Does payload matter?

Billet Bee · Jan 5, 2023

KKBB said:
I'm just curious. Do any of you here that are saying he should have had the regular cab 2WD hemi version to have the payload to handle this think that would solve the problem?? I have a tough time believing that would solve the issue.

The heaviest pl weight rating that I can find on a regular cab 4x2 long bed hemi stripped down tradesman model is 7680, that most of us know how fast that disappears on added items like tool box or auxiliary tank, step bars or tonnue cover.

JerryETX · Jan 6, 2023

18CrewDually said:
He needs a lesson in CG (Center of Gravity). Even if he was at or a little below "payload limit", you can't hang majority of the weight off the backend of the truck.

View attachment 510767

Bingo

gofishn · Jan 6, 2023

18CrewDually said:
He needs a lesson in CG (Center of Gravity). Even if he was at or a little below "payload limit", you can't hang majority of the weight off the backend of the truck.

View attachment 510767

And THAT, is exactly what happened.
He placed a Slider camper, that peaked out his load, then added a Motorcycle to the rear of the camper.
Doing so, moved his center of gravity 'Zone', from the very center of rear axle & forward. to rear of rear axle and over it. With very little, if any, of the weight being forward, of the rear axle. In effect, turning the rear axle into a Fulcrum.

Now, every single, tiny bump in the road is going to cause that weight to stress the metal of the frame. when the weight being carried is at the limit or, far more likely, over the limits, the frame will give, as depicted.

Seen it, for decades, with tilt capable, flat bed car haulers, when the truck frame is stretched to accomodate the beds length. Bed rolls backward, off truck frame, then tilts down to teh ground. Vehcile is loaded up on bed and they start moving the bed back up onto truck. Once that bed end lifts off the ground, now the truck frame is bearing all that weight, while bed is still extended out, almost its full length and frame just gives.

I have no doubt the guy truly believes he did his research.
Lots of folks 'think' they know stuff, that is absolutely Nuts.

I just wonder if anyone ever tried to tell the guy that he was setting himself up for Disaster, only for him to reply, I think i know what I'm doing. I've been doing it for 25K miles.

See it here, on this forum, all the time.

tron67j · Jan 6, 2023

olyelr said:
Not that it really matters, but its not a mega cab shortbox, its a crew cab long box.

I think that is a short bed, the picture shadow under the camper could be deceiving me.

However, he has too much mass behind the rear axle that we can see (plus who knows what liquids and other gear are there), and he possibly hit enough of a bump that the up/down exceeded the strength of the frame to resist bending.

If insurance pays for this, it becomes the poster child for why insurance is so expensive; paying for willful ignorance.

18CrewDually · Jan 6, 2023

tron67j said:
I think that is a short bed, the picture shadow under the camper could be deceiving me.

Nope. 8' box crew cab dually.

crash68 · Jan 7, 2023

tron67j said:
I think that is a short bed, the picture shadow under the camper could be deceiving me.

Look at the distance from the front of the bed to the fuel filler door, a short bed (6.4') would be about 12" back, a long bed (8') is about 24" back.

olyelr · Jan 7, 2023

They dont produce a crew cab shortbed with the dually…the shortbed is only on the megacab.

sam darakjy · Jan 9, 2023

JerryETX said:
I'll admit this guy looks like he is considerably overloaded and I believe this is nothing more than an expensive educational moment for him. BUT payload is a real thing for this reason. Yes his frame did bend likely to due to being over payload.

I bet back in the day when I was a kid hauling firewood my Dad was close to doing this to his truck many times lol.

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For those of us with truck campers payload is everything and towing means nothing.

Sherman Bird · Jan 9, 2023

JerryETX said:
That camper reportedly weighs around 6500 lbs loaded. That's not including any water they may have been carrying. And yep that bike weighs a lot more hanging off the back like that. There's also about an 800 lb front end replacement on the front of the truck that needs to be part of the payload rating. They drove that truck like that for 25k miles lol. It's a miracle it made it that long.

Expensive life lesson for them. Glad their poor judgement didn't cost them or anyone else more.

I saw an accident just outside of Forest, Mississippi in 1987. An S-10 Chevy, pulling an Airstream about 25 feet long went off the road, trailer first. I thought, and still do, that the trailer outweighed the truck.

JerryETX · Jan 9, 2023

Sherman Bird said:
I saw an accident just outside of Forest, Mississippi in 1987. An S-10 Chevy, pulling an Airstream about 25 feet long went off the road, trailer first. I thought, and still do, that the trailer outweighed the truck.

Yeah Airstreams are heavy and back then I believe they only made the ones that start at 24 feet. I've seen small SUV's pulling the short Airstream's but they're only probably 16 feet. Doesn't make it right by no means. Not out of the ordinary for a trailer to outweigh the tow vehicle (my 2500 weighs about 6300 lbs. and my travel trailer weighs 10,500) but a mid-size truck pulling a heavy Airstream is an absolute no.

xracer · Jan 9, 2023

JerryETX said:
The guy with the snapped frame was approximately 2 GRAND over payload! 2 GRAND lol. And he drove it like that for 25,000 miles before this happened. No cushion is going to save that.

Tunaman · Jan 9, 2023

Obviously over payload but even more important weight distribution!!! Somewhere along the way you need to use your head!!

2Tallguy · Jan 9, 2023

Zoe Saldana said:
What is missing are three great influences:

Weight distribution

Wind

Sway - right/left, front/back

Plus Baja roads.

Dusty · Jan 10, 2023

In a more recent article the owner contends he WAS NOT over the payload limit, even though the figure he quotes and the factory specs makes it obvious that he was.

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33-gallon fuel tank, factory dual exhaust, 18” wheels. Build date: 3 June 2018. Now at 82992 miles

Mittens · Jan 10, 2023

18CrewDually said:
He needs a lesson in CG (Center of Gravity). Even if he was at or a little below "payload limit", you can't hang majority of the weight off the backend of the truck.

View attachment 510767

I was going to mention (ask about) this. "Payload" has some definition, and it's not "anything that fits in the bed." Just a quick torque calc of the bike about the rear axle:
200 lbs, 10' behind axle = 1000 lbs, 2' behind axle = 2000 lbs 1' behind axle.
Your pic says that cg should be in front of the axle (makes sense), so having cg behind the axle puts a completely reversed torque on the frame than intended. I'd think that's a bigger issue than pl.

Edit: Max tongue weight might be good to know too. 10% good rule of thumb? So 2k at 5' for fully loaded?

18CrewDually · Jan 10, 2023

Mittens said:
I was going to mention (ask about) this. "Payload" has some definition, and it's not "anything that fits in the bed." Just a quick torque calc of the bike about the rear axle:
200 lbs, 10' behind axle = 1000 lbs, 2' behind axle = 2000 lbs 1' behind axle.
Your pic says that cg should be in front of the axle (makes sense), so having cg behind the axle puts a completely reversed torque on the frame than intended. I'd think that's a bigger issue than pl.

Your thinking is correct and why warranty denied the claim. It was abuse. People are hung up on payload because that's all you hear about and all they know. CG is a whole new dimension for alot of people so it's easier for them to blame the root cause on what they know instead of recognizing the combination of errors, with the main being CG.

SniperDroid · Jan 10, 2023

If we had a VIN or a picture of the door sticker, all this back and forth would be moot...

18CrewDually · Jan 10, 2023

SniperDroid said:
If we had a VIN or a picture of the door sticker, all this back and forth would be moot...

Don't matter. The pictures tell it pretty clear, CG was way off.

SniperDroid · Jan 10, 2023

18CrewDually said:
Don't matter. The pictures tell it pretty clear, CG was way off.

Oh, none of it really matters... trucks broke, and only thing that does it that way is TOO MUCH WEIGHT!

JerryETX · Jan 10, 2023

SniperDroid said:
trucks broke, and only thing that does it that way is TOO MUCH WEIGHT!

Yes sir!

Does payload matter?

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