Lemon law numbers

Dinky said:

your trying to call out bad points on ram when ALL vehicles at this point have issues. Bad material quality, material shortages, no labor force, and high fuel cost. you cant even get a decent hamburger anymore, it sucks
and we pay a lot of money for stuff but it will stay this way till the whole system is broke and than rebuilt before it gets better.

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Nope. Not all vehicles for all manufacturers have problems. At some point, either owners get their stuff fixed or they buy from another vendor. Lemon laws are written to make manufacturers fix their problems, not force us to make excuses for them.

RamDutyl said:

Nope. Not all vehicles for all manufacturers have problems. At some point, either owners get their stuff fixed or they buy from another vendor. Lemon laws are written to make manufacturers fix their problems, not force us to make excuses for them.

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Yes the lemon law was set because enough manufactures were ignoring a lot of issues. ALL manufactures have defects in their vehicles as this world is not perfect.
i am not protecting anyone but ALL manufactures will issue recalls and fix issues, its just the industry standard we live in today. if you take the time you can look and
see all the recalls per manufacture and the amount of complaints they have had. this world is not perfect and there is a lot of people that are keyboard warriors
when it comes to filing a complaint. There is a reason i do not have phone numbers on any of my work trucks as people call just to complain about nothing.

I see a lot of complaints on here some I wonder about. I worked for a GM dealership in the 80's and early 90's and saw a lot of people complain about the vehicle's nature of the beast a lot of it was not really a problem. I did see some common problems through the car lines but it sure didn't mean that all of the cars had that problem. I am on my second the first was a Ram 2015 v6 30k 0 problems, traded it for a 2018 v8 for more towing capacity and it now has 60k without any problems what so ever at all. I have a 2007 Dodge Grand Caravan with 290k with just regular maintenance and some minor parts Radiator, A/C condenser, alternator, belt and oh I have had to replace the brakes and tires a couple of times! JD Power awards from a tech's point of view really didn't pay much attention to. I always read Edmonds owner reviews usually on older models to get an idea of what to expect. I have seen several of these Ram Trucks with close to 400k still running well all original engine and trans. The most important thing is to keep your maintenance done regularly and when something gives a problem get it fixed.

You can get a lemon vehicle from any brand at any time.
The real thing to keep in mind is if you get a lemon, it is NOT the responsibility of the dealership it was purchased from. They REALLY don't care. When they decide they can't make any warranty money trying to fix it, they are done. A LEMON claim is between you and the manufacturer. So if you meet the criteria (varies from state to state), get a lawyer that handles lemon law cases.

RamDutyl said:

Paco, where did you get your definition for investment? Any major capital outlay will be an investment.

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I view an investment as something that hopefully will appreciate in value by design.
A vehicle is more of an asset that most always depreciates unless a special run

Just got off the phone with customer service. I get an expedited Case number. Technical Star support is now involved. If your new vehicle has issues, now that the Pandemic has died down a little bit, get them fixed.

What issues are you having, I was lucky, my 2016 was trouble free new and really has been overall.
I did have a caliper seize, but that seems to happen pretty often for my vehicles, between sitting for weeks on end and the high humidity doesn't help either.

pacofortacos said:

I view an investment as something that hopefully will appreciate in value by design.
A vehicle is more of an asset that most always depreciates unless a special run

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Not in todays market, which I admit is an anomaly and most likely a bubble. I have been offered $18K more than I paid for my truck 2 years ago by a local Ram dealer. Trade or cash.

jejb said:

Not in todays market, which I admit is an anomaly and most likely a bubble. I have been offered $18K more than I paid for my truck 2 years ago by a local Ram dealer. Trade or cash.

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True not always, wish I had a few extra vehicles laying around.

Not bad, my 16 is still under what I paid for it.
Probably a good bit more demand for your model

1 800 LEMONLAW

When I worked for a dealer, I would look at the list of vehicles the manufacturer was selling. Lease returns, company, lemon laws etc. Some were valid lemon laws issued. Some were really absurd like battery issues, radio concerns, noise and wind issues, warped rotors and even tpms issues. Seems like if you complain hard enough, manufacturer will buy it back. Jmo

RamDutyl said:

Paco, where did you get your definition for investment? Any major capital outlay will be an investment.

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Investment is purchasing something that will create additional wealth as it is used. Buying a pizza oven for a restaurant is an investment, you hope that the use of the oven will create profit for the business. Speculating is purchasing something with the hope the thing will rise in value with the passage of time. A gold bar, for example. Buying a personal use car is just an expenditure.

Truck of the year has nothing to do with longevity. Most recalls are for relatively minor things that affect relatively few units. This bolt could rust prematurely on these months of production, this shift point needs remapped for better drivability sort of things. Any forum will have people talking more about their problems than things going well because that's what "news" is, something that's unusual. Nobody says "my truck runs fine today" any more than people say "I didn't get injured today" routinely. My 2012 has had one repair, a coil pack, and been completely trouble free otherwise. The *only* vehicle I've ever had to lemon out was a Jeep Grand Cherokee. '07 IIRC.

Fifty said:

When I worked for a dealer, I would look at the list of vehicles the manufacturer was selling. Lease returns, company, lemon laws etc. Some were valid lemon laws issued. Some were really absurd like battery issues, radio concerns, noise and wind issues, warped rotors and even tpms issues. Seems like if you complain hard enough, manufacturer will buy it back. Jmo

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I have disagree with you about those issues being absurd. When I buy a new vehicle of any kind, it better not have battery or radio issues. It better not have wind noise, warped rotors, or even TPMS issues. These are mostly first world problems, but it doesn't make them any less of an issue. Now, if I'm spending $20k on a used truck, I'd expect to have some issues like the ones you mentioned. And I'd be more willing to live with them since it's not a new truck. But if my $75k truck has any of those issues I'd be pursuing a lemon law return if they couldn't be fixed.

bluebeast1562 said:

Have owned mine since Black Friday 2019, only been in the shop one time for a wiper recall and that was done while I had the dealer do an oil change. 23000 miles later, still happy as can be. My prior 2013 Ram was in the shop only two times for warranty work, I guess it is the luck of the draw.

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YUP, mine has been fine. Just had the (3) recall updates done and I did have the AC TSB done because the early built 2018's had an AC issue. To be honest, not 100% happy with the AC TSB, but hey, it is a truck. Runs fine, goes Vroom when it needs to, tows fine, starts up, and since I got the plain jane Uconnect 4 Radio (no guardian, sos, or other BS), no OTA's so my radio does just fine. Works for this poor BOIRD. (My truck just turned 4 by build date of Apr 2018).

CAVEAT: In MY Humble Opinion, the TOTY is the one in your driveway that you own, runs fine and takes care of business. IMHO of course.

RamDutyl said:

Interesting! Is there an award for reliability and durability, outside of Consumer Reports?

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Consumer reports IS over rated, IMO. Quit reading CR years ago.

Third Ram. Great trucks. Minor issues. Believe warranties have covered everything, beyond routine maintenance, wear and tear. Fortunately I have not had a lemon. Don't know a Ram owner with a lemon. Yea, lemons happen. RARE, MeThinks.

IIRC, my initial post was seeking advice, NOT whine, when Hemi engine blew at 84K miles. Crap happens. Ram took care of everything, including rental. Clearly an inconvenience. Nothing out of pocket. Received GREAT ADVICE from folks here at the Ram Forum.

Had a 95 Taurus that blew a tranny in CA with <500 miles. Was actually moving between duty stations heading to Indian Head, MD. That sucked. Did I suggest, crap happens. Roll with it., Deal with it.

I just lemon-lawed my 2021 2500 Tradesman - I6. At 9500 miles the transmission went in for hard shifting. 7 weeks later I got the truck back. At the same time, I got a lawyer and now 2 months later I am getting an offer from FCA that will resolve the issue. They could have avoided all this by just replacing the transmission after the 2nd attempt to fix the issue. they decided to try 2 more times with the last being a rebuild. It was an unmitigated disaster in the making. The dealer was clueless with a million excuses and Ram Cares was worthless. I will say this -- after the rebuild, the transmission shifted like it never had before, it was amazing the difference between the two, it was much better. Obviously, the issue came from the factory and I didn't know it because I never owned or operated a similar truck so for me, the shift patterns were normal when in reality they weren't.

This is the 3rd vehicle I Lemon-law. One ford and one GMC and now Ram. Don't anyone say anything about how good Toyota is because they have had major issues with the Tacoma and rusting frames and rear spring issues. Don't ask me how I know.

any rate, I am going to replace this truck with another Ram because all the manufacturers have issues and, to be honest after the DOD fiasco with GM I'll never purchase a GM vehicle in my life. That was a difficult one to swallow because that LS engine is rock solid but they went ahead and screwed it up and never fixed the issue. I am glad they are now dealing with it in court. Hopefully, my wife's vehicle doesn't cause me issues.

Lemon laws exist for a good reason because if they didn't the manufacturers would be sticking it to the public and not being held accountable.

The truck still has another issue with dust entering the cab which they never fixed and which will soon be their issue to deal with.

Vijo said:

I just lemon-lawed my 2021 2500 Tradesman - I6. At 9500 miles the transmission went in for hard shifting. 7 weeks later I got the truck back. At the same time, I got a lawyer and now 2 months later I am getting an offer from FCA that will resolve the issue. They could have avoided all this by just replacing the transmission after the 2nd attempt to fix the issue. they decided to try 2 more times with the last being a rebuild. It was an unmitigated disaster in the making. The dealer was clueless with a million excuses and Ram Cares was worthless. I will say this -- after the rebuild, the transmission shifted like it never had before, it was amazing the difference between the two, it was much better. Obviously, the issue came from the factory and I didn't know it because I never owned or operated a similar truck so for me, the shift patterns were normal when in reality they weren't.

This is the 3rd vehicle I Lemon-law. One ford and one GMC and now Ram. Don't anyone say anything about how good Toyota is because they have had major issues with the Tacoma and rusting frames and rear spring issues. Don't ask me how I know.

any rate, I am going to replace this truck with another Ram because all the manufacturers have issues and, to be honest after the DOD fiasco with GM I'll never purchase a GM vehicle in my life. That was a difficult one to swallow because that LS engine is rock solid but they went ahead and screwed it up and never fixed the issue. I am glad they are now dealing with it in court. Hopefully, my wife's vehicle doesn't cause me issues.

Lemon laws exist for a good reason because if they didn't the manufacturers would be sticking it to the public and not being held accountable.

The truck still has another issue with dust entering the cab which they never fixed and which will soon be their issue to deal with.

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Good input. I have Lemon Lawed once, but did not need a lawyer. Went through arbitration. So I'm curious if Ram has to pay your lawyer bills?

Also, what tranny? 68RFE or Aisin?

From what I understand is that every state has its own lemon law which is a variation on the same theme the details of which I do not know anything about. I think there are some state laws that by default need to be included in the lemon law program. I think them paying legal fees is one of the requirements.

In this state, the legal fees are paid by the manufacturer so for me it was a no-brainer.

I'll put up a detailed post in the near future. It could have all been resolved if the dealer would have made an honest attempt to resolve the issue in a timely manner and if FCA would have actually helped out. 3 weeks into the fiasco I got the feeling like this was going to go sideways. I honestly tried to work with them and was very patient. They continued as if I had no option which at that point I didn't have any option because I was outside of what the requirements were for the lemon law. once the 5 weeks passed they were behind the eight ball by one week and they still continued the same BS. I stopped calling them and they all of a sudden realized where this was going and it got escalated all the way to the top with several calls a day by all kinds of folks. I totally ignored them just like they did to me and that drove them nutz!!! it still took them an additional 2 weeks to resolve. They tried every trick in the book to make it difficult for me, like splitting up the repair order to show it hadn't been in the shop for so long. The lawyer walked me through the whole process so there were no mistakes along the way. Again, had they not given me all the paperwork in the format required, I probably would have gone to arbitration and had incomplete paperwork and lost. Again, a lawyer was so worth it. Just kick back and let him recoup all the expenses and make sure FCA was held responsible. When I did my Ford at least they realized the issue was not easily resolved (4 replaced leaking rear main seals). They realized how bad they screwed up and offered me a new vehicle once I mentioned lemon law. It was a pleasure dealing with Ford, they owned up to the issue but this was back in the 90s. I am sure it's different now

BTW -- it was a 68RFE. My next ruck will be an AISIN equipped vehicle even if I don't really need it. The 68 seems to be a good transmission if you get lucky and get a good one from the factory and/or you don't push it to its limits. I am going to go out on a limb and say that AISIN has MUCH better manufacturing processes and quality control.

Thanks for the details. You are right, every state is different, but it's still good to get a first hand experience with the lawyering up thing.

I agree the 68RFE is a good tranny, but I don't think you have to be lucky to get a good one. I've been reading Ram forums for a couple of years now, and it's not common at all on a stock truck to see many issues with it. Now the 66RFE is a different story! Not discounting your experience at all, and I hope you have better luck with the AISIN.