Possibly totaled my truck

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Docwagon1776

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Wait, you mean you thought it was cool to both speed and put lights and sirens on a personal vehicle. What were you thinking? You should know that's not ok. As far as the actual fire truck I totally feel for that situation! Especially the injured responders! Your truck itself, however, not so much. I'm happy you weren't injured, but honestly you should be ticketed for both driving and setting your personal truck up to represent an emergency vehicle.

Generally speaking, nothing in the law requires an emergency vehicle to be a fleet vehicle or owned by the agency. Instead it requires authorization from the agency and it must conform to the state definition of emergency vehicle in terms of colored lights (for example, my state reserves all blues for volunteer fire, you could not have blues and reds), siren, etc.

There are a non-zero number of small or rural police departments where the reserves use private vehicles and it's very common among volunteer fire and ems members, although in my state they can use lights but no sirens and can't exceed the posted speed limit even during an "emergency" response.

I work for a very large agency, one that is self-insured, and occasionally during very poor weather conditions officers have been authorized POVs for on duty work and the agency picks up the liability for that time frame.
 
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Forestry_Ridge

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But I do understand. Been there and done that. Just hope everyone comes through it ok and it's a learning experience for everyone.
Got to treat everything as a learning experience. No day is the same and everything is a chance to learn from. The section of rural highway I’m referring to is in northern Idaho near Potlatch.
 
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Generally speaking, nothing in the law requires an emergency vehicle to be a fleet vehicle or owned by the agency. Instead it requires authorization from the agency and it must conform to the state definition of emergency vehicle in terms of colored lights (for example, my state reserves all blues for volunteer fire, you could not have blues and reds), siren, etc.

There are a non-zero number of small or rural police departments where the reserves use private vehicles and it's very common among volunteer fire and ems members, although in my state they can use lights but no sirens and can't exceed the posted speed limit even during an "emergency" response.

I work for a very large agency, one that is self-insured, and occasionally during very poor weather conditions officers have been authorized POVs for on duty work and the agency picks up the liability for that time frame.
We can go five over based off our department policy if deemed prudent and necessary, though I don’t think I’ve actually heard of anyone doing that since I’ve been a member. Luckily the top speed in the state for a highway is 75(80 for a few random spurts) though again it really depends on weather conditions. Like currently we’d be doing 45 tops on that same stretch of road due to weather conditions.
 

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I find that question a bit crude, two people are in hospitals, because some ****** pulls out in front of fire truck, would not have matter what speed
Here poeple are to slow down to 60KM when passing emergency vehicles, or highway workers
Most don’t 2 or3 yrs ago a young girl flag person was killed because a driver was too damn important to bother stopping
They did toss the worthless piece is **** in jail, but not long enough
A towe truck driver was killed helping a women in a storm
5 yrs ago I was slammed at highway speeds by a driver while he played with his phone while I was stopped in a construction zone
I have never seen emergency units drive bad
Maybe if you where in a wreck you would be wondering why they don’t hurry up???

First I understand where you're coming from but no this is not crude at all, it's finding out the facts. Say the limit of 45-55mph (typical for many state highways), the 75-80mph has a much bigger difference if this is the case. Also emergency vehicles should operate under the due regard which is defined as how a "reasonably careful person, performing under similar circumstances would act in the same manor...
My next questions would be what was the weather like that day. Snow and ice, rain? What is this road like with traffic patterns for time of day? Are there lots of cross intersection in this area? These all come into what is an acceptable speed. There maybe times where the fastest an emergency vehicle can travel is less than the speed limit. There is limited info in the post so asking these questions is to get a better understanding of the situation.

Most of the time operators of emergency units do drive fine, and things can still happen. We receive lots of training on driving alone. Normally it is other drivers that are the cause... But, unfortunately like with any job there are always those that are the exception.

Lastly, once in the legal system everything will be looked a under a microscope. Maintenance, road conditions, training for all involved not just driving training. These are just a few of what will be scrutinized.

To the OP glad you and the others are coming out of this ok, for the most part. Best of luck and a quick recovery to all involved.
 
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Forestry_Ridge

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First I understand where you're coming from but no this is not crude at all, it's finding out the facts. Say the limit of 45-55mph (typical for many state highways), the 75-80mph has a much bigger difference if this is the case. Also emergency vehicles should operate under the due regard which is defined as how a "reasonably careful person, performing under similar circumstances would act in the same manor...
My next questions would be what was the weather like that day. Snow and ice, rain? What is this road like with traffic patterns for time of day? Are there lots of cross intersection in this area? These all come into what is an acceptable speed. There maybe times where the fastest an emergency vehicle can travel is less than the speed limit. There is limited info in the post so asking these questions is to get a better understanding of the situation.

Most of the time operators of emergency units do drive fine, and things can still happen. We receive lots of training on driving alone. Normally it is other drivers that are the cause... But, unfortunately like with any job there are always those that are the exception.

Lastly, once in the legal system everything will be looked a under a microscope. Maintenance, road conditions, training for all involved not just driving training. These are just a few of what will be scrutinized.

To the OP glad you and the others are coming out of this ok, for the most part. Best of luck and a quick recovery to all involved.
Thanks and this is the best way to break it down. As I mentioned a comment or two ago, if this occurred right now we’d have been going 45 tops, so almost half the speed limit was of that stretch. Just a bit unpleasant with the hard pack on the road in patches. But at the time it was 1340 and clear skies, dry road with a few small patches of snow under trees off the side but not on the asphalt. About a week before we got hit by our third winter of this winter season. As for cross sections, on the long straight where this occurred there are four “cross roads” if you will which are just side county roads meeting the highway. Clear line of sight at each for about 3/4 a mile. Yes I agree things could have been handled differently looking back and honestly I wish we had. You get it ingrained that you’ve done something a hundred or thousand times and it must be the right way or the only way, but it shouldn’t be that way. For the AAR one of my issues I see looking back was tunnel vision and having gotten too comfortable going that route. We should have slowed up before the county road intersections with the highway even though it’s not in our dept guidelines because that should have been just our gut feeling saying to be a bit more cautious. Also should have flipped vehicle positions with the engine leading since they had the air horn and siren and I was relying on lights. Communication through the whole thing was another flaw In what happened that I’ve been looking back at. How things could have played out differently with a little more time to have thought things out. Would those changes have changed the outcome? I don’t know. Do I look back and wish we had done those changes? Yes.
 

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Thanks and this is the best way to break it down. As I mentioned a comment or two ago, if this occurred right now we’d have been going 45 tops, so almost half the speed limit was of that stretch. Just a bit unpleasant with the hard pack on the road in patches. But at the time it was 1340 and clear skies, dry road with a few small patches of snow under trees off the side but not on the asphalt. About a week before we got hit by our third winter of this winter season. As for cross sections, on the long straight where this occurred there are four “cross roads” if you will which are just side county roads meeting the highway. Clear line of sight at each for about 3/4 a mile. Yes I agree things could have been handled differently looking back and honestly I wish we had. You get it ingrained that you’ve done something a hundred or thousand times and it must be the right way or the only way, but it shouldn’t be that way. For the AAR one of my issues I see looking back was tunnel vision and having gotten too comfortable going that route. We should have slowed up before the county road intersections with the highway even though it’s not in our dept guidelines because that should have been just our gut feeling saying to be a bit more cautious. Also should have flipped vehicle positions with the engine leading since they had the air horn and siren and I was relying on lights. Communication through the whole thing was another flaw In what happened that I’ve been looking back at. How things could have played out differently with a little more time to have thought things out. Would those changes have changed the outcome? I don’t know. Do I look back and wish we had done those changes? Yes.
Was not looking for you to respond, was more trying to defend you and point out there is a lot that is not know when reading it on the internet. I've been a vol. firefighter for 29 years. I get it. I have held every rank and asked and answered questions on both sides of the situation. Luckily, my only driving accidents were hitting a deer with an Engine and a guy running way over the yellow line and hitting my side mirror. It was just a broken mirror but I was halfway off the road to avoid a head on. I was lucky there was not a ditch in this area the ground was able to support the truck etc...
 
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Was not looking for you to respond, was more trying to defend you and point out there is a lot that is not know when reading it on the internet. I've been a vol. firefighter for 29 years. I get it. I have held every rank and asked and answered questions on both sides of the situation. Luckily, my only driving accidents were hitting a deer with an Engine and a guy running way over the yellow line and hitting my side mirror. It was just a broken mirror but I was halfway off the road to avoid a head on. I was lucky there was not a ditch in this area the ground was able to support the truck etc...
Yeah I get it but I wanted to get it all out there for anyone else asking questions. Volunteer county rural culture and methods are so vastly different from what I am used to in Wildland for the forest service. I still sometimes struggle to swap back and forth between forest service me and county rural me. The bat chief says he was the same and he learned to merge the two but it’s going to be a while yet. And sounds like you’ve been lucky so far besides those two scrapes.
 

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Sorry to hear about your accident, and as someone else said, you can't cure stupid. I will say this, When I was a firefighter and went through an emergency vehicle driving class, we were told that running code 3 does not give you the right of way (no matter what the law says). The law doesn't take into account the absolute stupidity of so many drivers. It means you are asking for the right of way. Please slow down no matter what because the patient or the fire will wait for you to get there. You and the class 6 may have been running too fast legally. Talk to the county lawyer. Remember the old saying - CYA.
 

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But I do understand. Been there and done that. Just hope everyone comes through it ok and it's a learning experience for everyone.
I don't get some of you guys , he posted many times the speed limit is 75 mph, and you don't believe it. I have never been there , so I will take his word for it.
This whole country other than the big cities is volunteer fire people, Some ladies as well.
3 people can ride in most of the fire trucks, what the hell is the rest to do , The chief will have his own 1/2 ton set up as well
 

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I don't get some of you guys , he posted many times the speed limit is 75 mph, and you don't believe it. I have never been there , so I will take his word for it.
This whole country other than the big cities is volunteer fire people, Some ladies as well.
3 people can ride in most of the fire trucks, what the hell is the rest to do , The chief will have his own 1/2 ton set up as well

Correct on all counts.
Oregon is pretty much the only state West of the Rockies that I'm aware of which doesn't do a 75mph limit on the freeways (Oregon keeps it to 65mph still, but nobody outside of the Willamette Valley corridor really pays attention to that.)

If you live in/on unincorporated county land, you're going to be served by a volunteer fire department (and even most of the -really- small towns are similarly rigged.)

The Chief gets his own rig because he's often one of the very few full-time employees of an RFPD, and in a wildfire he may need to move around anyway, whereas engines, tenders, tankers and etc generally move on a way different needs basis. Most volunteers use their own vehicles to get around, because vehicle cost/maintenance/etc is expensive. I think only the EMT on-call gets his/her own rig around here (here = Mist-Birkenfeld RFPD, Oregon), but that's because it's the ambulance.
 

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Correct, and the chiefs are volunteer as well, thou I think they do get paid expenses, gas, a cell phone, special land line , before cell phones, but they all work at a job, or look after kids.
 
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Correct, and the chiefs are volunteer as well, thou I think they do get paid expenses, gas, a cell phone, special land line , before cell phones, but they all work at a job, or look after kids.
Our county dept has three paid staff, the on duty Bat chief, and two administrators. I’m technically in charge of wildland fire response in the county because I’m qualified as a Division leader and task force leader through my work with the forest service, so that was a big reason I used my pickup as I had it set up. It had the radios I needed, a spot to keep a chainsaw and fuel for it, and a place to leave my bunker gear and wildland gear.
 

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I don't get some of you guys, he posted many times the speed limit is 75 mph.....l

Uh, how do you not yet know that most people are dumber than a Box of Rocks?
The Rest do not read what's actually before them
but are busy thinking about how to state their Righteous Indignation.

Darn few left with basic Intelligence.
Nice to meet another one.

My name is GoFishN.
Sadly, I see Stupid People, Everywhere.
 
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I don't get some of you guys , he posted many times the speed limit is 75 mph, and you don't believe it. I have never been there , so I will take his word for it.
This whole country other than the big cities is volunteer fire people, Some ladies as well.
3 people can ride in most of the fire trucks, what the hell is the rest to do , The chief will have his own 1/2 ton set up as well

Honestly miss it. Was a sold rig that lasted a long time, and got put through the wringer plenty.
0E41C08E-25E6-4BDA-A54A-13C87FE39F8E.jpeg057D20E2-5394-4D04-90FD-38DC84989E5A.jpeg
 

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in that picture, it seems that brush was stacked to burn, but it is a might windy for burning

East of my town, if you see flashing, rotating lights of any color,
If you are intelligent, you will move to the shoulder if it is possible.
 
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Forestry_Ridge

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in that picture, it seems that brush was stacked to burn, but it is a might windy for burning

East of my town, if you see flashing, rotating lights of any color,
If you are intelligent, you will move to the shoulder if it is possible.
Yeah that was a joint burn with IDL, and the forest service who I was working as a liaison with due to my employment with them. We had a contingency of twenty engines and burned a thousand piles on the Eagle Head fire burn scar. The wind made it sketchy but I knew we had engines staged nearby so I stayed to monitor while my burner moved on
 

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this is why i sort of do not agree with personal veh being allowed to used lights and siren.. It makes it very confusing for a person when they are used to seeing a emergency veh in its colors..

Glad everyone made it out of the accident..
Why it’s understood they are volunteers and I would pull over just like I do for delta or fire trucks.
 

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