8hp70 tcm?

danielmid · Jan 19, 2023

Ram1683 said:
That's kind of where I was worried. I wasn't completely sure if I needed to swap TCM to another trans because they're married. What's alfa?

AlfaOBD

Please Read!!! Supported years: 2013 to 2018 Make a backup of your original BCM configuration before making any changes. While we have a few BCM configs to compare with, there is nothing like comparing to your own pre-changes. Instructions: Uploading System ID (BCM) Information: Thank you...

www.ramforum.com

Software that can edit settings in the truck's various computers with an Android app and a specific bluetooth obd2 reader.

1SLwLS1 · Jan 19, 2023

Are you swapped or are you OE 8HP70?

If you do switch to HP Tuners, make sure the TCM you're using is the one you're going to use as the $200 credits (for the 8HP70 alone) are tied to the serial number, meaning if you swap transmissions down the road, take the licensed TCM and put on the valvebody of the replacement transmission.

Ram1683 · Jan 19, 2023

1SLwLS1 said:
Are you swapped or are you OE 8HP70?

If you do switch to HP Tuners, make sure the TCM you're using is the one you're going to use as the $200 credits (for the 8HP70 alone) are tied to the serial number, meaning if you swap transmissions down the road, take the licensed TCM and put on the valvebody of the replacement transmission.

Truck is originally 8HP70. I'm still lost on this HP tuner stuff. Is this done with a laptop?

joesstripclub · Jan 19, 2023

I have seen some chatter about some of the older 8 speeds experiencing torque converter issues. There was a thread on here somewhere where a guy posted some logs of his transmission but I dont know if there was ever a resolution to his issues. I think under normal operation the TC locks up around 3rd gear and stays locked, so if your TC is having trouble staying locked that would definitely cause some flared shifting.

1SLwLS1 · Jan 19, 2023

Did it just randomly start acting up or?

Both tunes are created/modified on the computer but with DiabloSport, the tune is put on your device and then flashed to your vehicle's computer(s). With HP Tuners, using the MPVI (required OBD device) you flash the tune from the computer through the MPVI to the vehicle's computer(s).

I only have experience with DiabloSport and logging back when I had the 5.7 and stock 65RFE, but now with the 392 and 8HP70 on HP Tuners, you can log shift ID which is one of the MANY tables the TCM uses to shift based upon various conditions. If you have the capability to log that with your DiabloSport device, I would suggest identifying the shift IDs and see if they're the correct tables. Again, most of this advice is based upon my experience with HP Tuners, I am not sure how capable the DiabloSport is with logging the 8HP70 (I still use my Trinity to monitor/alert ECM parameters).

Ram1683 · Jan 19, 2023

joesstripclub said:
I have seen some chatter about some of the older 8 speeds experiencing torque converter issues. There was a thread on here somewhere where a guy posted some logs of his transmission but I dont know if there was ever a resolution to his issues. I think under normal operation the TC locks up around 3rd gear and stays locked, so if your TC is having trouble staying locked that would definitely cause some flared shifting.

That was another thing that crossed my mind. Apparently this thing would lock the converter even in 1st. I'm new to diagnostics on These. I was a VW tech for a few years but when those ZF's had issues VW just said warranty the unit

joesstripclub · Jan 19, 2023

Ram1683 said:
That was another thing that crossed my mind. Apparently this thing would lock the converter even in 1st. I'm new to diagnostics on These. I was a VW tech for a few years but when those ZF's had issues VW just said warranty the unit

Nobody wants to rebuild transmissions anymore, its just throw it away and replace it. Someone just started a thread in the General Discussion section about torque converter replacement, might be worth following.

Ram1683 · Jan 19, 2023

1SLwLS1 said:
Did it just randomly start acting up or?

Both tunes are created/modified on the computer but with DiabloSport, the tune is put on your device and then flashed to your vehicle's computer(s). With HP Tuners, using the MPVI (required OBD device) you flash the tune from the computer through the MPVI to the vehicle's computer(s).

I only have experience with DiabloSport and logging back when I had the 5.7 and stock 65RFE, but now with the 392 and 8HP70 on HP Tuners, you can log shift ID which is one of the MANY tables the TCM uses to shift based upon various conditions. If you have the capability to log that with your DiabloSport device, I would suggest identifying the shift IDs and see if they're the correct tables. Again, most of this advice is based upon my experience with HP Tuners, I am not sure how capable the DiabloSport is with logging the 8HP70 (I still use my Trinity to monitor/alert ECM parameters).

It's basically been acting up since I bought the truck at 65K. It's been to 2 different aamco shops and they both tell me it's normal. ‍

. I did the zip kit hoping that helped but nothing. The box diablosport tune helped then the hemifever cleaning it up more but it's only getting worse now. I'm going to put it back up in the air later and double check fluid level but I have a feeling it's fine. I'm going to look in to the HP components. The diablosport can log but as far as digging in to the log I have no clue how I would even do that

1SLwLS1 · Jan 19, 2023

Assuming you have the stock converter, I would double check fluid level as you mentioned, and try flashing the stock tune back to see if that improves and follow process of elimination.

As far as temperature goes, I have the Valvoline stuff with no thermostat and no heater on my transmission, the fluid runs to the cooler 100% of the time, and mine shifts great, but I have no real frame of reference for 185F fluid shifts (maybe they're even better...?). My transmission fluid temperature when ambient is cold (for Texas), is usually sub 100F and around 100F when hot/warm and 120F only when abusing it with the 3600 stall.

Ram1683 · Jan 19, 2023

1SLwLS1 said:
Assuming you have the stock converter, I would double check fluid level as you mentioned, and try flashing the stock tune back to see if that improves and follow process of elimination.

As far as temperature goes, I have the Valvoline stuff with no thermostat and no heater on my transmission, the fluid runs to the cooler 100% of the time, and mine shifts great, but I have no real frame of reference for 185F fluid shifts (maybe they're even better...?). My transmission fluid temperature when ambient is cold (for Texas), is usually sub 100F and around 100F when hot/warm and 120F only when abusing it with the 3600 stall.

View attachment 511819

That's where I was as far as temperatures with the cooler bypassed and the thermostat deleted. I called ZF and they told me anything below a 100 I'm probably going to experience shifting issues. When I deleted all that originally the shifts were nice and positive Even though I was still experiencing flares now and then. Is that JB Weld on those ports?

1SLwLS1 · Jan 19, 2023

I had a few weird issues when I was on the Ram TCM calibration and low temperature fluid - locked out of OD when high speed WOT runs and had to slow down to below 75 for it to shift, or a weird slip/jerk shift on the 3-4 shift like the torque converter was slipping in 3rd and suddenly locked up when shifting to 4th. Another weird thing it would do is when going WOT from a dig, it would shift at 6200 (as tuned) but when doing a downshift WOT run, it would shift well under 6K.

I am running a used 8HP70 that was flooded or sat outside ruining all of the fluid so I couldn't clearly pinpoint the cause of those unique issues (fluid or bad transmission or cottage cheese within the fluid passages, etc.) I recently flashed the challenger scat pack configuration to enable manual shifting, fixing the first issue, but the second issue immediately went away so that is not temperature related. When researching how to tune this thing, I discovered all of the shift tables that it uses to decide when/how to shift.

For my 1st issue, the OD lockout, this is 100% a temperature issue. The TCM uses tables (shift IDs) 30/31 for warmup which enables the 6-7 shift at 6600 RPM output shaft speed (6600 engine RPM) for all throttle positions, which means it won't shift from 6 to 7th unless I am going 164 MPH at 6600 RPM when in the warmup mode. The 7-8th shift is set at 7857 OSS (6600 engine RPM) for all throttle positions as well. So that is a low temperature issue but it only engages those shift IDs when going WOT above 80 MPH, under normal acceleration and driving, that condition wouldn't exist.

For my setup (3600 stall), the jerky shift was caused by the torque converter clutch engagement as suspected and fixed when I changed calibrations to sport mode so I don't have that issue anymore - it was not temperature related.

My 3rd issue, WOT shift points for varying conditions. There are 4 tables that control shift points when downshifting and going WOT and those were not set at 6200 RPM like the standard tables were, which is why it was short shifting. Again, this was not temperature related.

For the low temperature concerns, the only issues affected by temperature can be solved by changing the shift points of those warmup tables, I believe. I haven't experienced any other issues, the transmission shifts great and is a blast to drive.

As for the coolant ports on the factory thermostatic housing, yes, that is JB weld. I tapped those holes and put a set-screw in there to block the passages. The JB Weld is simply backup, the set screw blocks those passages.

Ram1683 · Jan 19, 2023

1SLwLS1 said:
I had a few weird issues when I was on the Ram TCM calibration and low temperature fluid - locked out of OD when high speed WOT runs and had to slow down to below 75 for it to shift, or a weird slip/jerk shift on the 3-4 shift like the torque converter was slipping in 3rd and suddenly locked up when shifting to 4th. Another weird thing it would do is when going WOT from a dig, it would shift at 6200 (as tuned) but when doing a downshift WOT run, it would shift well under 6K.

I am running a used 8HP70 that was flooded or sat outside ruining all of the fluid so I couldn't clearly pinpoint the cause of those unique issues (fluid or bad transmission or cottage cheese within the fluid passages, etc.) I recently flashed the challenger scat pack configuration to enable manual shifting, fixing the first issue, but the second issue immediately went away so that is not temperature related. When researching how to tune this thing, I discovered all of the shift tables that it uses to decide when/how to shift.

For my 1st issue, the OD lockout, this is 100% a temperature issue. The TCM uses tables (shift IDs) 30/31 for warmup which enables the 6-7 shift at 6600 RPM output shaft speed (6600 engine RPM) for all throttle positions, which means it won't shift from 6 to 7th unless I am going 164 MPH at 6600 RPM when in the warmup mode. The 7-8th shift is set at 7857 OSS (6600 engine RPM) for all throttle positions as well. So that is a low temperature issue but it only engages those shift IDs when going WOT above 80 MPH, under normal acceleration and driving, that condition wouldn't exist.

For my setup (3600 stall), the jerky shift was caused by the torque converter clutch engagement as suspected and fixed when I changed calibrations to sport mode so I don't have that issue anymore - it was not temperature related.

My 3rd issue, WOT shift points for varying conditions. There are 4 tables that control shift points when downshifting and going WOT and those were not set at 6200 RPM like the standard tables were, which is why it was short shifting. Again, this was not temperature related.

For the low temperature concerns, the only issues affected by temperature can be solved by changing the shift points of those warmup tables, I believe. I haven't experienced any other issues, the transmission shifts great and is a blast to drive.

As for the coolant ports on the factory thermostatic housing, yes, that is JB weld. I tapped those holes and put a set-screw in there to block the passages. The JB Weld is simply backup, the set screw blocks those passages.

Wow There's definitely a lot more to it than I ever thought. Thank you for all that. Everything you guys right on here I learn more and more. 164mph lol, Even if I could get the truck that fast I'm pretty sure it would break up like the space shuttle losing tiles. Even on the coldest days here in NJ Trans was maybe in the 60s it would shift all the way to 8th but still not act right. In my head I'm thinking the factory programming will only let it do so much at a lower temperature. That's why I put the warmer back on hoping For some kind of improvement. I'm fairly confident my zip kit did more harm than good So for the same price as a valve body I could just grab a low mileage unit. I was just emailing dodgeboy about a tune. So once I get things sorted out here, scoop up I need from HP and learn it a little bit ill have him do a tune.

t0ymach1n3 · Jan 19, 2023

AlfaOBD is one the greatest tools you can have for your Ram, hands down. IT can't do everything, but it opens up a whole other world of possibilities to what you can do to or with your Ram.

It's available for Android and Windows. You'll also need a decent OBD2 dongle to be able to connect AlfaOBD to the vehicle to do things like update the VIN on the PCM, TCM or even program some new key fobs for your truck.

Ram1683 · Jan 20, 2023

t0ymach1n3 said:
AlfaOBD is one the greatest tools you can have for your Ram, hands down. IT can't do everything, but it opens up a whole other world of possibilities to what you can do to or with your Ram.

It's available for Android and Windows. You'll also need a decent OBD2 dongle to be able to connect AlfaOBD to the vehicle to do things like update the VIN on the PCM, TCM or even program some new key fobs for your truck.

I just looked that up and I have seen that before. Most expensive app I've seen yet but I'll bet it's worth it.

Ram1683 · Jan 20, 2023

This thing is harder to figure out than a woman. Put it back up in the air and i double checked the fluid at temperature, Perfect. Pulled a battery terminal for another hour. Then I reloaded the hemifever trans tune. Now granted.. my ride home from my buddy shop is only about 10 minutes but it's mostly 35MPH with stops. I couldn't ask for a better shifting trans. Halfway home I actually busted out laughing to myself with the difference between last night and today. Honestly I don't have high hopes for tomorrow. I'll take it for a spin tomorrow afternoon And see where I stand. Fingers crossed

t0ymach1n3 · Jan 20, 2023

Ram1683 said:
This thing is harder to figure out than a woman. Put it back up in the air and i double checked the fluid at temperature, Perfect. Pulled a battery terminal for another hour. Then I reloaded the hemifever trans tune. Now granted.. my ride home from my buddy shop is only about 10 minutes but it's mostly 35MPH with stops. I couldn't ask for a better shifting trans. Halfway home I actually busted out laughing to myself with the difference between last night and today. Honestly I don't have high hopes for tomorrow. I'll take it for a spin tomorrow afternoon And see where I stand. Fingers crossed

You're gonna love it man. I know I had a smile from ear to ear for a good week with how much of a difference and improvement the 8HP70 was over the 65RFE. Don't get me wrong, the 65RFE is a decent trans for putting around and doing adult stuff, but the 8HP70 means you can do adult stuff, and with the press of a pedal, do some hood rat ****.
Get to a stop sign or stop light and come to a complete stop. Turn the traction control off, hands at 10 and 2, and freakin punch it as soon as you can safely. That dig from a dead stop will tell you everything you need to know lol

t0ymach1n3 · Jan 20, 2023

Ram1683 said:
This thing is harder to figure out than a woman. Put it back up in the air and i double checked the fluid at temperature, Perfect. Pulled a battery terminal for another hour. Then I reloaded the hemifever trans tune. Now granted.. my ride home from my buddy shop is only about 10 minutes but it's mostly 35MPH with stops. I couldn't ask for a better shifting trans. Halfway home I actually busted out laughing to myself with the difference between last night and today. Honestly I don't have high hopes for tomorrow. I'll take it for a spin tomorrow afternoon And see where I stand. Fingers crossed

Lucky! I did mine in my apartment complex parking lot over a little over a week. I so wish I had a lift or at minimum access to a shop with a lift. I'm getting old and can't crawl around like the good ol days.

1SLwLS1 · Jan 20, 2023

t0ymach1n3 said:
You're gonna love it man. I know I had a smile from ear to ear for a good week with how much of a difference and improvement the 8HP70 was over the 65RFE. Don't get me wrong, the 65RFE is a decent trans for putting around and doing adult stuff, but the 8HP70 means you can do adult stuff, and with the press of a pedal, do some hood rat ****.
Get to a stop sign or stop light and come to a complete stop. Turn the traction control off, hands at 10 and 2, and freakin punch it as soon as you can safely. That dig from a dead stop will tell you everything you need to know lol

He is not swapped, FYI

Ram1683 said:
This thing is harder to figure out than a woman. Put it back up in the air and i double checked the fluid at temperature, Perfect. Pulled a battery terminal for another hour. Then I reloaded the hemifever trans tune. Now granted.. my ride home from my buddy shop is only about 10 minutes but it's mostly 35MPH with stops. I couldn't ask for a better shifting trans. Halfway home I actually busted out laughing to myself with the difference between last night and today. Honestly I don't have high hopes for tomorrow. I'll take it for a spin tomorrow afternoon And see where I stand. Fingers crossed

What kind of lift is that? Are you able to tilt it forward to get the trans pan rail level or do you raise the rear level with another device?

Ram1683 · Jan 20, 2023

1SLwLS1 said:
He is not swapped, FYI

What kind of lift is that? Are you able to tilt it forward to get the trans pan rail level or do you raise the rear level with another device?

It's made by hunter. Yea it's got 2 center rolling pneumatic lifts. It'll get my truck about 8" off the table. I put a level on the trans to make sure. It's designed for alignments but you buy one by itself. I'm buying a house this year and I don't care if it hasn't been updated from the 60s, it just needs enough room for one of those lifts

Ram1683 · Jan 20, 2023

Also to anybody that's tired of burning your hands matco makes an awesome shallow set of allens. Best way to get drain and fill plugs out

8hp70 tcm?

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