Does payload matter?

JerryETX · Jan 3, 2023

I'll admit this guy looks like he is considerably overloaded and I believe this is nothing more than an expensive educational moment for him. BUT payload is a real thing for this reason. Yes his frame did bend likely to due to being over payload.

I bet back in the day when I was a kid hauling firewood my Dad was close to doing this to his truck many times lol.

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mtofell · Jan 3, 2023

That bike (or whatever it is) hanging off the back exerts a lot of force on the frame at that distance and surely didn't help. I can't imagine that truck buckling with just the camper. Those DRW trucks are made for the heaviest of those.

JerryETX · Jan 3, 2023

mtofell said:
That bike (or whatever it is) hanging off the back exerts a lot of force on the frame at that distance and surely didn't help. I can't imagine that truck buckling with just the camper. Those DRW trucks are made for the heaviest of those.

That camper reportedly weighs around 6500 lbs loaded. That's not including any water they may have been carrying. And yep that bike weighs a lot more hanging off the back like that. There's also about an 800 lb front end replacement on the front of the truck that needs to be part of the payload rating. They drove that truck like that for 25k miles lol. It's a miracle it made it that long.

Expensive life lesson for them. Glad their poor judgement didn't cost them or anyone else more.

Zoe Saldana · Jan 3, 2023

JerryETX said:
I'll admit this guy looks like he is considerably overloaded and I believe this is nothing more than an expensive educational moment for him. BUT payload is a real thing for this reason. Yes his frame did bend likely to due to being over payload. How much over payload is unknown.

I bet back in the day when I was a kid hauling firewood my Dad was close to doing this to his truck many times lol.

Are New Heavy-Duty Trucks Cracking In Half? Here's What Happened To This One!

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What is missing are three great influences:

Weight distribution

Wind

Sway - right/left, front/back

Billet Bee · Jan 3, 2023

I've got 5200 lbs on my pin of a 27k fiver which puts me right on my trucks 14k gvwr, I can't imagine having 2000 more pounds back there then I do.
Im an old truck driver and not a big believer in pay load rating and mostly stick by axle ratings but I do at least try to stay close to that pl & gvwr, which obviously the driver of the truck bed camper did not even try to do and was Mis educated on his equipment and at the end of the day knowing your equipment is the responsibility of the driver. PERIOD
Everyone should know there units numbers and educate themselves thoroughly of its capabilities and limitations and don't take the word of a salesman or a drinking buddy down the rd.
Safe travels everyone

Zoe Saldana · Jan 3, 2023

Billet Bee said:
I've got 5200 lbs on my pin of a 27k fiver which puts me right on my trucks 14k gvwr, I can't imagine having 2000 more pounds back there then I do.
Im an old truck driver and not a big believer in pay load rating and mostly stick by axle ratings but I do at least try to stay close to that pl & gvwr, which obviously the driver of the truck bed camper did not even try to do and was Mis educated on his equipment and at the end of the day knowing your equipment is the responsibility of the driver. PERIOD
Everyone should know there units numbers and educate themselves thoroughly of its capabilities and limitations and don't take the word of a salesman or a drinking buddy down the rd.
Safe travels everyone

Aren't you over the payload?

https://www.ramtrucks.com/content/dam/fca-brands/na/ramtrucks/en_us/towing/Ram_HD_3500_D2_Trailer_Tow_Weight_Chart_MY20.pdf

Billet Bee · Jan 3, 2023

Zoe Saldana said:
Aren't you over the payload?

https://www.ramtrucks.com/content/dam/fca-brands/na/ramtrucks/en_us/towing/Ram_HD_3500_D2_Trailer_Tow_Weight_Chart_MY20.pdf

Nope, Im right on the money, posted 5200lb pl and that's what I've got on, also right on 14k gvwr too. I've weighed my set up at cat scales multiple times to get it just right, were full time rvers so I'm real particular about my equipment and how it's loadedn the 14k gvwr too. I've weighed my set up at cat scales multiple times to get it just right, were full time rvers so I'm real particular about my equipment and how it's loaded

SniperDroid · Jan 4, 2023

Billet Bee said:
View attachment 510652 Nope, Im right on the money, posted 5200lb pl and that's what I've got on, also right on 14k gvwr too. I've weighed my set up at cat scales multiple times to get it just right, were full time rvers so I'm real particular about my equipment and how it's loadedn the 14k gvwr too. I've weighed my set up at cat scales multiple times to get it just right, were full time rvers so I'm real particular about my equipment and how it's loaded

No Safety Cushion?

crash68 · Jan 4, 2023

SniperDroid said:
No Safety Cushion?

There's already a "safety cushion" in the ratings number why shy away from using it. Starting with the 2015 model year Ram is using the SAE J2807 for determining Tow/Haul capacities.
He's a former truck driver that knows a few things about how put the load on a vehicle correctly. The payload police can turn the lights and sirens off as there's nothing to see here

BossHogg · Jan 4, 2023

I think the only real solution is for dealerships, both truck, and RV, to have at least one person on staff to evaluate what people are going to buy and what they are going to tow it with. Manufacturers can publish all the numbers till the cows come home but people won't read the information or, as in this case, misinterpret the data. Internet forums will continue to debate the published ratings to the point it becomes useless (search payload threads in this forum).

I recall when my wife and I were shopping for a fifth-wheel RV, the salesman asked what we have to tow with, I said a one-ton, and he said wow, you can tow anything I got on the lot. Well, that wasn't true, my 3500 wasn't going to tow a tri-axel toy hauler or a half dozen other RVs they had.

The next time a payload thread comes along, sit back and watch the comments, simply amazing, some of the replies are just amazing.

This guy with the folded 3500, I have to wonder what was inside the slide-in and how much weight was in the rear of the camper. I don't understand how he could steer the truck, it looks as if he had little weight on the steer axle. Another thought is the payload, we typically think of payload as downward weight, but in this case, how does fulcrum leverage play into the payload ratings?

SniperDroid · Jan 4, 2023

crash68 said:
There's already a "safety cushion" in the ratings number why shy away from using it. Starting with the 2015 model year Ram is using the SAE J2807 for determining Tow/Haul capacities.
He's a former truck driver that knows a few things about how put the load on a vehicle correctly. The payload police can turn the lights and sirens of as there's nothing to see here

Really? Apparently the guy with the busted truck thought so, as well... I'll leave some leeway in the numbers for my own personal safety.

crash68 · Jan 4, 2023

SniperDroid said:
Really? Apparently the guy with the busted truck thought so, as well... I'll leave some leeway in the numbers for my own personal safety.

Yeah really, and the guy's truck who snapped in half had no clue to where he was at with his weigh or how anything was loaded
If you want to leave money on the table, that up to you

Daw14 · Jan 4, 2023

BossHogg said:
I think the only real solution is for dealerships, both truck, and RV, to have at least one person on staff to evaluate what people are going to buy and what they are going to tow it with. Manufacturers can publish all the numbers till the cows come home but people won't read the information or, as in this case, misinterpret the data. Internet forums will continue to debate the published ratings to the point it becomes useless (search payload threads in this forum).

I recall when my wife and I were shopping for a fifth-wheel RV, the salesman asked what we have to tow with, I said a one-ton, and he said wow, you can tow anything I got on the lot. Well, that wasn't true, my 3500 wasn't going to tow a tri-axel toy hauler or a half dozen other RVs they had.

The next time a payload thread comes along, sit back and watch the comments, simply amazing, some of the replies are just amazing.

This guy with the folded 3500, I have to wonder what was inside the slide-in and how much weight was in the rear of the camper. I don't understand how he could steer the truck, it looks as if he had little weight on the steer axle. Another thought is the payload, we typically think of payload as downward weight, but in this case, how does fulcrum leverage play into the payload ratings?

Makes one think how did that steer rolling over those bumpy roads in Baja, the front tires were probably leaving the ground .

JerryETX · Jan 4, 2023

BossHogg said:
I think the only real solution is for dealerships, both truck, and RV, to have at least one person on staff to evaluate what people are going to buy and what they are going to tow it with. Manufacturers can publish all the numbers till the cows come home but people won't read the information or, as in this case, misinterpret the data. Internet forums will continue to debate the published ratings to the point it becomes useless (search payload threads in this forum).

I recall when my wife and I were shopping for a fifth-wheel RV, the salesman asked what we have to tow with, I said a one-ton, and he said wow, you can tow anything I got on the lot. Well, that wasn't true, my 3500 wasn't going to tow a tri-axel toy hauler or a half dozen other RVs they had.

The next time a payload thread comes along, sit back and watch the comments, simply amazing, some of the replies are just amazing.

This guy with the folded 3500, I have to wonder what was inside the slide-in and how much weight was in the rear of the camper. I don't understand how he could steer the truck, it looks as if he had little weight on the steer axle. Another thought is the payload, we typically think of payload as downward weight, but in this case, how does fulcrum leverage play into the payload ratings?

Not sure how you can hold a dealer accountable on sales day for what the buyer may or may not haul in the future. I do think RV dealers need to have ALL sales staff educated to what a tow vehicle can realistically haul. But that won't happen until there's a way to hold RV dealers liable for accidents due to their misleading and often absolutely false information.

JerryETX · Jan 4, 2023

SniperDroid said:
Really? Apparently the guy with the busted truck thought so, as well... I'll leave some leeway in the numbers for my own personal safety.

The guy with the snapped frame was approximately 2 GRAND over payload! 2 GRAND lol. And he drove it like that for 25,000 miles before this happened. No cushion is going to save that.

Irishthreeper · Jan 4, 2023

JerryETX said:
Not sure how you can hold a dealer accountable on sales day for what the buyer may or may not haul in the future. I do think RV dealers need to have ALL sales staff educated to what a tow vehicle can realistically haul. But that won't happen until there's a way to hold RV dealers liable for accidents due to their misleading and often absolutely false information.

Agreed! At least one manufacturer has “Half Ton” printed right on the nose of some of their 5W’s….and the pin weight starts around 1550 lbs. Totally irresponsible

JerryETX · Jan 4, 2023

Irishthreeper said:
Agreed! At least one manufacturer has “Half Ton” printed right on the nose of some of their 5W’s….and the pin weight starts around 1550 lbs. Totally irresponsible

Yep and that's the "printed" pin weight. Not really a betting man but I'd almost bet that's not actual pin weight.

Billet Bee · Jan 4, 2023

SniperDroid said:
No Safety Cushion?

Plus we all know that these vehicles can handle much more then there ratings, within reason of coarse, but if the manufacturer ( who under rates everything on the side of cation so folks in the camper truck picture aren't a danger to there own stupidity) puts there ratings and put there sticker on the vehicle for the general public to adhere to , then anywhere in there numbers range is going to be operating safely or they would be liable for law suites and miss representation of operating safely. No way are they going to produce and sell to the masses a vehicle that is on the ragged edge and with no safety cushion when your at there max rating.
Based on my research and experience on the matter is the safety cushion is between 14k and both gawr combined and you know without a shadow of a doubt that truck camper picture was way over 9750 on the rear axle, probably between 11-12k somewhere. My rear axle is 1k under the 9750 rating so that's my safety margin. ✌

JerryETX · Jan 4, 2023

Billet Bee said:
Based on my research and experience on the matter is the safety cushion is between 14k and both gawr combined and you know without a shadow of a doubt that truck camper picture was way over 9750 on the rear axle, probably between 11-12k somewhere. My rear axle is 1k under the 9750 rating so that's my safety margin. ✌

Yep gotta agree. Payload does matter in my opinion but rear axle weight matters more than payload.

As I mentioned earlier as a kid growing up my Dad always drove half ton trucks. No possible way I can remember all the times we had his truck loaded down with firewood or rocks or gravel, etc. Loaded to the point the top of the tires were hidden by the bed squat. Never went more than 30 miles or so like this and he always drove slow (mainly because he could turn the steering wheel and it would still go straight) but I can only imagine how overloaded we were in every category. He never even had a rear end go out on his trucks.

Zoe Saldana · Jan 4, 2023

Billet Bee said:
View attachment 510652 Nope, Im right on the money, posted 5200lb pl and that's what I've got on, also right on 14k gvwr too. I've weighed my set up at cat scales multiple times to get it just right, were full time rvers so I'm real particular about my equipment and how it's loadedn the 14k gvwr too. I've weighed my set up at cat scales multiple times to get it just right, were full time rvers so I'm real particular about my equipment and how it's loaded

Technically over.

You said your pin weight was 5,200lbs which is your payload.

But you need to subtract the weight of passengers and all the stuff you added to the truck e.g. 30k MoparPuck Fiver Hitch w/ Black Line X Tube Steps & Below Rail Lund Toolbox and a Bak flip mx4 Cover ... and everything else.

Does payload matter?

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