'05 3.7L Overheated & Seized - What to do next?

[Fast69Mopar]

Well, I have some good freakin' news; the new (replacement) wiring harness worked! I now have a running/driving truck with a 4.7L conversion. Really happy about that. I gotta admit though - I'm am utterly *perplexed* by what the issue really was between the two harnesses. Based on the pin-out diagrams, the *only* differences are the '05 has knock sensors and the '04 doesn't.

The new harness also corrected the issue with the gauges as well - all working and good to go.

Now the bad; which really isn't *that* bad - simply because now I am actually able to check the for them - is that I have several DTCs and a blinking ABS light that I'm going to need to sort out.

P0068 - MAP/MAF Throttle Position Correlation

• I think this is the reason that I'm getting a high-idle, about 2,000rpm

All four o2 sensor codes:

• P0135 - Bank 1, Sensor 1
• P0141 - Bank 1, Sensor 2
• P0155 - Bank 2, Sensor 1
• P0161 - Bank 2, Sensor 2

Honestly, I could use some help on these - I've never seen all four go at once before...

Then I have:

• P0175 - System too rich Bank 2, which is probably related to the P0068 code, I'd imagine.

All that said, I'm pretty damn ecstatic to have the truck running and driving. I even got it out on the road and the did the "seating of the rings" procedure, as per the Haynes manual (for what that's worth).

*Edit* I should note that I'm still running all four of the O2 sensors that came in the truck when equipped with the 3.7L. It hadn't occurred to me that they could be different from the 3.7L & the 4.7L or even between years until I started having the issues with the '05 harness/'04 PCM. Now I'm thinking it may, well cross reference the part no's tomorrow.

You would be thinking correctly that the oxygen sensors are different between the 3.7 and the 4.7.

If my memory serves me right the 3.7 oxygen sensors are 56029049AA for the upstream and 56028994AB.

Now that you have a 4.7 the upstream and downstream oxygen sensors should be 56028998AB.

 

[MayerMR]

You would be thinking correctly that the oxygen sensors are different between the 3.7 and the 4.7.

If my memory serves me right the 3.7 oxygen sensors are 56029049AA for the upstream and 56028994AB.

Now that you have a 4.7 the upstream and downstream oxygen sensors should be 56028998AB.

Just checked the numbers and you are correct - your memory seems to serve you quite well!

Now just out of complete curiosity - what the heck would be the difference between the four O2 sensors for two engines that are essentially the same (with 2 fewer/more cylinders)? Would the a/f mixture differ that much between the two? I'm not an engine tech/software guy, so forgive me if this seems a silly question.

And thanks again for confirming my thoughts!

S/F,

-Matt

 

[Fast69Mopar]

Just checked the numbers and you are correct - your memory seems to serve you quite well!

Now just out of complete curiosity - what the heck would be the difference between the two O2 sensors for two engines that are essentially the same (with 2 fewer/more cylinders)? Would the a/f mixture differ that much between the two? I'm not an engine tech/software guy, so forgive me if this seems a silly question.

And thanks again for confirming my thoughts!

S/F,

-Matt

Yes sir, the AFR is affected that much between the two different oxygen sensors. The resistance in the sensors themselves and the amount of precious metals used inside them greatly effects the AFR.

 

[MayerMR]

Yes sir, the AFR is affected that much between the two different oxygen sensors. The resistance in the sensors themselves and the amount of precious metals used inside them greatly effects the AFR.

That's very interesting. Honestly, I've never thought much about the technology behind O2 sensors, but your comments have me intrigued, so I'm going to have to learn myself up on them.

However, so the Plot Thickens, as they like to say...

Because of issue between the 2004 and 2005 harnesses, which I absolutely could not figure out, other than that the 2004 harness works and the 2005 harness most assuredly does not, I thought I'd take the time, before buying replacement O2 sensors, to just *verify* that the 56028998AB part numbers are correct for the 2004 trucks as well. And sure enough, they are DIFFERENT from the 2005 trucks. I cross-referenced on the Advance Auto Parts, O'Reilly's, and Autozone websites as well as on Amazon and Rockauto. The 56028998AB is not called out on the 2004 trucks. So I ended up going with four new Denso 234-4718 O2 sensors from Rockauto (almost half the price as anywhere else). They won't be here until Thursday, but that's ok. It's cold and rainy here until Thursday anyway.

 

[Fishstickz]

Well congrats on a successful engine swap! How much do you think this hurt your wallet?


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[MayerMR]

Well congrats on a successful engine swap! How much do you think this hurt your wallet?


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Well, all in so far, including the truck, I'm at $2,832; but I've not actually gotten to the body work yet, so it'll go up, but probably not past $3,500 total.

As far as the swap, knowing what I know now, I could have shaved some of the cost off, but all-in-all, it wasn't too expensive.

Expense Item
VS Compressor/Cylinder Hone $32.89
Rebuild Kit/Head Parts $370.81
RockAuto Parts $125.78
Plastigauge $8.19
Piston Ring Compressor $13.69
CMS - Valve Job $230.00
CMS - Block Prep $125.00
CMS - Piston Wrist Pin Replace $96.00
Denso Iridium Spark Plugs $25.97
Injector Service Kit $14.80
Replacement PCM/Center Console $50.00
Rod Bearing Set (Rebuild kit sent (2) main bearing sets) $68.19
Replacement Harness/Airbox/Gauges $200.00
Replacement C130 Connector $5
New O2 Sensors $118

Total $1,484.02

Honestly, it's really cheaper to buy a "bad" 4.7L engine and rebuild it completely than it is to buy a "good" used one (which is my area runs somewhere around $1300-1500) and just hope for the best. Especially with the issues these engines seem to have if maintenance isn't performed properly - which let's be honest, most people don't. Further adding to that point is that the paint inside the oil pain starts to come off and clogs the oil pick up. That alone can cause an engine to fail even if it's in otherwise nice condition.

By far, the hardest part, is the wiring issue. If I were to give anyone any piece of advice doing this in the future, I would say, just make sure the engine/transmission harness you are using matches the year of the PCM that you are replacing your V6 PCM with. That part was enough to make me pull my hair out.

 

[MayerMR]

Well more good news! The new oxygen sensors arrived today and they cleared the O2 codes. I also bought some MAF spray cleaner and sprayed it on the sensor, which cleaned a lot of the soot/dirt from it. I figured that would clear the code. And it did, for awhile. I took it on a short drive and it did pop back up for some reason. But boy did it drive better - a lot more power and more responsive.

When I got back though, it started doing something really weird - likely related to the P0068 code, but the throttle started jumping up and down over and over and wouldn't stop until I turned off the engine. See video:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/aRjanCn4at3uEZJx7

Since I had a still had a second MAF sensor from the V6, I took it out and compared the part numbers - they are the same, so I cleaned that one off and installed it in place of the first one. I haven't driven it with that one installed, but when I started it again, the throttle jump was gone.

I still have some issues though;

1) High-idle - when I installed the original harness, I just replaced the TPS with the one from the V6, thinking they were likely the same, but with different connectors - something Dodge would do. But that was just a guess, and perhaps a bad one. However, when I changed the harnesses out, I had the proper connector for the original (4.7) TPS, so I put it back in. I tell you that story, because I'm starting to wonder if that sensor is one that needs to be adjusted. If so, I would guess that when I reinstalled it, I probably didn't set it correctly - can someone confirm if this is correct? If so, how does one adjust it? It didn't appear to have oblong screw holes, so I assumed that it was just an install and go kind of thing, where the PCM calibrates it based on the position.

2) I have a small parasite draw - not a big one, but big enough that it dropped the battery voltage to 12.7 and it didn't have enough juice to start the truck until I put it on the charger for a few mins. This is just a guess, but I think it may be the radio. The radio is non-functional and while it lights up and powers on, it just displays random numbers. This evening it was just a displaying "30". No idea yet, but I'll need to do some testing to figure out where the draw is coming from.

• As an aside, and I don't know if this has anything to do with it, but when I turn the key on to AC (before start), I get this weird humming noise in the dash. It almost sounds like a fuel pump priming, but behind the radio. Another way to describe it would be the sound of a CD changer switching CDs - except, it only has a tape deck - no CD. It's very strange. But maybe it is related?

3) Lastly, that dang ABS light is still flashing. I even connected the neg and pos battery cables for ~60 mins while changing out the O2 sensors and it didn't clear it. Now I'm thinking I may need to do some other troubleshooting as I really don't know if the ABS was flashing even before the original motor took a dump. Any pointers on where I should start with this one?

Alright fellas, appreciate your assistance with this!

-Matt

 

[MayerMR]

Ahh, I think I may have figured out my high-idle issue - I did a search on high-idle issues with a 4.7 and it appears a leaking PCV hose may cause the high-idle condition. Well, I had not yet figured out the routing of the PCV, so it's just sitting there, open-ended. So yeah...duh. I'll try to get that hooked up tomorrow and see if that sorts out at least *that* issue.

 

[MayerMR]

Well, my ******** was right, the high-idle was caused by the open port in the rear of the intake that is meant to be attached to the PCV. What a COMPLETE and utter pain in the rear to get to though - I had to completely remove the intake to get to it. Pain in the butt. It did fix the issue though - I'm idling normally now.

Still have the ABS issue - but my new scanner arrived today and I was able to get into the ABS system with it and identify that I have a "VIN mismatch" code for the ABS unit. Why the ABS unit needs to match the VIN of the PCM is just simply beyond me, other than to make it harder to work on yourself. That said, I've reached out to the guy I got the PCM from and I think I'm going to get his module and swap it into my truck, so that should clear that last and final code.

I'm just left with the single remaining issue, which is the radio - which is now completely dead. No digits or anything anymore - she dead...apparently. Checked the fuse and it's not burned out. May just need to replace it. Based on the rest of this truck's state of maintenance, I'm guessing it may not have even worked before.

 

[Fishstickz]

Well, my ******** was right, the high-idle was caused by the open port in the rear of the intake that is meant to be attached to the PCV. What a COMPLETE and utter pain in the rear to get to though - I had to completely remove the intake to get to it. Pain in the butt. It did fix the issue though - I'm idling normally now.

Still have the ABS issue - but my new scanner arrived today and I was able to get into the ABS system with it and identify that I have a "VIN mismatch" code for the ABS unit. Why the ABS unit needs to match the VIN of the PCM is just simply beyond me, other than to make it harder to work on yourself. That said, I've reached out to the guy I got the PCM from and I think I'm going to get his module and swap it into my truck, so that should clear that last and final code.

I'm just left with the single remaining issue, which is the radio - which is now completely dead. No digits or anything anymore - she dead...apparently. Checked the fuse and it's not burned out. May just need to replace it. Based on the rest of this truck's state of maintenance, I'm guessing it may not have even worked before.

I 100% agree and have no clue who decided that the ABS module needed to know or store any info about the truck. Really does make everything a PITA

Sounds like you’ve got just about everything sorted out, honestly after looking over the V6->hemi swap thread vs. this thread it seems a 4.7 swap is easier than I expected for y’all early 3rd gens. Pretty sure that guy who hemi swapped his V6 had to replace just about everything


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[MayerMR]

You are 100% right, the guy I got the PCM/harness/etc from (who I am meeting tomorrow to get the ABS module) is having a hell of a time going from the 4.7 to the Hemi. He's got it running, but the truck has so many codes it's driving him nuts. The transmission is in limp mode, the ABS module from the donor truck has two additional brake lines and the front and rear axles apparently (not sure if this is true) need to be swapped so he can get the right gearing for the computer. Additionally, he went from a manual transfer case to an electronic one, so that's giving him he'll too. I am certainly happy I chose to just do the 4.7 swap. That said, as I'm getting the thing going and now I'm looking at the body work ahead of me, I'm less than excited. I'm going to have to swap both front quarter panels the passenger door, and I'm not even sure if I can save the bed or the driver's door either. Lots of work ahead of me...next time I'll make sure I pick a truck that doesn't have a completely messed up exterior - nostalgia or no, it wasn't the best candidate.