Spongy Brakes Even After Upgrade

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La Ramie

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So I had a spongy brakes feeling, wheel the pedal sinks before I can feel the brakes engaging and the truck stopping.

Since I’m working on the engine and transmission, I decided to work on the brakes and replace the stock ones with Power Stop Z36.

During installation, the lines were bled but upon testing we still have the spongy brakes pedal feeling.

We decided to replace the brake master cylinder with a manufactured part, but we still have the spongy feeling.

Now, the mechanic is telling me and due to the larger disc and caliber, I have to find a larger brake master cylinder.

I need your help here. Is the mechanic full of it? Or do I really need a higher performance and larger master cylinder? Is there such a thing for Ram? If so, can you please help me with the vendor or part number?
 

Burla

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It's air in the abs, yes he is full of it. Once you get air in there you need to have dealer flash the brakes, or whatever the term they use for that.
 
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La Ramie

La Ramie

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Is the flashing done using a computer? Because he’s done that before changing the first master cylinder
 

tron67j

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If I remember correctly the ABS system needs a scan tool to properly bleed the system. It does not work to just pump brakes and keep filling reservoir, the system has to be told to open and close internal parts. If your mechanic does not have the tool and a pressured vac system, you may need to travel to a place that does.
 

Burla

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Is the flashing done using a computer? Because he’s done that before changing the first master cylinder
He has to do it after your done not before, especially if air is in the abs. Put it this way, didnt he even suggest air in abs was a possibility? Not only possible but likely in any abs after a bleed that ends up spongy, happens 100's of times every day I'd wager.
 

Burla

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Even if you purge the air out, like the other guy said you need a scan tool to fix the abs. Air in brakes is always number one cause of any spongy brake, use the internet there are some other things, but those things mostly cause air that causes the sponge. Honestly, any mechanic worth 1/2 a **** would suggest so as well. You might want more oil psi ie master cylinder upgrade with newer upgraded calipers, but that would likely be a less visceral feeling then spongy which is flat dangerous.
 

caulk04

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He's trying to get rid of you. The Z36 kit is just pads and rotors in stock size, even the kit that includes caliPers are still stock size.
 
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La Ramie

La Ramie

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Or trying to make buy more parts.

I guess I’ll try another shop.
 

Dodge 1500 4X4

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As far as I know the dealer has the proper equipment to purge the ABS, your mechanic? should know this!!!
 
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La Ramie

La Ramie

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So my mechanic did try to purge the ABS system by an electronic equipment after installing the new brakes kit and again after replacing the master cylinder.
Still he can’t find the issue, except to get a larger master cylinder or a high performance one
 

DILLIGAF

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I ran the Powerstop kit on my 2012 no extra **** was needed.\ Your mechanic is full of ****.

I just used a Vacum Air Pump and bleed the system.
 

buckeyexx

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You definitely do not need a bigger master cylinder. What would a bigger one accomplish if the brake rotors, pads and calipers are same as the original? Not a thing! So don’t waste your money as you likely already did by replacing it in the first place. Take it to a more capable shop and have the brakes bled right. Your problem will likely be solved.
 

Jeepwalker

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Still sounds like air. I think you need a different guy doing your brakes. Brakes aren't THAT difficult to do. He missed something or isn't seeing a problem correctly. More than likely air was induced during the bleeding process ahead of the valve body ...in which case running through the bleed process wouldn't solve the 'sponginess' issue. He'd need to bleed any air bubble/s at least into or past the valve body, perform an ABS brake bleed, then procede to bleed the air out of the rest of the system. Sometimes it takes a couple ABS bleed procedures AND ...bleeding the brake system. If he just did the ABS bleed procedure and NOT a couple complete brake bleedings, then the air would (could) still be in the system.

When bleeding, pump the pedal slooooow ...and when you lift off the pedal, wait a split second between pumps. If the fluid gets real low, I've had it where the fluid jumps and air can get in. Probably what happened to you.
 
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Jeepwalker

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SS has it's own set off potential issues.
 

KansasArt

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If you engage the ABS on purpose, say hard stop on a empty road where you can feel the pedal pulsate would that be enough to push any air in the abs module out?
 

Jeepwalker

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If you engage the ABS on purpose, say hard stop on a empty road where you can feel the pedal pulsate would that be enough to push any air in the abs module out?

Yes. I've done it. It works. Good suggestion.

You might still have to bleed air out of the system if you moved air out from the ABS body and downstream into the brake lines. Air in the brakes is kind of like having bad indigestion.... if the bad stuff (air) is way up in the system (past the ABS), you still have to move it down and get it out of the lines. Like getting something down through your colon and out of your system. Once you get it out, you feel so much better. Same thing with your truck brakes (well sort of).
 
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Burla

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Where would that air go?
 
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