First Start after Cam Swap. Help pls!

CunningStunt · Aug 25, 2022

tntdiddy said:
I may have missed it but, what did your failed cam and lifters look like? Was a lobe missing? If so, how long was it driven with the tick?

Unfortunately, fixing your problem is going to take more than a few hours but well worth it to do it right. Since you've already test-driven it, I would pull the valve covers and do a leak-down test. This would be my first step because you can't do it after pulling the heads and it's a PIA checking for bent valves after the heads are off. This would indicate a bent valve or push rod (the result of bad timing). If you're semi-lucky in this step, you find a bent push rod and know it's because of bad timing.

2nd would be to pull the timing cover off to verify timing. You can use a small surgical (flexible head) mirror to get a peak in there or the video camera on a phone to see the mark (record a video since your head can't get in there). If the timing is good go to step 3.

3rd is to pull the heads and ensure that the lifters were installed in the correct bores (the directions can be very confusing at times). If you're on step 3 and find that you installed them incorrectly, you're lucky. Just relocate them to the correct bores.

Hopefully, you find the culprit before step 4 because now you've likely got a catastrophic problem in your engine.
4th is to verify your lifters are good, which they probably are since you said it sounds like a sewing machine and they seldom fail. BTW: I've performed these steps about 4-6 times over the past 9 months. Hope I haven't missed a step.

The pic you attached is almost exactly what my cam and lifter looks like.

I drove it for 40k more miles after the ticking started.

I just got done removing oil pump(Hemi engineer, Fukk that guy) and replacing all timing components and set the timing. I have no way to perform a leak down test although, I had my heads done at a shop.

Assuming my timing was off by only a link or two, is there really any risk of a damaged valve?

The crank turns over smooth now and all the rockers/lifters are in correct Position. I dont really see how anyone can mess up the lifters as the front and rear lifter holders are different. I see no indication of a bent rod.

I will be reinstalling everything hopefully this evening and try to start her again.

CunningStunt · Aug 25, 2022

Oh, and BTW my old timing chain and guide looked perfect. I replaced em anyways but there was no stretch or wear.

CunningStunt · Aug 25, 2022

RamRod37 said:
I would check your VVT(VCT) Valve under intake first. Make sure connector is plugged up good and and sure no pins pushed out off to side if that checks out pull it and check it for damage like in video thats a starting point cause it will throw both of them codes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05OGucfsudI&t=173s

I pulled the VVT valve and it looked fine. Also, good news, only a very very very small amount of very fine metal looked to be there. Should I replace it anyweays?

I replaced timing components and set timing.

RamRod37 · Aug 25, 2022

CunningStunt said:
I pulled the VVT valve and it looked fine. Also, good news, only a very very very small amount of very fine metal looked to be there. Should I replace it anyway?

I replaced timing components and set timing.

I would when I done mine I replaced everything new timing set, VVT sprocket, VVT Valve had heads reworked, new valve springs new oil pump, new water pump, new belt, and new belt tensioner, new pushrods anything that would require going in at later time I replaced it then

CunningStunt · Aug 25, 2022

RamRod37 said:
I would when I done mine I replaced everything new timing set, VVT sprocket, VVT Valve had heads reworked, new valve springs new oil pump, new water pump, new belt, and new belt tensioner, new pushrods anything that would require going in at later time I replaced it then

I will be getting one with my new radiator soon. Only things I didn't replace are the oil pump, cam phaser and belt tensioner

CunningStunt · Aug 25, 2022

Also another fun fact, I got all the way to timing chain, and got valve covers off in like 2 hours lol, when I started this it took me at least 6 to 8 hours spread over 3 days lol

EdGs · Aug 25, 2022

CunningStunt said:
Also another fun fact, I got all the way to timing chain, and got valve covers off in like 2 hours lol, when I started this it took me at least 6 to 8 hours spread over 3 days lol

That's the way it always works.....lol

CunningStunt · Aug 25, 2022

Jesus...I sheared a timing set bolt trying to torque it to spec...the low end of my torque wrench must be pretty inaccurate...

Yardbird · Aug 25, 2022

Or it could be a Chinese bolt. I've broken a couple lately, and I'm definitely not getting any stronger with older age.

Ghost1500 · Aug 25, 2022

CunningStunt said:
Jesus...I sheared a timing set bolt trying to torque it to spec...the low end of my torque wrench must be pretty inaccurate...

I did the same thing with the slider bolt on one of the front calipers. Torqued it to spec and "SNAP!" Thank God for Wagner replacement slider and bolt. And this happened on a Sunday. I thought it was a dealer item only. Glad I was wrong considering it was a Sunday.... Usually my luck sucks! lol......

Best regards,

-Mike

CunningStunt · Aug 25, 2022

I went to a local true value and they had the right bolt, I bought stainless.

CunningStunt · Aug 26, 2022

Got the timing cover back on all peripherals on the motor and the intake and everything ready for tomorrow. Gotta put the cooling system back together in the AM and refill all fluids, then hopefully will crank her up around noon. Again guys, thanks for following and helping.

Steve White · Aug 27, 2022

With the codes that you say that you have you will need to take the front timing cover off and check to make sure that the timing is not off. it sounds like you got it a tooth off and i would not run it anymore then you have to. these are interference engines.

CunningStunt · Aug 27, 2022

Got timing fixed and cranked her up. Throwing cylinder 3 misfire. Swapped coils, cleared, and code came back for #3

She sounds great, not like a diesel engine and lifters are very quiet.

She won't idle though.

Now I'm afraid I might have damaged the valves cus timing was definitely off and the chain might have even been partially off the crank sprocket.

Very very let down right now.

Yardbird · Aug 27, 2022

Run a compression test on #3. That way you will know if you're dealing with a bent valve or not.

CunningStunt · Aug 27, 2022

Never done one, what's all involved there?

Wild one · Aug 27, 2022

CunningStunt said:
Never done one, what's all involved there?

Pull 1 plug from every cylinder,pull the fuel pump relay,get yourself a decent compression tester,screw it into a cylinder,have somebody crank the engine while you watch the gauge,record that number,then move onto the next cylinder and repeat process.If there's a differance of more then 15 lbs per cylinder,try squirting a bit of oil in the cylinder thats down,if it comes up in compression,you have ring issues,if it doesn't come up,you usually have issues with the valves.Alot of guys will tell you ,you need to prop the throttle wide open,no you don't as long as you do every cylinder the same,they don't pull enough vacumn while cranking to make any differance with the throttle open or closed.If you want to prop the throttle blade open,you'll have to manually open it by hand and stick a screwdriver handle or something similiar into it to prop it open,as drive by wire throttle systems don't open the throttle blade by sticking your foot on the gas pedal and flooring it when cranking. Google how to do a compression test,i'm sure there will be a pile of video's on You Tube on how to do it,if my instructions don't work for you.

How to do a COMPRESSION test on a 5.7L HEMI. P0300, misfire, P0306, Valve seats

In this video i cover a 2014 Dodge 1500 with the 5.7L Hemi with a misfire in cyl 6. Had to alert the customer that the way he was doing the compression test ...

www.youtube.com

CunningStunt · Aug 29, 2022

Wild one said:
Pull 1 plug from every cylinder,pull the fuel pump relay,get yourself a decent compression tester,screw it into a cylinder,have somebody crank the engine while you watch the gauge,record that number,then move onto the next cylinder and repeat process.If there's a differance of more then 15 lbs per cylinder,try squirting a bit of oil in the cylinder thats down,if it comes up in compression,you have ring issues,if it doesn't come up,you usually have issues with the valves.Alot of guys will tell you ,you need to prop the throttle wide open,no you don't as long as you do every cylinder the same,they don't pull enough vacumn while cranking to make any differance with the throttle open or closed.If you want to prop the throttle blade open,you'll have to manually open it by hand and stick a screwdriver handle or something similiar into it to prop it open,as drive by wire throttle systems don't open the throttle blade by sticking your foot on the gas pedal and flooring it when cranking. Google how to do a compression test,i'm sure there will be a pile of video's on You Tube on how to do it,if my instructions don't work for you.

How to do a COMPRESSION test on a 5.7L HEMI. P0300, misfire, P0306, Valve seats

In this video i cover a 2014 Dodge 1500 with the 5.7L Hemi with a misfire in cyl 6. Had to alert the customer that the way he was doing the compression test ...

www.youtube.com

Is there any way to just test the cylinder I have the misfire in? I am 90% sure I either bent the valve (When lining up timing, I disregarded rotating the cam in phase with the crank and hit a stop and put a lot of pressure on it before realizing what I was doing), or there is a bent rod (Less likely, but still possible because I have visually inspected rockers/rods).

Will a leak down test be better to isolate and test just one cylinder? Just spitballing, not saying your advice isnt the proper method, just trying to get solid direction before turning the wrenches again.

tntdiddy · Aug 29, 2022

Since you’ve already fired the engine as it sits (not likely to cause more damage), it would be less time consuming to do a compression test on #3. You asked earlier about the likelihood of bending something with the timing off just a tooth or two? It’s likely but I’m not aware of anyone testing, admitting or sharing that information.

Wild one · Aug 29, 2022

CunningStunt said:
Is there any way to just test the cylinder I have the misfire in? I am 90% sure I either bent the valve (When lining up timing, I disregarded rotating the cam in phase with the crank and hit a stop and put a lot of pressure on it before realizing what I was doing), or there is a bent rod (Less likely, but still possible because I have visually inspected rockers/rods).

Will a leak down test be better to isolate and test just one cylinder? Just spitballing, not saying your advice isnt the proper method, just trying to get solid direction before turning the wrenches again.

Doing only 1 cylinder won't tell you much unless it reads really low,you usually want to know the differances between cylinders. You still have to pull a plug from each cylinder to do an actual test,so you might as well do all of them.It's your call,but i'd do a proper compression test.A leak down test will tell you if it's leaking past a valve or past the rings,but unless you have a decent air compressor and either buy or build yourself a leak down testor ,a compression test will usually accomplish what you want to know. Suck it up and do all cylinders whether you do a compression test or a leak down test,pulling one plug in each cylinder isn't all that tough,so quit trying to Mickey Mouse things,and do a proper test,you've already been a couple weeks doing this job,nows not the time to try for short cuts,lol. BTW if you'd of spun the motor over by hand with the plugs out,before you bolted it all back together,you'd of found any issues with piston to valve clearance. Watch these 2 video's before you go much farther,as he shows you how to turn the engine over by hand to check clearances. The second video covers his mistakes on the first video

Poor Man's Hellcat Ep2: Installing Eagle Cylinder Heads!

Poor Man's Hellcat Ep2: Installing Eagle Cylinder Heads! What does it take to install a set of Eagle cylinder heads on the older Hemi engines? In this video ...

www.youtube.com

Gen 3 Hemi Eagle Cylinder Head Swap IMPORTANT Revisions!

Gen 3 Hemi Eagle Cylinder Head Swap IMPORTANT Revisions! Well we all get things wrong sometimes, in this video I cover a few things that I incorrectly stated...

www.youtube.com

First Start after Cam Swap. Help pls!

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