'04 Ram 1500 P0301 (high mileage)

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JLaw

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So I am lookong for advice on my 230K mile Ram 1500 4.7L...flashing P0301. Same problem occured about 6 months ago and I replaced all spark plugs and the #1 ignition coil. Code cleared for a few months, but has come on and off randomly since then. Now that my vehicle inspection is due next month light is on 90% of the time.
Other info...
- Coolant mixing with oil (white sludge in the oil fill tube and under the oil fill cap) (head gasket leak, right?), I add about a quart of coolant every 3-4 months.
- Burns about 1 qt oil between changes, but has since I've owned it so not a new thing
- Starts easy and runs surprisingly well
- No overheating conditions have occurred
I know its high miles but I like the truck and dont want to buy another.
Knowing all that, where would I start to diagnose my P0301? I would hate to go through the time and expense of replacing head gaskets (yes they need done soon I know this) if its just a vacuum leak that I can fix to get inspection done until I can make time for head gaskets.
I am open to all input and suggestions, really do want to keep my ol' faithful truck running.
 
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EdGs

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Your leak is going to get worse, and if it goes too long, you could have a worse situation.

You might also see some white smoke, maybe more so when the engine is cold.

My '02 4.7 did this, and it got worse and worse, finally blew the upper rad hose, then it was really using coolant.

Oil fill tube and inside of valve covers looked like snot.

20211010_180730.jpg
Engine was sludged up pretty good.
20190330_155516(1).jpeg

Cylinder 2 on drivers side was getting the steam treatment.

20211002_065911.jpg
Oil looking crappy
20190330_151453.jpeg
Take care of it, as soon as possible, before it takes a giant sh*t on you.

Best of luck with your repairs.
 
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JLaw

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Well looks like Im doing head gaskets...at least. Pulled #1 & #3 plugs to see the difference, #1 plug had a pink hue on the tip thay goes into the combistion chamber. Low and behold when I look down into the cylinder with a flashlight I can see antifreeze in the cylinder on top of the piston. Swabbed with a q-tip to better see the color. Suppose I will have to do a tear down to see just how much money Im about to spend. Damn.
 

EdGs

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Yep, there's your misfire, and if you get enough coolant in there, and it hydrolocks, the sh*t will have hit the fan.

Get yourself a new timing set while you are at it. New head bolts, etc. There are service manuals online with all the proper torque specs and sequences, etc.

Oil pump, I am not sure. Perhaps someone else will chime in about this. I remember When I did the head gaskets in my '02, I had to raise the engine off the mounts to remove the oil pan an clean out the crud.

You have alot of work ahead of you, but it will be worth it. Take your time, and do it right.
 
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JLaw

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Yep, there's your misfire, and if you get enough coolant in there, and it hydrolocks, the sh*t will have hit the fan.

Get yourself a new timing set while you are at it. New head bolts, etc. There are service manuals online with all the proper torque specs and sequences, etc.

Oil pump, I am not sure. Perhaps someone else will chime in about this. I remember When I did the head gaskets in my '02, I had to raise the engine off the mounts to remove the oil pan an clean out the crud.

You have alot of work ahead of you, but it will be worth it. Take your time, and do it right.
I had already resigned myself to a new timing set also. Good info about possible oil pump and cleaning the crud out of the oil pan, I hadnt thought to do that. Thank you.
 

EdGs

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Here's a view of the front of my 4.7L after removing the timing set and drivers side cylinder head. Soaked the heads in mineral spirits, and cleaned the exposed areas as much as possible. The gunk was like jelly, it was so bad.
20190331_193435.jpeg
All clean, new timing set in place, timing components oiled, engine rotated several revs to double check.
20211001_185542.jpg
I bought a couple cases of cheap oil and several filters, and ran her just long enough to get full hot, then changed oil. Did this a couple times, then I changed it a couple more times after running it for a couple hundred miles. I know I wasn't able to get all the gunk out, hopefully this strategy helped.
 
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JLaw

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Now that is very clean and impressive!! I do have extra oil and 2 extra filters for at least one oil change to help clean up the engine after start up. Thats a good idea for sure.
I am more nervous about lining up the timing chains perfectly than anything else...last one I did was on a '78 Chevy small block some 20 years ago, two gears and one chain easy peasy.
 

EdGs

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Now that is very clean and impressive!! I do have extra oil and 2 extra filters for at least one oil change to help clean up the engine after start up. Thats a good idea for sure.
I am more nervous about lining up the timing chains perfectly than anything else...last one I did was on a '78 Chevy small block some 20 years ago, two gears and one chain easy peasy.
There is a tool that holds the chains on the idler gear. Very useful.

20211016_172014.jpg
There should be factory service manuals online for your MY. Follow the torque procedures. Head bolts are torque-to-yield, for example.

The timing chain tensioners are marked L and R and there is a shim plate under one of them IIRC. Take your time and don't get in a hurry, you will be fine.
 
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JLaw

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Good info on the tool, thank you sir.
Does anyone knoe on an '04 Ram 4.7L engine...is there a timing chain cover gasket or do you just use RTV to seal the cover? Weird question I know but my FelPro kit #TCS 46022 only includes the smaller gaskets and two tubes of grey RTV. None of the gaskets look big enough to cover the circumference of the timing cover.
 

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There is a tool that holds the chains on the idler gear. Very useful.

View attachment 474197
There should be factory service manuals online for your MY. Follow the torque procedures. Head bolts are torque-to-yield, for example.

The timing chain tensioners are marked L and R and there is a shim plate under one of them IIRC. Take your time and don't get in a hurry, you will be fine.
This tool is definitely worth it's weight.
 
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JLaw

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Well if that dont beat all. Heads got machines, torqued in well, getting it put back together and somehow or another my dang self managed to crack the head where the timing chain tensioner arm pin bolts into the head. Ugh. What now?? Seem most people Ive asked say change the head, a few say weld it. Dang it all. At a loss at the moment.
20211019_180637.jpg
 

EdGs

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Well, that sucks. I have NO idea if welding that will hold or not. Of course, the side that the tensioner arm is on has to stay flat.

Did that happen with a torque wrench? The torque specs for those pivot pins are not very high, IIRC. I don't have access to my manual to check at the moment.

I hope you get it sorted.
 
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JLaw

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Well, that sucks. I have NO idea if welding that will hold or not. Of course, the side that the tensioner arm is on has to stay flat.

Did that happen with a torque wrench? The torque specs for those pivot pins are not very high, IIRC. I don't have access to my manual to check at the moment.

I hope you get it sorted.
Yes sir it made me a bit upset. Torque spec was 250 in lbs I staged up and when I staged to 120 in lbs I heard PING...and that was all she wrote. A pretty low torque actually. I am not an auto mechanic, but I did chase the threads with a tap and clean the pin threads with a rag... passenger side pin torqued in fine. Only thing I can think I did wrong was I didnt blow the hole out with compressed air. Maybe debris got wedged, Im clueless otherwise. Was easy to spin by hand all tge way in until torque wrench was used.
Anyhoo live, cuss and learn. Ive got another head that Im cleaning up to put onto the truck. Will see how it goes...definitely be more vigilant about doing everything I can to prevent any issues.
 

EdGs

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So now you need another set of head bolts for that side.

I have seen cheaper click style torque wrenches where you dont hear the click, and then usually a broken bolt.

Wonder if it would be worth getting a new pivot bolt for that. Makes me think someting on or in the threads of either the bolt or hole (I really don't see how, though). Maybe was partially cracked to begin with, who knows?

When you pulled the heads off, were they all sludged up?

Hang in there.
 
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JLaw

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There was not any sludge in the heads no. Slightly "tarnished" in color if that makes sense. The pivot pin spins freely in the replacement head all the way, so I think Ill be ok. Torque wrench came to mind so I did borrow my neighbors much higher quality torque wrench tp finish the job. (Mine is admitedly the cheaper and older click style) Got replacement head installed and timing tension pivot arm and chains guides installed last night with no problems.
Tonight will be timing chain and triple check everything before installing timing cover and valve covers.
 

EdGs

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Nothing wrong with click style torque wrenches at all.

I have a couple cheaper ones that seem fine, but there were a couple times where the click was hard to hear (background noise, etc.)

I also had mine come off the torque setting and get set heavier, so I had to make sure they are locked in at the tension setting where they needed to be.

Additionally, I always set the torque to the minimum setting when I'm finished using them to keep tension off.
 
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