Transmission pan and fluid change questions

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Atcer2018

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I used the spacers on my PPE pan. Pressed them in till they were flush with the non gasket side of the pan. My reasoning for this is I want the attachment bolts to contact the pan not a spacer. The spacer is only to protect the integrity of the gasket on a metal pan. On the plastic pan the spacers prevent the cracking or deformation of the plastic from over tightening.
 
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HangmanNY

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Do you think I should remove the spacers or leave them? It was a struggle getting them in the first time. The holes in the PPE pan are a hair smaller than the factory Mopar spacers. I had to clean up the holes a bit. I even cleaned the spacers on a bench grinder wire wheel then gave them a light coat of oil. Even them o had to put the pan in a vise and tap them in with a hammer and punch.
 
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HangmanNY

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I used the spacers on my PPE pan. Pressed them in till they were flush with the non gasket side of the pan. My reasoning for this is I want the attachment bolts to contact the pan not a spacer. The spacer is only to protect the integrity of the gasket on a metal pan. On the plastic pan the spacers prevent the cracking or deformation of the plastic from over tightening.
Did you notice if the spacers were longer than the thickness of the PPE pan?
 

Wild one

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Do you think I should remove the spacers or leave them? It was a struggle getting them in the first time. The holes in the PPE pan are a hair smaller than the factory Mopar spacers. I had to clean up the holes a bit. I even cleaned the spacers on a bench grinder wire wheel then gave them a light coat of oil. Even them o had to put the pan in a vise and tap them in with a hammer and punch.
With the amount of issues you're having with the spacers,i'd get rid of them. As Atcer says,the spacers are only there to prevent cracking or deforming the factory composite pan,you'll have to go alot more then 9 lb-ft to deform the aluminium PPE pan
 

smoothee

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Do you think I should remove the spacers or leave them? It was a struggle getting them in the first time. The holes in the PPE pan are a hair smaller than the factory Mopar spacers. I had to clean up the holes a bit. I even cleaned the spacers on a bench grinder wire wheel then gave them a light coat of oil. Even them o had to put the pan in a vise and tap them in with a hammer and punch.


I agree with Rick. I wasn't going to bother with the spacers at first either but they came out of the stock pan pretty easy so I stuck them in the freezer overnight for ***** and giggles and they went in the PPE nearly by hand
 

Atcer2018

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Did you notice if the spacers were longer than the thickness of the PPE pan?
Yes I did notice the spacers were slightly longer than the thickness of the PPE pan. I assumed the OEM pan used the spacers to: 1) prevent cracking or deforming the plastic. 2) protect the integrity of the gasket upon tightening the pan. 3) reduce the amount of play or slop in the holes as the bolts are not as wide as the holes and the pan could possibly move and shift on the mounting surface due to the slop. 4) possibly add an element of rigidity to the molded plastic pan.

The OEM pan had the spacers flush with the non gasket side of the pan. They appeared to be slightly longer than the thickness of the OEM pan. Again I assumed this was to protect the integrity of the gasket when tightening the pan down. The OEM mounting bolts contact the pan and apply pressure to the pan but the spacers limit the amount of actual force that can realistically be applied to the pan before the actual spacer contacts the transmission mounting surface.

The first time I changed my fluid I used a cheap knockoff pan purchased on eBay for $50 versus the $200 OEM pan. The knockoff pan included new mounting bolts and the directions stated that the pan bolts are designed to stretch and should not be reused. When I switched to the PPE pan I was reluctant to reuse the bolts so I went aftermarket and used a zinc alloy bolt from Fastenal.

While I did not have any leaks with the knockoff pan I elected to use an OEM gasket with the PPE pan to eliminate any sub standard parts.

I fitted the spacers into the PPE pan the same way the original OEM pan and the knockoff pan had the spacers fitted. Spacers flush with the non gasket side of the pan and sticking out ever so slightly higher on the gasket side. I torqued the mounting bolts to 10 foot pounds per the ZF torque sequence using a cheap Harbor Freight 1/4 inch drive torque wrench.

I have no leaks. It’s possible that the gasket you originally used was defective or not on par with an OEM gasket. Or it may have been the reused bolts failed to maintain the required clamping force. If I recall the gasket has an tag area that must be aligned with the corresponding detent in the pan to mate correctly.
Chances are with a new gasket and bolts all will be fine with your next install. As Wild One stated many have also used the PPE pan without the spacers with great success.
 
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HangmanNY

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I took all of the spacers out of the PPE pan. Then I took them to the bench grinder stone wheel. I took about an eighth of an inch off of one side. Then cleaned them up with the wire wheel. Then I put them on a couple of flat files to finish them off. Now they fit the height of the holes in the PPE pan. there was a slight recess on both sides. This way the head of the bolt Will only contact the pan. And on the side with the gasket surface the same, a slight recess.

I now know that the height of the original spacers was part of the problem. Once the new bolts arrive tomorrow I will fill it up and be back on the road again.

Thanks again for all the help!
 
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HangmanNY

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Yesterday I drained the cooling system. Then removed the original thermostat, cleaned all surfaces, put the rubber ring back in and put the bolts back in. Then refilled with distilled water and a quart of flush. I drove it for @ 70 minutes, drained, filled again with distilled water, drove again, drained, put new Mopar thermostat in & refilled with fresh OAT orange concentrate coolant. I never got more than 2 gallons out during any drain. There must be 2 gallons of distilled water in the block.

Transmission pan is still dry (no leaks). So cutting down those spacers worked.

Here is a photo of “temperatures” after driving for an hour today. We are in Florida right now. Are these considered “normal” including oil pressure? Thanks!A2C08054-69DE-4CF2-8E7C-0056E8FD8861.jpeg
 
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Different Drummer

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I have about 8 different styles and sizes of dental extractors that my dentist gave me. Different angles and shape of the jaws. The edges that grab are quite thin and have a curvature shape but amazingly strong. The harder you squeeze them the more tenaciously they grip. It is amazing how many times I have used them to remove so many different broken off or stuck fasteners.
 
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HangmanNY

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Somewhere in either of these threads,i'm pretty sure you'll find the info you want.


Right. Is we are between Long Island, NY and Florida. Hopefully in Florida permanently by the end of this year. have some of the guys here has good results with the RevMax bypass kit? Are there any detailed videos showing how this is done? And what were the resulting transmission temperatures?

I don’t feel comfortable doing it myself. Do any of the guys here do this sort of work? I’d rather pay someone to do it. Not sure if anyone is in northern florida or downstate NY? Thanks!
 

Wild one

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Right. Is we are between Long Island, NY and Florida. Hopefully in Florida permanently by the end of this year. have some of the guys here has good results with the RevMax bypass kit? Are there any detailed videos showing how this is done? And what were the resulting transmission temperatures?

I don’t feel comfortable doing it myself. Do any of the guys here do this sort of work? I’d rather pay someone to do it. Not sure if anyone is in northern florida or downstate NY? Thanks!
Khris (CrazyKid) and i started out with the Revmax kit and abandoned it. If you do decide to use it,make sure to follow the 3rd procedure,the first 2 will cook your transmission in short order. If Jesse (Caulk04) has any of his bypasses left,it's a better option then the over priced Revmax kit.Start reading about pg25 on the Revmax thread if you want to see what Khris and i ended up doing,although in hindsight i'd use Jesse's bypass,but he didn't come out with his bypass until Khris and i had already done our 8 speeds
 
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HangmanNY

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I sent Jessie a private message. I don’t feel comfortable doing it myself but I wouldn’t mind paying someone to do the work with his kit. Providing that everything will work as people claim.

We are between North/central Western Florida and downstate New York. I don’t know if any of the guys on this forum who do this work are anywhere near those locations.

Thanks!
 

Wild one

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I sent Jessie a private message. I don’t feel comfortable doing it myself but I wouldn’t mind paying someone to do the work with his kit. Providing that everything will work as people claim.

We are between North/central Western Florida and downstate New York. I don’t know if any of the guys on this forum who do this work are anywhere near those locations.

Thanks!
Jesse's bypass is pretty easy to install.I'm in Alberta,so i'm not much help ,unless you want to take a tour to one of Canada's tourist traps Banff Alberta,lol.
 

RamReazy3

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Yesterday I drained the cooling system. Then removed the original thermostat, cleaned all surfaces, put the rubber ring back in and put the bolts back in. Then refilled with distilled water and a quart of flush. I drove it for @ 70 minutes, drained, filled again with distilled water, drove again, drained, put new Mopar thermostat in & refilled with fresh OAT orange concentrate coolant. I never got more than 2 gallons out during any drain. There must be 2 gallons of distilled water in the block.

Transmission pan is still dry (no leaks). So cutting down those spacers worked.

Here is a photo of “temperatures” after driving for an hour today. We are in Florida right now. Are these considered “normal” including oil pressure? Thanks!View attachment 496163
Yes I live in South Florida and those number are normal. Those are usually my temps.
 

FORGEDRAM

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I used new hex head bolts from Fastenal for my install as I have the black finish PPE pan. I cleaned the mounting holes with a tap and used a tiny amount of nickel antiseize on the bolts.

Hey partner. I bought the PPE pan as well,
Do you have a part number or a link I can use to grab these transmission bolts?

The oem part number for the 845RE (Pentastar V6) transmission bolts is 6510056-aa. They go for over $10 at all my local dealers here. Im trying to find a good reputable site to buy all 13 for less.
 

Atcer2018

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Hey partner. I bought the PPE pan as well,
Do you have a part number or a link I can use to grab these transmission bolts?

The oem part number for the 845RE (Pentastar V6) transmission bolts is 6510056-aa. They go for over $10 at all my local dealers here. Im trying to find a good reputable site to buy all 13 for less.
Sorry I do not have a part number from Fastenal. I took an OEM fastener to the local store and the guy behind the counter measured and recommended the replacement. The Fastenal part is not like the OEM at all. It’s a powder coated hex socket machine bolt. Same thread and length as OEM but not the same shape. Worked perfectly though.
 

FORGEDRAM

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Sorry I do not have a part number from Fastenal. I took an OEM fastener to the local store and the guy behind the counter measured and recommended the replacement. The Fastenal part is not like the OEM at all. It’s a powder coated hex socket machine bolt. Same thread and length as OEM but not the same shape. Worked perfectly though.

Got you, you used a PPE pan as well right?

What torque spec did you torque the pan bolts down to?
 

Atcer2018

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Got you, you used a PPE pan as well right?

What torque spec did you torque the pan bolts down to?
I used a PPE pan. The factory spec for the pan bolts is 10NM or 92 inch pounds or 7.5 foot pounds. I personally used 8 foot pounds or 96 inch pounds because my torque wrench is not a $500 snap on. One helpful thing I learned during the process was you can get penetrating fluid on the bolts from around the exterior lip of the pan mating surface. Once you have the pan off you’ll better understand what I’m talking about. None of the 13 bolts terminate inside the transmission housing. The back side of all the bolts go through the lip of the transmission and can be felt if you run your finger on the transmission housing above the pan. You can get the nozzle of PB blaster up on top of those bolts and let it do its magic. I personally snapped two bolts on removal but after I got the pan off I saw that the ends of the bolts stick up through the transmission housing and can accept penetrating oil from above. I’m not in the rust belt but I had a fair bit of corrosion in the threads of the transmission housing so I ran a tap/chase up through each hole to make sure it was clear before I installed the new pan.
 

FORGEDRAM

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I used a PPE pan. The factory spec for the pan bolts is 10NM or 92 inch pounds or 7.5 foot pounds. I personally used 8 foot pounds or 96 inch pounds because my torque wrench is not a $500 snap on. One helpful thing I learned during the process was you can get penetrating fluid on the bolts from around the exterior lip of the pan mating surface. Once you have the pan off you’ll better understand what I’m talking about. None of the 13 bolts terminate inside the transmission housing. The back side of all the bolts go through the lip of the transmission and can be felt if you run your finger on the transmission housing above the pan. You can get the nozzle of PB blaster up on top of those bolts and let it do its magic. I personally snapped two bolts on removal but after I got the pan off I saw that the ends of the bolts stick up through the transmission housing and can accept penetrating oil from above. I’m not in the rust belt but I had a fair bit of corrosion in the threads of the transmission housing so I ran a tap/chase up through each hole to make sure it was clear before I installed the new pan.

Wow, thankyou for that headsup brother!
 
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