update of 5.7 engine rebuild

Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. If you click them and make a purchase, we may earn a small commission.

OP
OP
CrasherAsher

CrasherAsher

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2021
Posts
117
Reaction score
104
Location
Mesa
Ram Year
2009
Engine
5.7 hemi
@ColesRAM yea I have thought about that, I am fully prepared to do that. Moving forward i am going to try to contact the owner directly and see what direction he want to go. If he continues with this blaming game then I will pursue it legally. I am trying to avoid that cause once you get lawyers involved then that is time and money both are things i don't have to spare right now.
 

Yardbird

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2022
Posts
277
Reaction score
523
Location
Western NC
Ram Year
2018
Engine
3.6
The bad part is now the engine has metal in every galley, crevice and cranny. It will take a complete disassembly with brushes ran through everything and hot tanked several times. I would want a complete engine.

I have seen the inside of an engine with a new lifter and cam failure. It's a nasty sight.

Your cam was a roller cam wasn't it? If so, that shouldn't have been the failure part unless they installed something wrong.
 

G-Ride990

Administrator
Staff member
Administrator
Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2017
Posts
2,463
Reaction score
3,200
Location
Chandler, AZ
Ram Year
2016
Engine
5.7
@G-Ride990
@OcallyRamFam
I just got off the phone with Arizona Engine Rebuilding 8/16/22 and basically the hole bottom end of that motor is (F) Ducked. The crank shaft is toast along with 4 connecting rods and vvt solenoid and slew of other parts. There was so much metal in the motor the oil pickup was clogged. Dave said he has no idea how that happen he started to try and blame the aftermarket cam I brought from green racing saying how the high spring tension on the lifters can cause excessive heat... I then asked him how that would affect the crankshaft and connecting rods. he had no answer then moved the conversation to another topic. So basically from what i gather he need to talk John who i think is the owner for they want to handle this. I have a feeling they are going to try to get me to pay for this at least a portion.

I am sure it goes without saying but I do not want to deal with there BS, If they didnt feel comfortable installing an aftermarket cam, lifters, and springs. they should of told me when I told them about it. They follow the instruction on how to setup the spring tension. But didn't follow the instruction for first start up. The instruction the cam came with said Run for 30 min at 2k to 2.5k rpms then dump oil. They ran it for an hour at idle and I don't remember if they said they dumped the oil. I just want my truck done and done right. Granted i don't know much about building motors, but I am not doing anything exotic or out of the box. Its a HL cam, its not like I asking them to put a turbo with a nitrous system.

Thanks for letting me vent I am so pissed off and frustrated and I have this gut feeling that it's going to get worse before its gets better.
Do you have a list of what parts they installed? I'd like to see a whole break down and see if anything sticks out to anyone here.

Did you just do an MDS delete and cam/lifter swap? VVT Phase limiter? I don't know a ton about the internals of these engines but a few guys here are very knowledgeable. If you get us a list maybe one of them will chime in.

I also don't see why that would have anything to do with the bottom end but maybe someone else can see an issue from a parts list.

I think that they should have driven the truck around long enough to have found any issues. And if they actually swapped internal pieces I would assume that they would want to just to be sure. I agree, I wouldn't pay anything to fix it but I can not see this going anyway other than bad.
 

EdGs

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2020
Posts
2,478
Reaction score
3,556
Location
FL
Ram Year
2015
Engine
Hemi 5.7L
OMG I too would be PO'ed, I do not understand how they can not follow cam break in directions, that is a very important thing to due along with oil change if that is what the cam manufacture requires.. Do let us know how this goes... IMHO you should not have to pay them one dime for them to make it right including getting the exact replacement parts you gave to them to install...
+1 on this.

How bad was your original cam?

Sounds like a crap-ton of debris in there, and I hope they would've dropped your oil pan and cleaned the crud out from the first failure, along with several oil changes after reassembly.

I hope they make it right with you.

Hang in there.
 
Last edited:

Crooks1130

Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2021
Posts
36
Reaction score
47
Location
Louisiana
Ram Year
2014
Engine
5.7
Ok you said they did a full rebuild from top to bottom, so new rings, main bearings, rod bearings, honed the piston bores, and then everything involved in the cam swap?

Reason I’m curious here is because nothing involved in a cam swap would cause multiple rod bearings to be destroyed. 98% of the metal you are seeing in the engine is bearing material and a little metal from the rod journal and crank.

If they rebuilt the bottom end, my guess would be they either installed the wrong sized rod bearings or didn’t torque the rods down correctly. Any extra slack around the bearings and it would idle all day long but when you start putting a load and turning some RPMs it lets the crank journals “wiggle” in between the rod bearing and makes contact with it (should never touch metal to metal because there is an oil barrier provided by the oil pump) Once that bearing gets eaten up, the clearance where that oil barrier was around the crank journal is roughly 5x larger which causes the oil pressure to drop. Oil temp rises almost immediately because of the friction from metal to metal contact.
 
OP
OP
CrasherAsher

CrasherAsher

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2021
Posts
117
Reaction score
104
Location
Mesa
Ram Year
2009
Engine
5.7 hemi
I think I need to clarify, The cam and the top end of the motor are fine nothing wrong with it. All the damage is in the bottom end. The only reason Dave brought the cam into the conversation is because the cam didnt come from him. He did tell me before he installed it the cam would not have the same warranty as the parts the he supplied. So the cam, lifter, springs, and push rods I gave him will be on a limited warranty. The rest of the motor should be covered under a three warrantee that is listed on there website. He is trying to pin the damage on the cam so he can somehow get out of paying for it. I know enough about motors to know that the cam wont destroy crankshafts and connecting rods.
 
OP
OP
CrasherAsher

CrasherAsher

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2021
Posts
117
Reaction score
104
Location
Mesa
Ram Year
2009
Engine
5.7 hemi
@Crooks1130 Thank you for the explanation. I am definitely going to use that next time I speak to him.
 

Crooks1130

Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2021
Posts
36
Reaction score
47
Location
Louisiana
Ram Year
2014
Engine
5.7
Now I will say it is possible for something I’m the top end to fail and send metal particles down into the oil then pumped back into the crank, eventually getting in between the journal and rod bearing, but you would very easily see the broken part to cause that in the top end.

When I destroyed mine I had an oil issue where it had set for 3 months but only had a few miles on it (torque converter issue and back ordered parts) apparently sitting over the summer in Louisiana can get condensation in the oil pan. About 2000 miles into the cam swap and a good 25-30 passes at the track, and it completely seized the engine at 6800rpms. No warnings or anything, just lost that oil barrier from having loss of viscosity and and within 3 seconds, it was finished. If I can figure out how to post a picture I’ll show you what it looked like.
 

Crooks1130

Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2021
Posts
36
Reaction score
47
Location
Louisiana
Ram Year
2014
Engine
5.7
I’m not sure if you could call oil pump being the issue because the sump tube was full of debris and the debris made it to the top of the engine and into the vvt solenoid.

Another thing that baffles me is the fact they rebuilt the engine and just let it idle. That’s a red flag because a fresh engine build is supposed to idle for a very short time to make sure everything is functioning correctly, then cycled between 2000-2500rpm to seat the rings. All of the research I did when doing my rebuilds says that even during the 500mike break in, avoid excessive idling.
 
OP
OP
CrasherAsher

CrasherAsher

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2021
Posts
117
Reaction score
104
Location
Mesa
Ram Year
2009
Engine
5.7 hemi
@Crooks1130 I thought that was weird to about the idle times on startup. My thought process was well these guys are the experts they rebuild engine all day its all they do. so the probably know what they are talking about.
 

PaleFlyer

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2022
Posts
429
Reaction score
235
Location
Charlotte NC
Ram Year
2018
Engine
Hemi 5.7
@Crooks1130 I thought that was weird to about the idle times on startup. My thought process was well these guys are the experts they rebuild engine all day its all they do. so the probably know what they are talking about.
It's a lot easier to "idle" for an hour or so, versus trying to hold an RPM in a vehicle with "drive by wire". Also a lot cheaper if they are paying for the gas used during the break-in, and "customer service" right now, by not making you pay for a lot of gas, as they hold the truck at higher RPM...
I’m not sure if you could call oil pump being the issue because the sump tube was full of debris and the debris made it to the top of the engine and into the vvt solenoid.

Another thing that baffles me is the fact they rebuilt the engine and just let it idle. That’s a red flag because a fresh engine build is supposed to idle for a very short time to make sure everything is functioning correctly, then cycled between 2000-2500rpm to seat the rings. All of the research I did when doing my rebuilds says that even during the 500mike break in, avoid excessive idling.
Shouldn't we avoid excessive idling for the whole life? (rofl)
 

Mister Luck

cassis tutissima virtus
Joined
Aug 25, 2020
Posts
1,543
Reaction score
516
Location
WEST COAST
Ram Year
2016/2017
Engine
5.7 V8
I’m not sure if you could call oil pump being the issue because the sump tube was full of debris and the debris made it to the top of the engine and into the vvt solenoid.

Another thing that baffles me is the fact they rebuilt the engine and just let it idle. That’s a red flag because a fresh engine build is supposed to idle for a very short time to make sure everything is functioning correctly, then cycled between 2000-2500rpm to seat the rings. All of the research I did when doing my rebuilds says that even during the 500mike break in, avoid excessive idling.
unless you’re using cast iron You don’t really need to seat the rings browse a catalog see what’s applicable and available I believe its the type of rings the height of the ring lands on the pistons and the cylinder bore finish that dictate the break in

the rings are going to be plasma , molly what have you.. yes heat is an issue with a new build for about the first 2000 miles and a text book reason you go through the whole cooling system as well as the rest if the drivetrain,

(you don't give an old man a new heart just to have his legs go out.. )

test are sometimes run on a dedicated engine test stand if not the vehicle.

the reason you see rebuilders run the engine until it dies is because the fuel supply they use is temporary and if there are timing issues you don’t want to create more issues, and they can quickly cut the fuel and by the same token removing fuel from the system is less problematic.
 
Last edited:

Crooks1130

Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2021
Posts
36
Reaction score
47
Location
Louisiana
Ram Year
2014
Engine
5.7
It's a lot easier to "idle" for an hour or so, versus trying to hold an RPM in a vehicle with "drive by wire". Also a lot cheaper if they are paying for the gas used during the break-in, and "customer service" right now, by not making you pay for a lot of gas, as they hold the truck at higher RPM...

Shouldn't we avoid excessive idling for the whole life? (rofl)
Yes we should avoid excessive idling, but during a break in the ring seat process needs different ranges of RPM. Not sitting for 5-10 minutes at idle.

As far as the drive by wire…..all 3 times I have had zero issue with holding rpm between 2000-2500. It’s literally just a few minutes that you work it around at most, then go drive. I have a fully built 6.4 392 with 4.56 gears and while running 80mph I’m well over 2200 rpm and getting around 18mpg. Fuel cost would be less than $10 and makes zero sense for a budget cut in a rebuild worth thousands.
 

PaleFlyer

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2022
Posts
429
Reaction score
235
Location
Charlotte NC
Ram Year
2018
Engine
Hemi 5.7
Yes we should avoid excessive idling, but during a break in the ring seat process needs different ranges of RPM. Not sitting for 5-10 minutes at idle.

As far as the drive by wire…..all 3 times I have had zero issue with holding rpm between 2000-2500. It’s literally just a few minutes that you work it around at most, then go drive. I have a fully built 6.4 392 with 4.56 gears and while running 80mph I’m well over 2200 rpm and getting around 18mpg. Fuel cost would be less than $10 and makes zero sense for a budget cut in a rebuild worth thousands.
I meant they can't just throw a C Clamp on the throttle line, and walk away for a bit.

I was trying to think of a reason for this clear negligence from a builder.
 

Dodge 1500 4X4

Senior Member
Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2019
Posts
2,558
Reaction score
2,219
Location
Rochester, NY
Ram Year
2019
Engine
Hemi 5.7
Is it possible the cam bearing tolerance was too tight with that aftermarket cam, causing the bearing Depree to get spread throughout the engine.
 
OP
OP
CrasherAsher

CrasherAsher

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2021
Posts
117
Reaction score
104
Location
Mesa
Ram Year
2009
Engine
5.7 hemi
Is it possible the cam bearing tolerance was too tight with that aftermarket cam, causing the bearing Depree to get spread throughout the engine.
I dont see how the Cam bearing can affect the connecting rods bearing and crankshaft journals?
 

Mister Luck

cassis tutissima virtus
Joined
Aug 25, 2020
Posts
1,543
Reaction score
516
Location
WEST COAST
Ram Year
2016/2017
Engine
5.7 V8
Is it possible the cam bearing tolerance was too tight with that aftermarket cam, causing the bearing Depree to get spread throughout the engine.
The problem with OE bearings as replacements in rebuilds is they aren’t oversized OEM offer factory tolerances and that’s it.
 
Top