both sides.

View attachment 490715

Click to expand...

Geoff the local ALX meet is on tonight in Airdrie,you should wander over for a bit.Airdrie Crappy Tire /Marks /Timmies parking lot,look for the Dodges,they won't be hard to miss,lol
Rick

Valley of instant regret lol
I had some junk from there fall thru an open valve, so I know exactly what you mean

excellent write up - thank you!!!!

Well there really isn't a whole lot more to get to.

With the exhaust headers and catless Y pipe tied into the factory muffler and dual exhaust outlet, it was time for the start up. I did two things starting up the new motor, to hopefully help it survive. I prefilled the oil filter prior to install was one, and I used the flooded engine feature I read about, which worked perfectly.

If you're not familiar, this is when you hold the throttle wide open, and initiate a start cycle (cranking); The computer will not let the engine start. It will crank for ~20-30 seconds then stop. I did this twice in order to prime the system, and what the hell, turned the key a third time. It fired up after about 1.5 rotations and It was a happy moment!

I will say one thing I see an awful lot is people are happy to spend money on parts, but they don't get the tuning. I get it, tuning is complicated and somewhat expensive. But IMO if you modify your vehicle, you absolutely should get it tuned. If you don't, you may not be seeing all (or any) of your benefits. This should be dyno (WOT) and road tuning. A good tuner will be worth it to get the most out of your vehicle, but also avoid potential for damage to your engine.

I can't say enough good things about Player 3 Performance. I was very happy with the remote tuning to get it running well, which honestly was a breeze. After a 1,200km break in, I headed North to hit up Silver Maple Numerics, and let Player 3 dial it in. This is a grass roots set up run by real car enthusiasts, and it was a great all round experience.

The tuning went well, but the exhaust on the truck is holding back the top end HP a bit, so I am working on changing that out in the next coming months. The truck has a much wider and much more powerful torque curve that the stock 5.7l, although for sure the tuning and long tubes help.




We did three more runs, but this was the only picture I took of the screen. Tuning it off the dyno on the street helped ensure it was all working well.

Overall, I'm very happy with the whole process.

Don't come around here much, but here is a ~100,000km follow up. There have been no real issues with the motor or tuning so far. The original trans is holding up fine, although I only tow limited amounts (<5000km) and am careful about full throttle kick downs and locking out the OD gears.

A couple items:
- The long tube E-bay headers have held up fine, although keeping the ball and sockets tight is a monthly occurrence. A leaky socket burned out an O2 Sensor.
- I poorly routed the trans shift cable and it burnt on the headers, leaving me in an awkward spot. Replacement was super simple, and I routed it much better.
- My upper rad hose just sprung a leak, due to rubbing on my E-Fan shroud. Thankfully the new hose isn't a 10 day wait like the covid supplied old one. I will trim the new one to length so it doesn't rub.

I originally had plans to supercharge this engine, but they have waned (ha ha). This thing is a torque monster, and I love the feel of it driving around. As my daily it gets similar mileage to the old 5.7l, and it makes significantly more power in the rev ranges I find myself in around town and on the highway. It also is the fist time I've ever felt over-geared with the 3.92s on the truck. It leaps up to the next increment on the cruise + button, almost like my modded 6.7l diesel did. This combo would be a dream with an 8 speed. I toyed with the idea of doing the SGA 8 Speed swap, but as the km pile on this rig, I will likely just do the same to a G5 once the right opportunity arises.

Peace.

ajrj said:

Don't come around here much, but here is a ~100,000km follow up. There have been no real issues with the motor or tuning so far. The original trans is holding up fine, although I only tow limited amounts (<5000km) and am careful about full throttle kick downs and locking out the OD gears.

A couple items:
- The long tube E-bay headers have held up fine, although keeping the ball and sockets tight is a monthly occurrence. A leaky socket burned out an O2 Sensor.
- I poorly routed the trans shift cable and it burnt on the headers, leaving me in an awkward spot. Replacement was super simple, and I routed it much better.
- My upper rad hose just sprung a leak, due to rubbing on my E-Fan shroud. Thankfully the new hose isn't a 10 day wait like the covid supplied old one. I will trim the new one to length so it doesn't rub.

I originally had plans to supercharge this engine, but they have waned (ha ha). This thing is a torque monster, and I love the feel of it driving around. As my daily it gets similar mileage to the old 5.7l, and it makes significantly more power in the rev ranges I find myself in around town and on the highway. It also is the fist time I've ever felt over-geared with the 3.92s on the truck. It leaps up to the next increment on the cruise + button, almost like my modded 6.7l diesel did. This combo would be a dream with an 8 speed. I toyed with the idea of doing the SGA 8 Speed swap, but as the km pile on this rig, I will likely just do the same to a G5 once the right opportunity arises.

Peace.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the follow up Geoff.Damn you're miling that thing out in a hurry,lol.
Rick

Wild one said:

Thanks for the follow up Geoff.Damn you're miling that thing out in a hurry,lol.
Rick

Click to expand...

Yep, lots of driving. I could see myself keeping this block and updating the cam and rotating assembly for fitment in the next truck. I hope to get another couple years out of it. By then, a G5 with a flat cam should be available lol.

Great work! did you end up doing anything with the exhaust?