towing 5th wheel with 1500

What's killin your hopes and dreams to be close to within capacities is the rear end ratio. 3:21 is cutting your numbers more than in half compared to 3:92s. Looking at some tow charts youd be pretty close if it atleast had 3:92 or swap out to aftermarket 4:10s.
I'm not advising to do a gear swap and you'd be good to go but regular cab Tradesmans 2wd trucks on the tow charts are in your ballpark. Still not recommended.

LouM said:

These forums are not going to get you answers you want to hear. You sound like you are fairly competent so you know you need heavier spindles and brakes in the front end, that is the end that will be the hardest to beef up. The rear axle can be swapped out for a full floating 3/4 or 1 ton. (Oh and by the way many 3/4 ton these days are on semi-floating rears NOT the good full floaters) As far as the legality of towing with a truck of less then the designed GVW on a non professional basis I have no idea as to who is going to pull you over and check you out, heck throw a couple of 2500 fender decals on her and go.
To many posters going on about lawsuits and shysters.

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If he doesn't really care about legal part. and towing numbers...

Then all he really needs to do is what I said above... Put some good E-Rated tires, heavy duty brakes, add some bags and/or better rear suspension.
1-2K$ then avoid hills, and keep speed low. hope he doesn't kill himself or someone else.

Buying a frame and/or dead 2500 is still going cost way more than he wants to spend, still have legal issues. Motor/trans/gears are still going suck.

5 pages of replies mostly all saying the same thing. Does anybody read prev replies anymore ?!!

My opinion would be to put 2500/3500 coil springs in, 4:10 gears as well as strengthening the frame

oldguy2 said:

I think asking for help was a waste of time. Most of you are quick to criticize but offer no actual help. There are obviously no hot rodders here who have built a car from scratch and had to get a new vin. You also have way more money to spend. I apologize for wasting your time.

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The help you don't want to hear you take as criticism. Some have offered ways to improve the situation but there is no getting around the legal aspect of it.

You can add to yur comfort level when towing and increase the safety for towing your combination, but you will never be legal to tow that combination.

Your truck's GCWR is 13,800 lbs (2017 1500 with 5.7L, 8-spd trans, and 3.21 gears). You cannot exceed that total weight rolling down the road. With a ~10,300 lb trailer that leaves 3500 lbs for truck, hitch, driver, passenger(s), and load. I'm pretty sure your truck alone will exceed that weight. Add that the most payload you have (before options) is 1690 lbs. Options, people, stuff, gas, and hitch will eat that up pretty quick before you get to hitch/pin weight - which is part of payload.

Towing capacity is a farce until you get to the HD level. Your truck's legal towing capacity, which is 8470 lbs, is pretty much unobtainable unless you have a stripped down bare-bones Tradesman or cab-and-chassis truck. Swapping to 3.92 gears only gets you to a GVWR of 7235 lbs, GCWR of 15,950 lbs, and max towing capacity of 10,620 lbs, which you won't be able to take advantage of either.

Towing capacity is a capability, not a limit. Your limits are:

GVWR - 6260 lbs
GCWR - 13,800 lbs

You truck cannot weigh more than 6260 lbs total (truck + payload) and the entire setup cannot be more than 13,800 lbs.

You will be hard-pressed to find a shop to certify new legal weight ratings based on your work (or if they do the work themselves). They would be accepting liability and all legal responsibility for any future issues. Even if they did it would not be a cheap endeavor.

Can you get away with your current setup? Probably. Should you? That's between you and your karma. There's more people's safety at stake other than yours. You have asked for recommendations and many have replied. Some have helped you improve your chances of success with your current situation, some have spoken to what they would do, and some have spoken from experience. It may not be what you wanted to hear (especially since your first post said "don't tell me to get another truck") but your request has a lot of legal implications that many have felt compelled to respond to as you will be on the road with us with this setup.

I bought my LD truck new when my old HD truck got totaled (not my fault). If I was going to keep towing anything larger than a utility trailer I would have taken the insurance company's check and bought another HD diesel truck again, no matter how old it would have to be for me to be able to afford it.

Attached is RAM's official spec sheet for your truck.

I'll get off my soapbox now.

Sturoc said:

5 pages of replies mostly all saying the same thing. Does anybody read prev replies anymore ?!!

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Because many feel that the only way for the OP to be safe is to be legal.

^^^^ This is the correct answer
However without being sarcastic I would ask you a couple questions.
A)What is the pin weight of your 5er?
B)What is the cargo capacity of your 1500?
If A is greater than B then you should not even consider it.


The short answer is that to my knowledge, RAM does not provide any 5th wheel or gooseneck connections available for the 1500 series. Even if you were going to use an Andersen hitch which only weighs 35 pounds, it would require significant modifications to the bed and frame to attach the gooseneck ball that the Andersen uses.
Stick with a bumper pull. Your truck being a 2wd long bed probably has more cargo capacity than most 1500's with the 6'4" bed and 4X4.

"Your truck's GCWR is 13,800 lbs (2017 1500 with 5.7L, 8-spd trans, and 3.21 gears). You cannot exceed that total weight rolling down the road. With a ~10,300 lb trailer that leaves 3500 lbs for truck, hitch, driver, passenger(s), and load. I'm pretty sure your truck alone will exceed that weight. Add that the most payload you have (before options) is 1690 lbs. Options, people, stuff, gas, and hitch will eat that up pretty quick before you get to hitch/pin weight - which is part of payload."


The weight thing aside. I don't believe that RAM ever made any allowances for a 5th wheel connections in a 1500 series truck anyway. Just to mount the hitch would take significant modifications.

It's tough getting old and remembering what we used to get away with. 50 years ago we didn't have vehicle inspections, not as much traffic or highway patrol only 2way radio in cop cars. We didn't even need liability insurance! Gas was less than 20 cents per gallon for the good stuff. But it's a different world now y'all know what I'm saying. Even if you are a great and really safe driver tooo many people are not and you have to watch out for stupid. I wasn't able to retire with a lot of money and I feel your pain. If you roll the dice you could lose what little you have not to mention destroying someone else's. There are no do-overs at our age.

5 pages of "No. Don't do this. You will be a danger to you, your family. And everyone around you" should suffice.

I tow a 28 foot fifth wheel with a 2016 Ram 1500. Trailer has a 1450# pin weight that I verified and my truck has a 1820 payload rating. I went with LT tires and added air bags in the coil springs and headed out to Alaska and didn't have any problems. I have been all over the western states since then. Yes I'm at the limit but we get down the road just fine. Oh and it will stop

Be prepared to have much longer times to get up to freeway speeds to merge with traffic and forget about passing slow moving tractor trailer rigs on steep grades.

To me a convential trailer that is attached to the hitch is a smarter way to travel. With a cap over the bed of the truck I can put camping and fishing gear inside the bed area as well as things like firewood or fuel cans. I add gutter adapters to the camper shell and then use a Thule crossbar and fit brackets and carry kayaks and bicycles. With a 5th wheel trailer all that available space is lost.

oldguy2 said:

First please don't tell me to buy another truck. My present truck is a 2017 1500 2wd long bed standard cab 5.7 and 8 speed 3.21 and only 24000 miles. Being 2wd and standard cab it is not a popular model in N.E. and if I sold it I wouldn't get a very good price. I also have a 30 ft Cougar 5th wheel trailer (about 10,300lbs I think). What would it take to be able to tow the trailer with the truck distances of no more than 150 miles. I have been towing a tag along about 26 ft with no problem. I figure if I spend 2-3 thousand $ on this truck I would be better off than buying an older truck with a lot of miles on it. I am retired but was an auto mechanic for 30 years so I will be doing most of the work myself. My son also is a professional welder so that would not be a problem.

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Maybe try listing your truck on Craigslist or Facebook Marketplace. You never know you may find someone looking for your exact truck.
An old timer car salesman told me once. “There’s an ass for every seat”

oldguy2 said:

I think asking for help was a waste of time. Most of you are quick to criticize but offer no actual help. There are obviously no hot rodders here who have built a car from scratch and had to get a new vin. You also have way more money to spend. I apologize for wasting your time.

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OP I'll admit I stopped reading at this point in the thread so I apologize if this has been mentioned or you've put this issue to bed.

What folks don't realize is a 30' 5th wheel is like pulling a 25' bumper pull travel trailer because 5' of the camper is over the bed. The payload weight and squat is your biggest hurdle to overcome.

Check out Hellwig's website they have some products that will help you. There are things you can do that WILL increase your payload but the question is exactly how much will it increase. You can add a helper leaf spring and that will increase payload some (again probably not much). Front and rear HD sway stabilizer bars are also a must in my opinion. Swap your rear axle ratio is at least a 4:30 (or lower) and add air bags in addition to the helper springs. Adding HD shocks is also important. I would also add a 3rd shock over the center of the rear axle (weld mounting brackets to the to rear end housing and add a cross member to the frame for the shock to mount to). Also HD oil and tranny coolers are required in my opinion. I don't recommend doing all of this and pulling a 10k lb trailer but I think could be done.

The bad news is doing all of this will probably cost you as much if not more than it would cost to trade in your truck and get a used 3/4 ton. I looked at beefing up a 1/2 ton to pull a 9200 lb TT and it would have cost me a lot more than buying a 3/4 ton.

Ranchodenali said:

It's tough getting old and remembering what we used to get away with. 50 years ago we didn't have vehicle inspections, not as much traffic or highway patrol only 2way radio in cop cars. We didn't even need liability insurance! Gas was less than 20 cents per gallon for the good stuff. But it's a different world now y'all know what I'm saying. Even if you are a great and really safe driver tooo many people are not and you have to watch out for stupid. I wasn't able to retire with a lot of money and I feel your pain. If you roll the dice you could lose what little you have not to mention destroying someone else's. There are no do-overs at our age.

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This is pretty much it. This isn't the old days when you bought a 1500 truck and it had basically the same axles under it as a 2500/3500, so you could swap out springs and be on your way. These days, the differences between 1500s and 2500/3500s are night and day. Coupled with more inspections, sue-happy people, and insurance companies that don't want to pay for ANYTHING, and you're entering into a can of worms that's probably best left closed.

Sure, you CAN modify a 1500 to accept 2500 springs (which would likely be your best bet, since 1500s have coil springs like 2500s do), and you could swap your spindles in the front and swap to a beefier rear axle from a 2500, and you could reinforce your frame to handle the weight and loading of this camper. You're looking at a LOT of custom fab work, a lot of time, and a lot of $$ just in parts to make this happen. Probably outside your budget.

Or, you COULD buy a junked-out 2500 and try to fit your body and engine/trans into it, and buy the custom driveshaft you'll likely need along with fabricating all the mounts. But be aware that NOTHING is going to be a direct fit. Sure your 1500 looks similar to a 2500 but that's about it. You'll be doing a LOT of fabrication to make everything fit together, IF you can get it to fit together right. To buy a rolling chassis in my area is going to run you probably better than $5k just for that.

You could likely find a travel trailer with a very similar layout that your truck can handle safely, and sell your fifth wheel for more than you buy the travel trailer for.

Your truck, while maybe not what people look for in your area, is likely EXACTLY what someone further south is looking for. Or at least is willing to pay today's prices for. If you found yourself a truck yes a few years older, but of a 2500/3500 variety, you'd be able to keep your fifth wheel and run with it.

2003F350 said:

This is pretty much it. This isn't the old days when you bought a 1500 truck and it had basically the same axles under it as a 2500/3500, so you could swap out springs and be on your way. These days, the differences between 1500s and 2500/3500s are night and day. Coupled with more inspections, sue-happy people, and insurance companies that don't want to pay for ANYTHING, and you're entering into a can of worms that's probably best left closed.

Sure, you CAN modify a 1500 to accept 2500 springs (which would likely be your best bet, since 1500s have coil springs like 2500s do), and you could swap your spindles in the front and swap to a beefier rear axle from a 2500, and you could reinforce your frame to handle the weight and loading of this camper. You're looking at a LOT of custom fab work, a lot of time, and a lot of $$ just in parts to make this happen. Probably outside your budget.

Or, you COULD buy a junked-out 2500 and try to fit your body and engine/trans into it, and buy the custom driveshaft you'll likely need along with fabricating all the mounts. But be aware that NOTHING is going to be a direct fit. Sure your 1500 looks similar to a 2500 but that's about it. You'll be doing a LOT of fabrication to make everything fit together, IF you can get it to fit together right. To buy a rolling chassis in my area is going to run you probably better than $5k just for that.

You could likely find a travel trailer with a very similar layout that your truck can handle safely, and sell your fifth wheel for more than you buy the travel trailer for.

Your truck, while maybe not what people look for in your area, is likely EXACTLY what someone further south is looking for. Or at least is willing to pay today's prices for. If you found yourself a truck yes a few years older, but of a 2500/3500 variety, you'd be able to keep your fifth wheel and run with it.

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I agree with this honestly, someone out there might be looking for a truck just like yours. It just isn’t safe to try and tow a fifth wheel or gooseneck with a 1500. While I feel for you on not wanting to hear that, it’s just the sad truth.

What I like about this forum is the ability to hear from many, many learned folks who have either done the research or have learned from the "school of hard knocks!" It makes me very nervous when folks try to "get by" by pushing the limits. I always told my kids, "if you walk on the very edge of the sidewalk right up next to the muddy ground, sooner or later you'll end up in the mud!" It seems to me that there are no financial, legal or rational solutions to the OP's situation. I know it happens many times, but I guess I'm glad I don't have travel plans to New England in the foreseeable future! Thanks to all who shared their knowledge and experiences!

oldguy2 said:

First please don't tell me to buy another truck. My present truck is a 2017 1500 2wd long bed standard cab 5.7 and 8 speed 3.21 and only 24000 miles. Being 2wd and standard cab it is not a popular model in N.E. and if I sold it I wouldn't get a very good price. I also have a 30 ft Cougar 5th wheel trailer (about 10,300lbs I think). What would it take to be able to tow the trailer with the truck distances of no more than 150 miles. I have been towing a tag along about 26 ft with no problem. I figure if I spend 2-3 thousand $ on this truck I would be better off than buying an older truck with a lot of miles on it. I am retired but was an auto mechanic for 30 years so I will be doing most of the work myself. My son also is a professional welder so that would not be a problem.

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Sorry if this is a repeat.

In any 4th (or 5th gen, for that matter) 1500, I've seen a piece of paper in the glovebox that informs the driver/owner that the vehicle is NOT rated for 5th wheel trailers.

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33-gallon fuel tank, factory dual exhaust, 18” wheels. Build date: 3 June 2018. Now at 78778 miles

There is only 1 brand of 5th wheel designed for 1500 class and THAT AINT ONE.... You are in the 2500 gas engine class or 3500 if you want a diesel engine.
NO IF AND OR BUTTS you are way over and are a hazard to others with that trailer on a 1500. It does not have the running gear i.e. brake, etc. to support that load.

I am going to tell you a painful lesson I learned the hard way; you may not care about resale value and plan to keep it forever, but when one idiot on a cell phone runs a red light and totals your truck, you quickly learn how important retaining resale value becomes.

Their insurance is going to look at the modifications you make, and determine that you severely devalued your truck. Then they will only offer a small fraction of what your truck is currently worth before modding, and you will not have the money to spend months or years fighting them in court without a replacement vehicle.

No matter how safe you are, someone who shouldn’t be driving will ruin your day and you will never get back the time and money you invest into modding, let alone the original value of the truck in order to get a replacement so you have transportation.

Listen to everyone hear; either trade for an older HD truck, or for a smaller trailer, and keep the peace of mind that you can recuperate the value of the vehicles and get on with your life when the **** hits the fan.