steering shaft - header interference

Bandit517 · Feb 24, 2023

I'm trying to save myself from putting a nice dent in my cylinder 1 primary tube on my JBA longtube header. The steering shaft is hitting it. I have attacked the casting around the U-joint with a flap wheel and made it far less of an issue but it's still touching slightly. During my removing and grinding phase I found one of the caps puking a rusty dust and it seems to have a more bound up movement. So I planned on ordering a replacement. Before I buy another OE one and have to grind it down too, has anyone used the Borgeson 000953? How's the fitment with Longtubes compared to OE? Also, has anyone tried a 2500/3500 OE lower u joint on a 1500? Looks like the end closest to the rack is shorter which would move the Ujoint area forward and down from the header.

DILLIGAF · Feb 24, 2023

Its JBA fit and finish, You got to dent it. :hat:

Dont worry they will look like rusted crap within a couple of years anyways.

and after 5-6 years you'll have to pull them and fix welds... lol...
Signed JBA LT owner :dogpile:

Bandit517 · Feb 24, 2023

Why ya gotta tell me that? LOL I knew before buying the JBA weren't top tier headers. But I looked them over pretty thoroughly when they arrived and everything looked up to par. Just seems like maybe the cylinder 1 primary wasn't locked into the jib or something because it's not super tight to the rest of the tubes but is just far enough out to hit the steering shaft. The flap wheel did a great job giving clearance but there's just not quite enough to take away to give enough room for when the torque pulls on the motor mounts. So when turning and accelerating (at an intersection for example) the steering won't always return to center by itself because it'll catch on the steering shaft.

Wild one · Feb 24, 2023

Bandit517 said:
Why ya gotta tell me that? LOL I knew before buying the JBA weren't top tier headers. But I looked them over pretty thoroughly when they arrived and everything looked up to par. Just seems like maybe the cylinder 1 primary wasn't locked into the jib or something because it's not super tight to the rest of the tubes but is just far enough out to hit the steering shaft. The flap wheel did a great job giving clearance but there's just not quite enough to take away to give enough room for when the torque pulls on the motor mounts. So when turning and accelerating (at an intersection for example) the steering won't always return to center by itself because it'll catch on the steering shaft.

View attachment 514545

My JBA's are 9 years old and have been double wrapped their whole life,they're still in pretty good shape.Don't worry about denting them,you'd almost have to squash them flat before you'd notice any differance in power.Engine Masters did a test a few years back,and the primary tubes had to be almost flat before they started to notice a drop in horsepower. Lots of guys bad mouth JBA's,but they're not all that bad in my opinion,i have them on both the truck and wifes 6.4 Challenger and haven't had any issues with either set,so put them on and don't worry about it.Personally i'd wrap them though,you'll have less issues with knock sensors / wiring and hoses etc..You might also want to relocate the brake/fuel lines up a hole on the drivers side frame rail,and i'd reconmend using Remflex 6022 gaskets with them

chri5k · Feb 24, 2023

Being that close it looks like might also roast the lube and seals of that steering u-joint. Might be a good idea to add it to your maintenance checklist when doing oil changes.

Wild one · Feb 24, 2023

Bandit517 said:
Why ya gotta tell me that? LOL I knew before buying the JBA weren't top tier headers. But I looked them over pretty thoroughly when they arrived and everything looked up to par. Just seems like maybe the cylinder 1 primary wasn't locked into the jib or something because it's not super tight to the rest of the tubes but is just far enough out to hit the steering shaft. The flap wheel did a great job giving clearance but there's just not quite enough to take away to give enough room for when the torque pulls on the motor mounts. So when turning and accelerating (at an intersection for example) the steering won't always return to center by itself because it'll catch on the steering shaft.

View attachment 514545

You'll want a least a good fingers clearance between the knuckle and tube,otherwise it'll hit on a corner when you apply power and the motor rocks over on the motor mounts

Bandit517 · Feb 24, 2023

Wild one said:
My JBA's are 9 years old and have been double wrapped their whole life,they're still in pretty good shape.Don't worry about denting them,you'd almost have to squash them flat before you'd notice any differance in power.Engine Masters did a test a few years back,and the primary tubes had to be almost flat before they started to notice a drop in horsepower. Lots of guys bad mouth JBA's,but they're not all that bad in my opinion,i have them on both the truck and wifes 6.4 Challenger and haven't had any issues with either set,so put them on and don't worry about it.Personally i'd wrap them though,you'll have less issues with knock sensors / wiring and hoses etc..You might also want to relocate the brake/fuel lines up a hole on the drivers side frame rail,and i'd reconmend using Remflex 6022 gaskets with them

I remember that episode of Engine Masters. I just don't want to dent my header LOL

They're already installed with Remflex gaskets and ARP bolts. I don't think I'm going to remove them and wrap them. I got everything moved to safe areas and stuff. They lined up pretty nice considering all the hate they get. I'll see if I can get lucky and dent the one tube without removing the header.

Wild one · Feb 24, 2023

Bandit517 said:
I remember that episode of Engine Masters. I just don't want to dent my header LOL

They're already installed with Remflex gaskets and ARP bolts. I don't think I'm going to remove them and wrap them. I got everything moved to safe areas and stuff. They lined up pretty nice considering all the hate they get. I'll see if I can get lucky and dent the one tube without removing the header.

Pull the wheel well liner out,use a long drift and at least a 4lb sledge,and swat the hell out of it,i'd pull the knuckle out of the way to.I had to dimple mine a few times till it had enough clearance it wouldn't bind on a corner while accelerating.With the knuckle / steering shaft out of the way,you should be able to get a torch in there to heat it a bit,as the tubes aren't all that easy to dimple cold.

Jeepwalker · Feb 24, 2023

I was going to say, if you don't mind doing some fabbing, it 'might' be possible to remove the shaft from the truck, cut the lower shaft and weld on 1.25" length or so to get the U-joint up higher than the header (and reduce the upper shaft equal length ..assuming you ensure the U-joints won't bind). Then weld or clamp and aluminum heat shield piece onto the header near the shaft to keep heat off the U-joint. Just a thought. Otherwise you'll be cooking u-joints.

My experience with aftermarket intermediate shafts has been so so.

Bandit517 · Feb 24, 2023

Jeepwalker said:
I was going to say, if you don't mind doing some fabbing, it 'might' be possible to remove the shaft from the truck, cut the lower shaft and weld on 1.25" length or so to get the U-joint up higher than the header (and reduce the upper shaft equal length ..assuming you ensure the U-joints won't bind). Then weld or clamp and aluminum heat shield piece onto the header near the shaft to keep heat off the U-joint. Just a thought. Otherwise you'll be cooking u-joints.

My experience with aftermarket intermediate shafts has been so so.

That was actually another consideration. And after realizing I'm out of propane for my torch I'm going to cut and weld in a section of solid round that I have. Coincidently it's the correct thickness even. So it'll get all done tonight. I'll post my results later/in the morning.

Jeepwalker · Feb 24, 2023

Sounds good. And like I say, if you have (or get) a thin piece of aluminum sheeting like 18-20ga ...just a couple inches long in that region, ...you can fab it up so it stands off the header pipe near the shaft. You'd be amazed how much heat you can deflect back and keep the shaft from getting hot. You want to leave an air gap of at least 1/4" so air can flow between the header and AL sheet. All stuff you probably know....

Wild one · Feb 24, 2023

Bandit517 said:
That was actually another consideration. And after realizing I'm out of propane for my torch I'm going to cut and weld in a section of solid round that I have. Coincidently it's the correct thickness even. So it'll get all done tonight. I'll post my results later/in the morning.

Some guys have used the steering shaft extension for a body lift to move the knuckle farther up for more clearance

Bandit517 · Feb 25, 2023

After some measuring and brainstorming I decided not to "add" to the u joint, but "move" the u joint instead. I cut 1.25" out of the upper section, cut and welded the 1.25" into the lower section. So the knuckle of the u joint will be above the primary tube. Not my best fab work, but plenty good enough. Lined up the index so my steering wheel should still be straight. But even if it's off a smidge it won't matter since I plan to get an alignment done anyways. Keep in mind this is u joint isn't great, so I'm not concerned if it doesn't work perfectly since I plan on ordering a new one in the future. But if it does work, I know how to modify the new one before I put it in the truck, if not, it's time to dent a header.

I'll get it installed in a bit. Gonna let the dusting of paint cure a little longer.

Bandit517 · Feb 25, 2023

Flipped it both ways to see which was better. U joint above the header looks the have more clearance. But I'll know later today if it's enough or not. it definitely looks better already. Just not sure if it'll still hit when the motor rocks in the mounts.

Wild one · Feb 25, 2023

Bandit517 said:
Flipped it both ways to see which was better. U joint above the header looks the have more clearance. But I'll know later today if it's enough or not. it definitely looks better already. Just not sure if it'll still hit when the motor rocks in the mounts. View attachment 514589

Take it to an open parking lot and make a couple sharp turns while accelerating slightly,if it doesn't rub doing that you should be okay.On my 14 it took a good finger clearance between the header tube and the shaft/knuckle before it wouldn't bind up the steering shaft,but i didn't move the knuckle up like you did,just dented the primary till i had clearance

Bandit517 · Feb 25, 2023

Wild one said:
Take it to an open parking lot and make a couple sharp turns while accelerating slightly,if it doesn't rub doing that you should be okay.On my 14 it took a good finger clearance between the header tube and the shaft/knuckle before it wouldn't bind up the steering shaft,but i didn't move the knuckle up like you did,just dented the primary till i had clearance

I drove it home from work and never heard/felt it touch. But I didn't get to give it any moderate throttle because it snowed over night. But once I'm done with adding a glass pack to my exhaust I'll go for some testing.

Jeepwalker · Feb 25, 2023

Looks really good. Cast iron huh... Best I don't ask (and you don't say) what your welding process was. It's definitely further away from the heat. Try not to sit and idle the tk very long. Feel it for heat now and then to learn when and how quick it heats up.

You can always adjust the tow yourself too if you need/want. I do on my rigs. Then you can get the steering wheel dead nuts 'on the money' straight when yer going down the hwy. Make sure you tell the shop which does your alignment you want that wheel straight going down the road.

Cheers!!

hemihustlin · Feb 25, 2023

dont be shy to squirt some spray can lubricant (more lubricant than penetrating oil, but able to creep into the joint) generously into the joints while working/moving the joint (can be done while part is on vehicle, use a helper to turn the steering)
this will prolong the life of the joint

hell on my 06 when the bottom joint started to stiffen up I did this and it was perfect ever after!

Bandit517 · Feb 25, 2023

hemihustlin said:
dont be shy to squirt some spray can lubricant (more lubricant than penetrating oil, but able to creep into the joint) generously into the joints while working/moving the joint (can be done while part is on vehicle, use a helper to turn the steering)
this will prolong the life of the joint

hell on my 06 when the bottom joint started to stiffen up I did this and it was perfect ever after!

When I was doing my cam and header install I sat the u joint in a tub of oil to soak into the joint and worked it around. It's better, but still not perfect which is why I plan to get a new one anyways. This was a test process before cutting up a new shaft LOL

Jeepwalker · Feb 25, 2023

If you were able to buy decent borgeson ends you might be able to buy a rod and shorten it to the length you need. But be a little careful with Borgeson. A lot of their stuff is held on with set-screws and long term yer better off with the right fitting OEM splines. But if they had the right splined parts (and maybe they don IDK), it would be worth exploring.

steering shaft - header interference

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