towing numbers on my 2500

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jvbuttex

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As i read through the posts, watch vids, i see tongue weight should be 10-15% of trailer weight.
I made adjustments to the WDH due to too much sag in front from improper setup.
Truck is 2018 Ram 2500 - Front GAWR 6000 Rear GAWR 6500
Trailer is 2020 Passport 29rlwe - Trailer sticker is Unloaded weight 6090lbs / GVWR 7200

Truck with me in it, 3/4 tank fuel, i get Front 4950 / Combined 8650 / Rear 3600

I loaded up the trailer with H20 tank, empty black/grey, all the standard items inside pots pans, clothes. Drove over to the loggers scale to check the numbers.

As I rolled on to the scale w/trailer , i get Steer axle 4650 / drive axle 5400 / Trailer duals 6200

As I calculate it, my trailer is 6090 dry (spec), + 40g fresh 320lbs; puts me at 6400lbs. 15% is 960lbs tongue weight
Actually from scale weights, if i take the loaded axle of 5400 - unloaded 3600 I get different number 1800lbs. Double I have not actually dropped the hitch on the scale to check actual.

Is this true numbers? Seems a bit much

I don't see how to reduce much of the tongue weight. I have moved batteries under the bed. We have a front bedroom model. There are now 2 batteries so that will add weight. I did pull everything out of the forward compartment and only dropped 180lbs.

Any thoughts why so much tongue weight?
Appears to be ok for the truck axle, but its too much for the "recommendation"
 

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csuder99

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The trailer has only 1110 lbs of payload which is very low for a trailer of that size. The long distance from the tongue to the axles does not help with tongue weight either. You need to subtract the 300 lbs lost on the steer axle from the calculated tongue weight as that weight is moved to the rear axle (the truck is still the same weight). Still, that's 1500 lbs of tongue weight (not uncommon for large trailers) but together with the 6200 lbs on the trailer axles that's 7700 lbs or 500 lbs overweight.

Unfortunately the majority of trailer manufacturers only care about building the biggest trailer with the lowest GVWR so they can claim they are "half-ton towable" (hint: They are not....)

Edit: Just looked up similar size trailers from a reputable manufacturer and their GVWR is 10000 lbs+.

2nd edit: It appears the water tank is all the way in the front, traveling with very little water would help reducing tongue weight.
 
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dhay13

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As I calculate it unless I'm misreading you have 1400lbs tongue weight? To get this you take the weight of the truck with no trailer (8650) then subtract that from your total weight with trailer (10,050). If my weights here are correct then you have 1400lbs tongue weight. Still high. Your trailer axles say 6200lbs then add your 1400lbs of trailer weight on your tongue and you get a trailer weight of 7600lbs. 7600x12% = 912lbs so you should be closer to 900-950lbs ideally. That trailer should be able to get there. Examples, my son has a travel trailer that weighed 8100lbs loaded and he had 12% tongue weight (just under 1000lbs). My step-son had a TT that empty off the dealer lot with 53 gallons in the fresh water tank weighed 9300lbs. We weighed it and it had 1100lbs tongue weight so we were at 11.8%.

When you calculated it you took the loaded rear axle and subtracted unloaded rear axle. That is incorrect as some weight from the front axle gets transferred to the rear axle also. The correct way is to take the truck empty and subtract it from truck/trailer. That will give you the total trailer weight. Then take just your truck axles loaded and unloaded and subtract those from your total weight with trailer. The difference is your tongue weight. Then add that tongue weight back to your trailer axle weight to get total trailer weight.
Looks like your trailer is over GVWR so must really be loaded? My sons was 6500 dry but weighed 8100lbs loaded.
 

OC455

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According to your numbers you are at 22% tongue weight.
 
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jvbuttex

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Unfortunately the majority of trailer manufacturers only care about building the biggest trailer with the lowest GVWR so they can claim they are "half-ton towable" (hint: They are not....)


2nd edit: It appears the water tank is all the way in the front, traveling with very little water would help reducing tongue weight.
Yes I am finding that out. Yes often we only travel with 1/2 tank of water. That would help.
When you calculated it you took the loaded rear axle and subtracted unloaded rear axle. That is incorrect as some weight from the front axle gets transferred to the rear axle also. The correct way is to take the truck empty and subtract it from truck/trailer. That will give you the total trailer weight. Then take just your truck axles loaded and unloaded and subtract those from your total weight with trailer. The difference is your tongue weight. Then add that tongue weight back to your trailer axle weight to get total trailer weight.
Looks like your trailer is over GVWR so must really be loaded? My sons was 6500 dry but weighed 8100lbs loaded.
Thanks for your input, but I am confused. Above I did post the weights of just the truck.
Front 4950 / Combined 8650 / Rear 3600 (Combined is both axles on the scale, no trailer attached)

you said,
Then take just your truck axles loaded and unloaded and subtract those from your total weight with trailer.
this does not make sense to me, (loaded) 5400 + (unloaded) 3600 = 9000 - total truck and trailer) 16250 = 7250
Why add both rear axles loaded and then unladed... subtract maybe.
 

crash68

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According to your numbers you are at 22% tongue weight.
your calculation 4% high, its 18%
Why add both rear axles loaded and then unladed... subtract maybe.
Truck w/trailer hooked - truck alone = tongue weight
10050 - 8650 = 1400
Trailer axle weight + tongue weight = total trailer
6200 + 1400 = 7600
Tongue weight / trailer weight = tongue percentage
1400 / 7600 = .18 (18%)
 
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jvbuttex

jvbuttex

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ok thanks, that I can understand... so at 18% that is still high. I guess i can try to relocate the 2 batteries and (soon to install inverter) back behind the axles, under the couch. Its about over the axles, but would remove 75lbs ( + 50lbs inverter) Still seems like poor layout of trailer design.
 

csuder99

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With the heavy diesel truck towing the trailer I wouldn't worry too much. It does not look like a sketchy setup so you're not going to get a second look from LE. The two rear axles combined can carry 7000 lbs so you're good there despite being a little on the heavy side.
 

62Blazer

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To be honest I think you are putting a little too much thought into this........ Not trying to bash anybody as a little common sense is needed and you want to make sure the setup is right. The 10-15% percent tongue weight is just a general starting point to get you close. The most important thing is how the truck handles, and if you don't have crazy sag or the front end getting light. I get a kick out of people who hook up a trailer and say it pulls and handles great, but think it will explode and kill a bus full of nuns because "on paper" the numbers are a little different than what all the internet experts say.
That simply is not that big or heavy of a trailer, especially considering it weighs less than the truck, and you are not removing any significant weight from the front axle. If you think moving 75 lbs. on a 16,000+ lb. setup is going to make a difference go for it!
 

mtofell

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More tongue weight is a better towing experience from a physics perspective. The reason people are often trying to lower it is because their 1500 truck is not capable of carrying it. You don't have that problem and should be happy with your setup. There really is no such thing as too much tongue weight until it starts overloading the truck. I'd stop trying to fix a problem you don't have. Go drive it and report back.
 
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jvbuttex

jvbuttex

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@62Blazer thanks for the input. all I've read was 10-15% and seen posters tongue numbers so It got me thinking. As for handling, yes it handles just fine. Yes I dont think moving small weight off the front and to the rear. Just tossing out ideas. I cant exactly put the kitchen pots / pans in the back compartments
@mtofell Yes I come from that camp, had a 2015 1500 i pulled it and it was a bit to heavy for it. So we upgraded and all is better now.
 

62Blazer

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More tongue weight is a better towing experience from a physics perspective. The reason people are often trying to lower it is because their 1500 truck is not capable of carrying it. You don't have that problem and should be happy with your setup. There really is no such thing as too much tongue weight until it starts overloading the truck. I'd stop trying to fix a problem you don't have. Go drive it and report back.
Well, only to a certain extent. I think the difference is actual tongue weight with is cantilevered off the back of the truck versus transferring weight from the trailer to the truck tires (such as with a weight distributing hitch that transfers "tongue weight" to the front tires). Sure, if have a 10,000 lb. trailer and can transfer 4,000 lb. equally distributed to the front and rear wheels of the truck it will tow better but just dropping 4,000 lb. at the tongue which puts all that weight on the rear axle and makes the front end super light will be a scary drive.
I think I understand what you are saying, but I have also seen people with that philosophy that pull whatever load on their flatbed trailer all the way to the front and about cause the truck to wheelie.
 

dhay13

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There is also a max hitch weigh to consider on these hitches
 

mtofell

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Well, only to a certain extent. I think the difference is actual tongue weight with is cantilevered off the back of the truck versus transferring weight from the trailer to the truck tires (such as with a weight distributing hitch that transfers "tongue weight" to the front tires). Sure, if have a 10,000 lb. trailer and can transfer 4,000 lb. equally distributed to the front and rear wheels of the truck it will tow better but just dropping 4,000 lb. at the tongue which puts all that weight on the rear axle and makes the front end super light will be a scary drive.
I think I understand what you are saying, but I have also seen people with that philosophy that pull whatever load on their flatbed trailer all the way to the front and about cause the truck to wheelie.
All this falls under my caveat of "until you overload the truck". One can always come up with "what ifs" but I don't think your situation is even close to any of those. A 2500 with just about any travel trailer is a GREAT setup. You'll be able to ignore 90% of the posts on here all summer. Since 90% are of people with a decked out 1500 with 1100# of payload who bought an 8,000# TT.
 

HighDesertRam

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I just towed our travel trailer, or what is referred to as a "sheep camp" up the mountain to 10,000 feet for the first time with our 2022 Ram 2500 HD diesel 4X4. I had hooked everything up a month ago with the weight distributing hitch for a test run on the flat, to adjust the brakes and test handling, and everything worked fine. Previously, we had a Chevy Silverado 2500 HD gas pickup that was breathing hard by the time it made it up the mountain.

Our new Ram towed the "camp" up the hill easily in tow haul mode and with the transmission set to "auto". Temperatures were very stable, and the transmission rarely made a shift. Coming down the hill with the air brake was great and when I did change the maximum gear setting the shift was very smooth. I was very impressed.

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