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2 way or 3 way door speakers?

Discussion in 'Audio & Electronics' started by FL-RAM, Sep 30, 2020.

  1. Atcer2018

    Atcer2018 Member

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    Sorry for all the questions. I am of the understanding that the factory wiring of the dash and front door speakers on the basic audio setup is such that the factory head unit sees the two pairs as two individual speakers. Meaning the left front door and dash as a single speaker and the right front door and dash as a single speaker. Since I’m using the Mopar/Kicker performance upgraded speakers I have front door mid bass woofers and component tweeters with a capacitor on the tweeters used as a pseudo crossover. Wouldn’t the Kicker see this as a coaxial speaker in the DSP mode?
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2020
  2. canadiankodiak700

    canadiankodiak700 Senior Member

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    It would, but it's also going to really throw time alignment off as the sound traveling to the microphone is come from 2 different locations for technically the same speaker.
    In your case with the upgraded woofer and tweeter, biamping those 2 fronts and not worrying about the rear is going to give you way better sound stage.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
     
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  3. Graygoose

    Graygoose Diplorable Crumb Collector Supporting Member

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    yes it could power them all, but you wouldn't have the DSP.
     
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  4. 89grand

    89grand Senior Member

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    The biggest issue with doing this is not just the eq like I mentioned, but mostly the time alignment as mentioned by canadiankodiac700. The reason why the Kicker Key is so useful is because it does auto eq and time alignment. If one doesn't take advantage of that, or uses it improperly, they may as well buy a different 4 channel amp that doesn't do what they Key does and save money in the process.

    The Key listens to each speaker it is powering (should only be door and dash, or front door rear door) with door and dash being the best option. It listens to each speaker to determine their distance from the listening position and the frequency response, then it calculates the correct time delay and eq for each speaker.

    If you treated the door and dash speakers as one, I'd imagine it would trigger an error and not complete the auto eq/ta, but if it didn't, it wouldn't sound good at all, because the door and dash speakers are obviously in two drastically different locations. You could probably treat a mid and tweeter both in the a-pillar, or mid in the dash tweeter in the a-pillar as one speaker since they are close together, say in a 3 way front setup, with the mid and tweeter on the same channel and a passive crossover between them, but that's about the only case where 6 speakers could be seen as 4.

    In a nutshell, your system would perform best bi-amped with the amp running the door and dash speakers, and the rear speakers either run off the radio, or with a separate 2 channel amp.
     
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  5. Atcer2018

    Atcer2018 Member

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    Thank you 89grand. Your explanation clarified what I was looking for. I get it now!
     
  6. Atcer2018

    Atcer2018 Member

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    So since there are quite a few folks on here that have a much more expansive understanding of car audio than me can someone offer a suggestion on a good four channel amp that is small like the Key without DSP and has readily available T harnesses for semi plug and play installation on our Rams with the 8.4? I don’t want to cut factory harnesses or run new wiring as I am more than satisfied with the sound quality of the 8.4 with the Mopar/Kicker performance upgraded speakers I just want more volume.
     
  7. Mleads310

    Mleads310 Member

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    I'm curious how would you go about tuning the key with the following:.
    3-1/2" mid ranges in dash
    6x9 or 6.5" components in the front doors
    But 6x9/6.5" components come with tweeters crossed over...... ( Tweeter in this case would be placed within an inch or so of the door speaker if that makes any difference)

    Would you need to disconnect the tweeter while letting the key do it's tuning? I'm guessing the key would see the dash mid range and tune that accordingly, but when it came to the door speaker it would detect a 6..5" (being the tweeter is crossed over after the power inputs of the 6.5") and it would be confused that it's also detecting highs that only a tweeter could produce.....does that make any sense?
     
  8. 89grand

    89grand Senior Member

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    If you want the system exactly as is, but with just an amp, and no subwoofer or any other tuning this would be pretty easy.

    I'd get this t-harness, it's the same one I'm using, it has a power and ground wire that you wouldn't use now, but it's there (it's not for an amp). You'd simply wire the speaker wires from the radio side to the amps inputs, using a speaker wire to RCA plug then from the amps outputs to the other end of the harness that would connect to the factory speaker wiring:

    https://netaudio.com/product/2013-18-dodge-ram-radio-t-harness-2/

    You could still use the Kicker Key, you just wouldn't use the microphone and run the auto setup. You can use it as a standard 4 channel amp. This way, if you decided later that you wanted the sound better, you could rewire it like I'm doing mine with the radio running the rear speakers and the door and dash bi-amped and run the auto setup then.
     
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  9. 89grand

    89grand Senior Member

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    The Key can work 2 ways, when bi-amping the front. It either tunes to a woofer in the door and a tweeter in the dash, or a woofer in the door and a coaxial/wide band in the dash. It sets the crossover point at 3.2khz to both the woofer in the door and tweeter in the dash, then does it's normal tuning.

    If you have a coxial/wide band in the dash it sets the crossover at 640hz in the door and 320hz in the dash, then does it's tuning. So a coaxial in the door or tweeter in the door would basically be tuned out. I wouldn't try connecting the tweeter after the fact

    What are you actually running in the dash, it's is a true midrange? If I know exactly what you have I can probably figure out a way to use it.
     
  10. Mleads310

    Mleads310 Member

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    Right now I have the jblgx302 in the dash, stock front door mids, infinity kappa 3 way rear doors and p2d4 for a sub, but after reading your audio overhaul thread I'm contemplating on the following: key 200 to bi-amp a set of either morel CCWR254 2-1/2" wide range or infinity kappa perfect 300m 3-1/2" mid range in the dash. And for the front doors kicker 47KSS6504 6-1/2" components , crossover and with 1" external tweeter.
     

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