Premium vs regular gas

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AlexC2350

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The fundamental error in this logic is money drives policy and the petroleum industry and internal combustion automotive industry has orders of magnitude more financial resources than any green agenda. The reality is a petroleum based society like ours doesn’t scale with ours and the world’s increasing populations and economies. Simple cost vs demand. Also high gas prices hurt the party in office so the Democrats have more to loose and everyone knows all politician’s first concern is staying in office so any left green agenda will take a backseat to the economy. The current spike in fuel cost is a combination of world demand, refining capacity and commodity prices influenced by a war.
This may have been true of the old days… look up ESG scores and investing. (Environmental and Social Governance) The biggest most powerfull businesses are doing this, Blackrock, vanguard, all the tech companies and yes big energy companies. Governments are pushing it. Government policy effects everything. We barely live in a free society and absolutely don’t have a free economy. None of this is as plain and simple you think. Don’t act like you have all the answers here, you don’t, you can’t because it is too complex. I sure as **** don’t but none of them should be trusted or given a free pass here.
 

BWL

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Well I did 3 round trips now with a mix of 89 and 91 and got roughly 12.9-13 litres per 100 km on average for 6000 km give or take. Drove up 2 days ago on 87 and dropped back to 13.8 litres per 100km as was usual for me before I switched. Not a huge improvement with 89, but enough to cover the extra cost at the moment.
 

duc1100

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This may have been true of the old days… look up ESG scores and investing. (Environmental and Social Governance) The biggest most powerfull businesses are doing this, Blackrock, vanguard, all the tech companies and yes big energy companies. Governments are pushing it. Government policy effects everything. We barely live in a free society and absolutely don’t have a free economy. None of this is as plain and simple you think. Don’t act like you have all the answers here, you don’t, you can’t because it is too complex. I sure as **** don’t but none of them should be trusted or given a free pass here.
I agree with a lot of your post and you do point out some problems with my agreement but I still believe the major flaw is assuming politics is driving this when economics and world markets are. Big multi-nationals have far more control over the economy. The other observation is the cost of fuel in most places on earth is much higher than the US. Those prices are more likely examples of green political agendas. My point is people make everything a political issue because it feeds the narrative that the other side is the cause of all their problems.
 

Daw14

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I agree with a lot of your post and you do point out some problems with my agreement but I still believe the major flaw is assuming politics is driving this when economics and world markets are. Big multi-nationals have far more control over the economy. The other observation is the cost of fuel in most places on earth is much higher than the US. Those prices are more likely examples of green political agendas. My point is people make everything a political issue because it feeds the narrative that the other side is the cause of all their problems.
All of the above are taking their share from us.
 

duc1100

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All of the above are taking their share from us.
I don’t disagree but I’m left asking the question is it reasonable to assume fuel costs can remain low in the US relative to the rest of the world? Looking at the growth in world demand alone makes me believe the answer is no.
 

ramffml

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I tried a tank of 87 last week for the first time since I bought my truck in 2013. I have my Trinity set to flash the LEDs when it pulls more than 3⁰ of timing. On 89 it would only flash here and there under certain conditions and on 93 it hardly flashed at all. On 87 it was lit up almost the entire way to work. I started watching it and it was pulling 5-6⁰ every time it was in MDS or lugging at a lower RPM on the highway.

I also lost about .5mpg. Now obviously the cost of 93 vs 87 right now isn't worth .5mpg to me, but the fact that detonation is happening that much does matter to me. So it's getting at least 89 from now on.

Just my .02.

Wow. I think your post needs to be a sticky somewhere. We can preach to the choir but some guys just like to insist that there is no difference and there is no knock and their truck runs fine.

Every time your light flashes, that's knock that our computer will detect (audibly using microphones). I don't know about long term damage, but that kind of thing just rubs me the wrong way.

You just confirmed what my ears were suggesting: 89 it is, towing or not.
 

Hemi395

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Wow. I think your post needs to be a sticky somewhere. We can preach to the choir but some guys just like to insist that there is no difference and there is no knock and their truck runs fine.

Every time your light flashes, that's knock that our computer will detect (audibly using microphones). I don't know about long term damage, but that kind of thing just rubs me the wrong way.

You just confirmed what my ears were suggesting: 89 it is, towing or not.
Thanks:)


I forgot to mention, I didn't always hear knocking. In fact I only heard it when it 5-6⁰ of ST Knock but obviously the PCM knew it was happening..
 

njjeff201

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Knock sensors will retard engine timing so you will probably not hear engine knocking. Just remember engines run better economy when timing is advanced. I'm not sure but running higher octane should give you increased mileage. My wife flipped on me when I was gonna go with 93 once!
 

Docwagon1776

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Wow. Probably why you don’t see a lot of full size trucks and SUVs in Europe. It’s definitely nice to live in a country with oil reserves and be able to afford to drive a full size truck.

That, and actually driving one there sucks in anything approaching urban areas. A Rav-4 is the biggest thing I've rented in Europe and it was like driving a Suburban-L in the US. Narrow roads, small parking places, and in town the roads have sharp turns and bends that can make it necesary to do a multi-point turn just to get around the curve.

You do see some full size SUVs. We watched a woman do an Austin Powers series of turns to get a Jeep Grand Cherokee into a parking space in a paid garage in Seville last time we were in Spain. But they are very limiting in the cities.
 

Docwagon1776

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I tried a tank of 87 last week for the first time since I bought my truck in 2013. I have my Trinity set to flash the LEDs when it pulls more than 3⁰ of timing. On 89 it would only flash here and there under certain conditions and on 93 it hardly flashed at all. On 87 it was lit up almost the entire way to work. I started watching it and it was pulling 5-6⁰ every time it was in MDS or lugging at a lower RPM on the highway.

I also lost about .5mpg. Now obviously the cost of 93 vs 87 right now isn't worth .5mpg to me, but the fact that detonation is happening that much does matter to me. So it's getting at least 89 from now on.

Just my .02.


So what you're saying is it will run on 87 but run better on 89. If only there was some resource, maybe a small book or something that comes with the vehicle, that would tell people that.

:D
 

njjeff201

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Wow. I think your post needs to be a sticky somewhere. We can preach to the choir but some guys just like to insist that there is no difference and there is no knock and their truck runs fine.

Every time your light flashes, that's knock that our computer will detect (audibly using microphones). I don't know about long term damage, but that kind of thing just rubs me the wrong way.

You just confirmed what my ears were suggesting: 89 it is, towing or not.
What may I ask is a Trinity... an engine analyzer? (Amazon)?
 

Southern Ram

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I use shell 87 octane in my 2019 with the hemi and it runs fine. I usually fill up when it’s about 1/2 a tank.
 

Lysergic

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My 2012 4.7L has the capability to use E85, which I had never used before. I was on fumes and pulled into a station that had E85 for a buck less a gallon than 87 octane regular. Tried it. Truck ran like a scalded cat on the freeway, but the gas mileage, ooh! Ran two tanks through it fairly quickly and went back to regular. The performance increase was remarkable, but the 5 MPG drop just isn't worth it. And they raised the price.
 

farout75

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I haven't read all pages of this thread, but I have not seen a lot of scientific analysis for why a higher octane fuel is in general better. The reality is, that engines are designed to use a specific octane, primarily based on their compression ratio. Lower octane fuels burn faster, so their use in an engine designed to run on higher octane can cause knock, which is simply the result of the fuel burning quickly enough to create enough pressure to cause the intake valve to "ping" against the valve seat before it is fully closed. Knock sensors sense pressure timing and retard the spark timing so that this is eliminated or at least minimized. Use of higher octane fuel in engines designed for lower octane can have the opposite effect, although knock sensors can also compensate for this to some degree. In this scenario, the fuel burns too slowly and can actually result in lower performance and excess unburned fuel which then needs to be processed in the catalytic converter. This can cause failure of the converter. The bottom line here is that the quality of the fuel is far more important than the octane rating if you're looking for performance and engine health. The best bet, unless you have modified your engine, is to follow the manufacturer's recommendations. They are there for a reason. If your manual says that a higher octane fuel is preferred, use of that octane can and usually will result in slightly better performance and potentially better fuel economy. Use of the lower, acceptable octane rating will simply have a slight effect on performance and fuel economy in the other direction. Personal experience and opinion cannot trump the science. Read this article if you want to better understand this .....

In 107,000 miles i have used 87 all the time, never had a ping or lack of power. buying anything else is wasting $.
 

farout75

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As stated in an earlier post my mileage records would indicate a very slight increase in MPG, but the difference could well be within the noise of the variables, such as driving cycle, ambient temperature, weather, and me.

However, when I switched back to 87 recently I, too, noticed a slight difference in idle quality that apparently only I could detect. That was Kwik-Fil and Speedway gas. The Sunoco seems to be okay.

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33-gallon fuel tank, factory dual exhaust, 18” wheels. Build date: 3 June 2018. Now at 71822 miles
I have used TOP TIER shell or Cemex 87 gas all the time! at 107,000 miles there has never been a ping. MPG averages 17 to 19.5 depending on temp, wind and hills.
 
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